Rep Power: 290

I just installed a set of Infinity Reference 6012i's in my front doors. (detailed DIY coming soon with tons of pics.) they sound awesome compared to the stock, but i'm not satisfied. when i drive, my left leg is pretty much up against the door panel and blocking the speaker. if i move my leg out, the highs are much clearer. i know my only solution to fix this is a set of components.

I was looking at the Infinity Reference 6010CS's and putting the 6012's in the rear deck. i have an Aiwa MP3 HU that puts out 52Wx4. i don't really want to run a seperate amp to drive the components though due to the hassle of installing a second amp and running wires everywhere plus the added cost of the additional amp and wiring. the HU drives the 6012's decent and i'm thinking it would be fine for the components. i guess my main question is will the HU be able to drive these well enough to get good sound out of them? anyone been in this situation before? if i go the amp route, i'd need to upgrade all my amp power wires as well. plus my HU only has one set of pre-outs. so what do you think?

 
Rep Power: 0

Since I just bought a new audio system I did a lot of research so I could fill you in somewhat but I am by no means an expert.

Basically speakers in the rear deck are a waste IF you have a subwoofer in the trunk (I am guessing since you already have an amp somewhere in your system). Since the diaphragm in the rear deck is open to the trunk the sound pressure waves from the subwoofer will ruin their sound quality. You should set your fade to full front. So really you'd be wasting those 6010i's.

If I were you I would amp your components. Apparently they sound quality will have a substantial improvement and I think it you would see a more noticeable difference then out of the 6010cs's non-amped. Also with an amp you could run a high-pass filter and avoid running any bass. The money saved on more speakers could go towards an amp.

Your HU not having a second set of pre-outs is not an issue. If you bought a second amp you could just find one with an audio out and daisy chain it to your second amp. An even better and simpler option (one which I am doing) would be to buy a single amp that could power your whole system. I have a 4-channel Hifonics (4x170W) amp. I bridged two channels to power my subwoofer (340W total) and then I still have 2 channels to power my front components. Then you wouldnt have to hassle with running many more wires and a distribution block and etc... But I am not sure what you are running for subs so this might not be feasible because you need a lot more power. Hope that helps.

 
Rep Power: 262

You don't want to run components off of a deck.

 
Rep Power: 290

sub is currently a 12" kicker comp in a sealed box. it's ran off a kenwood 2 channel amp i got for free when my brother in law got rid of his system. (previously is was on an smaller alpine) speaking of which, i forgot i had that alpine still! with the 6012's in the doors, it still seems like the majority of the sound comes from the rear speakers with the fade set to neutral. It's been about 3 weeks that i've had the 6012's so i don't think best buy would let me take them back. (or would they christmaspie?) i hate to waste the 6012's which is why i was thinking of putting them in the rear deck.

dynamat used to make these bowl looking things to go on the back of speakers. i was thinking of maybe using those inside the trunk to help with the pressure from the sub, but i can't find them. i just looked all over dynamat's website. anyone know what i'm talking about? would those help?

so if best buy won't take back the 6012's, you still think it's a waste to put them in the rear deck and get new components up front (i would amp the components)? or should i just leave the rear speakers stock, buy components and amp them and sell the 6012's?

 
Rep Power: 262

30 day return policy so you will probably be right in there.

Sounds like my car, stock speakers that play only when someone sits in the rear seat. A lot of people are big fans of 'rear fill' but I'm not one of them. And if you hurry in to your local best buy you might be able to just upgrade and save some $$$. Check out the Alpine Type R components while you're there too. You may prefer them.

 
Rep Power: 0

Okay so here is how I see it. Try to return the 6020i's right away and get components instead. (then you really have nothing to lose)

If you can't I personally think it's a waste to put them in the rear deck. The subs will ruin quality to a point where you might as well have cheapo Honda speakers for rear fill. If you need additional confirmation post on caraudioforum.com and ask about speakers in the rear deck - this is what they told me, and I have no personal experience with this. I think you will see a better improvement from amping the 6010i's then from buying the 6010cs's. Either way if you get cs's they should probably be amped. So I'd try to find a 4-channel amp that bridged could power your sub, I'm hoping its a DVC 2 Ohm's each? If it's still not good enough then get the cs's (provided you couldn't exchange for them). Just my 2-cents.

 
Rep Power: 290

i just checked and i bought them Jan 23, so I'm good. I'll take them back tomorrow (got the game and some beer to attend to today )


i just checked BB's website and they're not showing any alpine components. are there some in the store that's not on the website?

 
Rep Power: 290

the sub is a SVC 12" Kicker Comp. i'm not a heavy bass listener, but i like good sound, so it's enough for me. besides, my hearing is already getting bad enough from working around jets so long!

 
Rep Power: 290

thanks to both of you. +1 rep for each!!!

 
Rep Power: 811

as a general rule, factory deck and even aftermarket cant drive speakers the way it should. not enough power. so if youre not gonna amp them, dont get new speakers. they will sound nowhere near their full potential just running off a deck. amps are cheap, theres nothing wrong with getting a quality 4 channel amp for around $200 or less.

 
Rep Power: 290

i think i'm gonna amp the 6012's and see how i like them first before i go and spend another $100 to get the components. especially since I've got an extra Alpine amp laying around not being used. just need to go buy another amp kit.

christmaspie, i stopped by one best buy today and they were out of the Alpine components you mentioned. i'm going to try 2 more tomorrow. hopefully one of them will have them.

 
Rep Power: 290

the Kenwood driving the sub is 180W x 1 RMS at 4 ohms. the kicker comps are 150w RMS. i only have the amp at 1/3 of the gain, so i think i'm good there. the alpine i have is 50W x 2 at 4 ohms. the 6012's are 50w RMS max, so that would also be a good match. the Alpine type R's are 70w RMS, so i think the alpine amp could still drive them well enough.

 
Rep Power: 0

Wow the Kicker is only 150W RMS? That seems low...

But anyway yeah the point is that you amp them decently, you don't really need to meet the RMS value. I'd read up on the components though, I don't know if the Alpine's are going to be much better then the Infinity's.

 
Rep Power: 811

if you amp the speakers you have now, you can run separate tweeters off deck power. makes a world of difference. thats what i have, amped 2-way speakers and deck powered tweeters.

 
Rep Power: 290

you can see the specs of the comp's here.
http://www.kicker.com/06/tech-suppor...0d01%20Web.pdf
that's half the reason i got them. one was that i could drive them good with the amp i had, the other was that it was only $100 for 2 of them from Circuit city.

the alpines sounded good. they were pretty close to the infinity's in the store. the infinity's are $210 right now i think and the alpine's are on sale for $170. i've found the alpine's for $140 shipped online too. so i don't know. i need to decide soon before i can't return the infinity's.

 
Rep Power: 290

i looked on CC's website and they only have polk and kicker tweeters. both are $100 a pair. at that price, it would be cheaper to return the infinity's and buy the alpine set. decisions...decisions....

 
Rep Power: 0

Ok, this sounds like Deja vu to me, I have the Infinity 6010 components up front and did not have them amped at first. Trust me, you don't want to run them without an amp. I also have the 6x9 3 way infinities in the rear, and a Kicker L7 15" sub. I would highly recommend buying an amp if you do decide to get the components of any kind. The amp will definintely bring out clarity and precision in the components, otherwise, they will simply sound way too sharp, they will be muddy at higher volumes, and the bass will distort terribly. Another thing, you don't have to go overkill on the 4 way amp! Buy one off of ebay for $150 like the Kicker ZX 350.4 and you won't be dissatisfied! I promise that amp will more than power all 4 speakers with precision control. I simply have a cheap *** (and weak at that) Jenson and it still sounds great. I will upgrade to that Kicker soon because I have too much road noise (and trust me, its coming from the amp).

Another thing, if you want to remain economical, just keep the ones you have now and dont get the components, cuz you really need an amp for them. Also, installing another amp was difficult for me because of lack of space, so consider everything before investing. . Also, the components were a little more difficult to install because of the remote crossover and the tweeters. If anymore questions just ask away

 
Rep Power: 0

Oh, another thing, just my opinion, but I think most retailers off of ebay have better support than best buy in my experience. I have had a lot a good experiences off of ebay, just be sure to get a good seller with a high feedback rating.

 
Rep Power: 811

there are infinity tweeters, check crutchfield.com i think its $80 pair

 
Rep Power: 0

My input is pretty simple... do what sounds right to you. I have had a ton of people ask me how much power I'm pushing through my subs and then drop their jaw when I tell them 200W between the two. They are rated for 600W RMS and 1000W MAX so why not more? I don't want that much bass. Why did I spend almost $300 on each sub if I'm not gonna use them to the full potential? They sound the best no matter what style of music I listen to, ex. Rap, Rock, Heavy Metal, Techno, etc... And I don't have to change any of my stereo settings like bass or fade or any of the built in 10 band EQ settings the head unit has to offer. For my door speakers I had a set Fuel'D 6 1/2's and they sounded great at high volume but on a daily basis they were too "muffled". So i went to a local car audio dealer and had him listen to them to make sure it wasn't just me. He agreed and showed me the Pioneer's that I have now. On my '88 HB my options were kinda limited due to the window crank location and the low profile that I needed to fit in the door. I'd hate to have you go and spend more money for someone elses ideas and still not be happy when you listen to it.... Remember in the end it's your ears that make the ultimate decision, listen to them. If you have any questions I'll do the best I can to help. -Mike

 
Rep Power: 290

i know what you're saying. the hard part is knowing what things will sound like in the car. you can sit in the store and compare stuff all day, but the real test is in the car. i have neither the time or money to keep swapping sets in and out of my car when the best buy is 30 minutes away. what you described with the Fuel'd you had is a little of what i have. at low volume, the 6012's seem a little muffled due to my leg being in the way. if i move my leg, they're clear. at high volume, they're clear regardless. that's why i was thinking of getting some components. of course, i don't know if i amp the 6012's, it might get rid of this problem.

 
Rep Power: 0

Or it may just amplify the problem...LOL sorry that just slipped out. Well I can say that I am pleased with Low Profile Pioneers I have in my car and in comparison to the subs in the back they sound great. I also have 2 8" mid-range woofers with horn tweeters in the back to keep up with the over tones of the bass it works out extremely well. I have had people swear that I'm running alot more power than I really am and actually say I'm lying when I tell them it's only 200W. I guess when you spend the money on quality you don't need to have as much quantity... -Mike

 
Rep Power: 244

Sounds like you're talking about speaker baffles.

 
Rep Power: 290

went to go get the alpine's but they won't fit. the mounting depth is 2.75" according to the box. even with a .75" spacer, i've only got 2.5" before the speaker will hit the window. i don't want to do any cutting and i think if i make the spacer any bigger the door panel won't go on. so i think i may have to stick with the 6012's and get seperate tweeters. i looked at the Rockford components and they said 3" depth. they didn't have the infinity's in stock, so i don't know what they are. too bad cause they're on sale for $141 too.

 
Rep Power: 262

By my math that will fit, it will be tight though. The 5 1/4" MB Quarts I have once sat so close that when you rolled the window down you'd hear a little clink noise. After spacing it out a bit it worked fine though.

Too bad about those infinities not being in stock, damn BBY!

 
Rep Power: 290

clearance between the panel and window is 1.75". so 1.75+.75=2.5" the alpine's are 2.75 so they won't clear the window at all.

i'm going to check the other BB in town tomorrow. according to Infinity's website, the 6010cs's are 2-1/16" deep, so they'll fit. that's an awesome price too, so i'm hoping i can score them tomorrow.

 
Rep Power: 262

Word, missed the fact the spacer was already included in your depth calculation. You can't go too far out either because you will hit the door panel (as I think you noted earlier.)

 
Rep Power: 290

yep and yep.

on a different subject, will dynamating the doors help with sound all that much? i'd like to, it's just expensive. i know people say it cuts down on road noise too. i'd like to do the whole interior, but it would cost thousands probably.

 
Rep Power: 0

Ok, FYI, as I said earlier, I have the Infinity components and I can tell you how they sound in the car if you were wondering (04 Civic Ex).
Overall, they are definitely on the brighter end of the spectrum if you know what I mean. The tweeters are very crisp, and to be honest, almost too crisp for me. For example, in some rap songs with them turned up loud, the "s" in words is very sharp. However, they reproduce much of the highs with great clarity. The 6.5 inch woofers are very good at producing mid range with precision, but don't expect $500 Boston Acoustic sound. Overall I am very happy with their sound, but also, don't expect a lot of bass from these speakers, they are only 6.5 inches, if you want to feel anything, you gotta have a sub.

One other thing that I noticed is that the speakers seemed to get better with a little time, is this usual with most components? I was just wondering. Hope this helps in your decision.

 
Rep Power: 0

Ok just read the dynamat thing and here is my story.
I bought 100 sq. feet of Fatmat off of ebay and did the entire interior of my car, with two layers on the doors and three layers on the floor to elimintate as much road noise as possible.

Results: First off, it did not make as much of a difference as i thought. While it did decrease road noise, I really didn't hear the bass in the vehicle that much better (but, I do have old tires and replaced the old mirrors with M3's which have a lot more road noise, so, a definitive answer isn't possible from my end.) People say that it really increases bass response: my opinion, it decreases the destructive interference from outside sources and allows the bass to be heard more easily. If you are to do anything with sound deadener, I would only do the doors because that seemed to eliminate more road noise than anything, even more so than the floor in my case.
Installer Difficulty: I would give it a 7 out of 10 on difficulty, not because it was so technically hard, but because it takes a lot of time! If you were to do your doors, and you had experience with taking the doors off, with cutting the mats and installing them, I would give you about 5 hours to do a quality job for both, but realistically, you would spend ~ 8-9 hours of down to earth hard work. And if you decide to do the whole car, which I don't think I would do again if i had the choice, it would take about 20-30 hours, after removing the entire interior and having to get a few new pieces after you have broken some, its almost inevitable unless you have done it before (eg, flimsy window switches that get stuck between the doors when you close them). And it wouldn't cost thousands unless you had someone else do it for you, I did it with about $150 and a lot of extra time. (Fatmat 100 sq feet off of Ebay, and I needed a little extra cuz I put too many layers on).

So, I would only recommend doing the doors, you will need ~25 square feet for 1-2 layers in the door ( I believe, you may want to check that number though.)