unsocial

I'm no electronics expert or anything, but isn't it odd that his amps are blowing but the fuses are fine. I thought that was the point of the fuses to "be the first line of defense" against an electrical problem to protect the system and vehicle, and blow the fuses before the system?

Jasdip

Ya, that's what I thought they're suppose to do too...but if the fuses aren't blowing and the amps are, what does that indicate??

christmaspie

Technically the fuse under the hood is designed to protect the power wire going to the amp. If power ever shorts to ground, the fuse will blow near the battery and a fire will NOT ensue.

The fuses on the amplifier are supposed to protect the amp itself. I'll be honest in that I've been a little confused on this problem from the beginning. I have never had an amplifier continue to blow and be replaced and continue to blow and be replaced. Have an amp go bad once, sure that's fine. You swap it out and never have the problem again. I can't even remember if we've covered this or not but are the fuse(s) on the amp blowing??

I don't want to be a dick or sound like I know what's going on but I still don't get the 2 four gauges into one. How could that be beneficial? You know what I mean? It's not like you'll get any extra current flow through 15 feet of 4AWG when only the one foot before is equivalent to 1/0AWG. So my thing is if they're doing that what the hell else is going on in this install. We need more info, pics of the install, etc. I realized the amp isn't there now but how about the connection to ground, the unconnected wiring where the amp would be might tell us quite a bit.

christmaspie

OK, so I see the fuses on the amp have never had a problem. So what happens when the amp "blows"? Do you lose all sound, is there smoke, a ton of heat?

electric130

iTrader: (44)

there is no benefit. the single 4ga is still the bottle neck. you could have 100 4ga wires into 1 and you'd still only have the capacity of a single 4ga wire. it's simple physics.

the only reason to do a 2 to 1 would be to do 2 4ga's into a single 1/0. and the only reason for that would be that you could only get ahold of 4ga fuse holders and were desperate to get the system going until you could get a 1/0 fuse holder. IMO, take out the second 4ga and just run 1 all the way.

another question i have is are the fuses in the amp the correct value?

christmaspie

Ooh it also looks like you've got two 80A fuses in those fuseholders. Which means there is a total of 160A of current protection on a circuit that can't draw more than 80. Maybe this is why we're losing the amp before a fuse??

electric130

iTrader: (44)

unless he's got a 160A fuse on the amp itself, the amp fuse should still protect the amp if he's got the right size installed. and a single 4ga wire will take 135A.

christmaspie

key word = should
As I was getting at in earlier posts I don't think we know enough about what is "blown" with the amp to diagnose any further.

Sure but the amplifier has an 80A fuse on it. So wouldn't it make more sense to use two 40A fuses in those two 4 AWG wires rather than two 80A?

electric130

iTrader: (44)

it would make more sense to not have 2 fuse holders in the first place, but that's besides the point. i'd say take one set of fuse and wire out all together and just have one. or at least, just take the fuse out of one holder and run only 1 80A fuse.

christmaspie

yup, x2

electric130

iTrader: (44)

is it just me, or does the engine to chassis ground appear to be bigger than the battery to chassis ground? the battey to chassis almost looks like 8ga from the pic. hard to tell though.

Jasdip

The original setup had just one 4 gauge wire running from the battery's positive to the amp with a single fuse (80A i THINK, which i don't remmeber ever blowing out), after a couple amps blowing out, they changed it to a circuit breaker in there instead of the fuse and the circuit breaker would "blow" every now and then and they told me to just reset it (I think they put this in after i put in a larger amp but i'm not sure)....after a few more amps had blown, they decided to change it to this setup...the fuses on the amps are the correct size fuses and they never blow...

Each time the amp "blows" out, it still has output (it's not completely dead); however, it puts out random noises and sounds like its going to damage the subs if it keeps going...the volume of the noise is not consistant with the volume that the deck is at nor does it play the sound it is suppose to...usually when it blows out, i can smell an electrical burning kinda smell and a few times there has been smoke as well (there probably was smoke almost everytime, but i didn't see any maybe beacause i didn't look at it right away while driving)... One time when I had the Xenon 1200.1 amp, the guys at Audio Video Unlimited (where I got everything from ) showed me the inside of the amp and there were parts that were melted...

This time when the Tantrum 1200.1 amp blew out...when the guy at AVU played music (it would make weird sounds again), and he pounded on the amp with his hand, it would make a thump sound from the subs each time he hit it...i dunno if that helps to determine anything...

My amps use to be sandwiched between the box and the back seats, but after the first coulple of amps, i got them to move the box back a bit for better air flow...and even after that, i usually kept my back seats down anyways..so the last few times it blew, my seats were down; therefore, air flow wouldn't be an issue...

The wire that is connected to the battery's negative terminal is a stock wire and was never upgraded (i think that should be the ground wire), but the engine to ground has been upgraded as the picture shows..

I can try to take some pics of where the amp is suppose to be and try to find the grounds for it and post those pics up tomorrow....thanks a lot for all the help guys!

JMUCivic03

Well, I would follow the advice of the two gurus (elec and pie) and use a multi meter to test everything. If things look good, I would try getting rid of the cap. Aside from my general hatred of caps, they are in most cases (99%) not needed and just another strain on the electrical system. That being said, it could, by some small chance, be your head unit if you are running RCA cables for the audio signal. I have never actually witnessed or heard of RCA outputs from a HU causing an amp to fry, but it is possible. Maybe there is some type of surge in the output voltage of your head unit's RCAs that is causing the input on your amp to burn itself. Ive seen amps with defective inputs play harsh sounds and do other weird things. I dont know my way around the inside of an amp well enough to tell you exactly what you need to look for but one way to test if the HU is bad is to simply swap the HU with the factory one or another aftermarket and see if the problem persists. I know its not exactly the most feasible answer, but if all else fails and those aholes at ignorance-unlimited refuse to solve the real problem...then it might be a good idea.

Jasdip

I'm gonna try to do the impedence check on all the voice coils and at the amp side tomrrow if I can get a hold a meter from my friend...

It would be impossible for me to try the amp with a different head unit since its already sent in for repair...plus once amp is already damaged by the RCA connection like you say, it wouldn't work with a different head unit anyways right?

And just for the record, I have a Pioneer Premiere DEH-P8MP head unit...i highly doubt it has anything to do with the head unit though..

JMUCivic03

Dont get me wrong, pioneers are great head units...I am a pioneer man myself. However, you could have what I like to refer to as a bad apple. It could just be a defective unit or maybe the outputs went bad overtime as can happen with electronics. I was simply suggesting that if everything checks out ok with your subs/wiring and you have been through several different amps/amp repairs, then it is probably not any of those things. Barring a problem with your alternator (which would probably be causing other problems aside from just blowing amps) then I would say it would be your head unit. Also, usually when an amp fries because of the power source, it tends not to play any sounds what so ever because it usually causes the amp not to be able to recieve any power what-so-ever. When something else goes wrong inside an amp, such as the input connections or problems with the control *****/circuitry, you can get weird noises or popping, etc.
This may be completly unrelated but I know for a fact that pioneer head units have always had problems with "noise" due to some stupid problem with the ground or one of the fuses in the HU or something....its a common problem and as far as I know, easily fixable. It might be worth googleing or asking if anyone here has had such a problem.

JMUCivic03

Sorry for the confusion about this as well, but I was saying if you got the amp back and it fried again, then try a new HU when you get your next amp back again...if they still refuse to diagnose the real problem. As I said, this is a rather roundabout way to try and fix your problem, but if the store isnt will to help really, and you dont know anyone that can help you on a technical level, then such methods may be your only course of action.

electric130

iTrader: (44)

okay, no offense, but that's just retarded! you're running big 4ga wire everywhere for this and that, and you still have the crappy stock ground wire on the battery? that's a serious bottleneck! that engine ground means nothing for your stereo system essentially. if you only upgrade 1 wire, it should have been the battery to chassis wire.

and what they did with 2 fuses is dangerous for your equipment. fuses are supposed to blow if something isn't right. so now, if something goes wrong, one fuse blows, you're giving the problem a second chance to hit your equipment and do more damage. i'd take out one of the fuses and run a single 80A fuse.

unsocial

My advice....take it somewhere else. These "professionals" that installed your system know less about it than you do.

Jasdip

Hey guys, I got my hands on a multimeter and tested the resistance on the connection...Also, my amp should be reinstalled on Friday so I can do tests with it after that..

I tested all the voice coils on the subs and I got a reading of 2ohms...I even checked the reading at where the amp is suppose to be (checked the wires) and the reading is 2ohms down there as well:| That can't be the problem...Is there something that I should check after I install the amp back in like the resistance while the subs are producing output or is that not possible?

Also, I looked for where the amp is grounded; however, the ground wire just goes down underneath my rear seats and dissapears...I know how to take out the back parts of the rear seats but not the bottom part that you sit on, does it just lift out after?

mneuls

nope, you can't check the resistance of the subs while they are going, it messes with the ohm-meter and gives a very inaccurate reading (an ohmeter is actually an ammeter that measures the current through any given item at a set dc voltage, and uses th power triangle to get the resistance rating. (voltage/current=resistance))

if you introduce a different power source, it throws off the readings big time. and could potentially damage the meter. What you want to do, if you have a half decent digital multimeter that has a "max" setting on it is test the voltage of your rca's you just turn the meter to ac volts and push the max button, and it shows the max voltage reading since you pushed the button. turn your sub as high as it will go with the deck and check the voltage. set your amp to that particular voltage. it's ok to set the voltage on the amp a little lower, but if you have 8 volt pre-outs coming off your deck, and your amp is set to .2 volts, you are gonna have trouble.

also you may want to test the voltage of the power coming into your amp when your car is running, check the voltage to the chassy, not the ground on your amp. at idle it should be 14 volts-ish. get a buddy to step on the gas petal and rev it up, your voltage should stay pretty much the same. if it goes up more than one volt or so, you might want to take a look at your alternator and your voltage regulator. (i'm not sure if our cars have them, but I guess they must. please don't shame me if there is no such thing on a civic) you may want to crank your subs to get the alternator to kick in to high mode when your car is revved. and you may want to test from the ground to the positive right at your amp while it is running. the lower voltage reading you get, the crappier the ground you have on your amp, ideally you would get 14v, but if you get less like 12 or 10, you definitly have a grounding problem.

you shouldn't need a ho alternator, i'm running 1350W off the stock one with the stock battery and no cap. I have no problems. (except the dimming lights) a ho alternator would be nice though.

there is a 10mm bolt just to the left of the righ-hand seatbelt clip-in then the bottom of the back seat just pulls out.

wheww, i'm done.

Jasdip

I'll will do all those tests once I get the amp installed and post the results...thanks for ur time in typing all that!