Alternator?
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Alternator?
Well my ex is about 6months old running a big ole Kicker 700.5. i figure I should start looking for a better alternator soon 'cause the factory one will get weaker right? Any Suggestions?
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Rep Power: 0 Final plans for 18months out on the ICE is set right at 1000-11000rms actually. I'd also be interested to know how to step up to a higher voltage? Does this invlove the whole Electr. Sys. or can you do an A/V loop or what?
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by luvvegas777
start with an optima yellow top
start with an optima yellow top
Thank You! I've measured like 3 times and still put off the purchase of a battery for fear it would'nt fit.Know anything about Gel-Cell? My boss uses them on his big-ole-deep sea fishing boat and swears by them.
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Rep Power: 0 you can also get the smaller version made for honda's on i think it's
www.optimabatterystore.com
the NEW Yellow Top 51rda
The NEW yellow top for Hondas, other
We are the First to Offer this NEW Model from OPTIMA! SC51RA: 500 Minimum Cold Crank Amps 625 Cranking Amps Reserve capcity 70 minutes @ 25 27.6 # 9.205" long 4.989" wide 8.937" height This will fit the Civics and ALL cars with the Group 51 BCI batteries!!!! Yellow Top w/grey case -- This battery his the (=) posituve post on the right hand side with the terminals near/close to you. DEEP CYCLE <-- The Optima SC51RDA fits most Honda and Acura vehicles requiring the 51 group size battery
www.optimabatterystore.com
the NEW Yellow Top 51rda
The NEW yellow top for Hondas, other
We are the First to Offer this NEW Model from OPTIMA! SC51RA: 500 Minimum Cold Crank Amps 625 Cranking Amps Reserve capcity 70 minutes @ 25 27.6 # 9.205" long 4.989" wide 8.937" height This will fit the Civics and ALL cars with the Group 51 BCI batteries!!!! Yellow Top w/grey case -- This battery his the (=) posituve post on the right hand side with the terminals near/close to you. DEEP CYCLE <-- The Optima SC51RDA fits most Honda and Acura vehicles requiring the 51 group size battery
Yup, i'm an A$$hole.
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Rep Power: 330 A deep cycle battery (yellow top) is really only necessary if you are gonna be running the stereo with the car off, a redtop would be better (stronger starting battery). As far as a 700 watt amp weakening your alternator, I wouldent worry about it. We have members running almost 3k watts on stock electricals with no problems. I'm running 2k watts and I have a stock battery and alternator - engine - battery wiring.
Save some $$, leave it OEM, you shouldent have any problems.
Save some $$, leave it OEM, you shouldent have any problems.
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Rep Power: 308 Originally posted by Mystic3030
A deep cycle battery (yellow top) is really only necessary if you are gonna be running the stereo with the car off, a redtop would be better (stronger starting battery). As far as a 700 watt amp weakening your alternator, I wouldent worry about it. We have members running almost 3k watts on stock electricals with no problems. I'm running 2k watts and I have a stock battery and alternator - engine - battery wiring.
Save some $$, leave it OEM, you shouldent have any problems.
A deep cycle battery (yellow top) is really only necessary if you are gonna be running the stereo with the car off, a redtop would be better (stronger starting battery). As far as a 700 watt amp weakening your alternator, I wouldent worry about it. We have members running almost 3k watts on stock electricals with no problems. I'm running 2k watts and I have a stock battery and alternator - engine - battery wiring.
Save some $$, leave it OEM, you shouldent have any problems.
Whimpy. Anyway. . . bottom line is, the more power you're kicking out from your alternator, the happier your sound system (and the rest of your car's electrical) will be.
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Rep Power: 339 all of this is unneccesary........
if youve got money to burn, start at the alternator.
but your stock electrical system will carry you and your system just fine, including your future plans
if youve got money to burn, start at the alternator.
but your stock electrical system will carry you and your system just fine, including your future plans
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Rep Power: 308 Originally posted by WhiteRabbit
all of this is unneccesary........
if youve got money to burn, start at the alternator.
but your stock electrical system will carry you and your system just fine, including your future plans
all of this is unneccesary........
if youve got money to burn, start at the alternator.
but your stock electrical system will carry you and your system just fine, including your future plans
Again, this is all dependent on how much power you're drawing from your engine.
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Rep Power: 0 Ohms Law Calculator
Ohm's Law & DC Power
Ohm's Law
E = I * R
I = E / R
R = E / I
where E = voltage in volts, I = current in amps, and R = resistance in ohms
DC Power
P = E * I
P = (E ** 2) / R
P= (I ** 2) * R
where P = power in watts
lets say p=2000w
e=14volts, so we need I, which is current
doing the math, I (current in amps) comes out to 142 amps
our alternators don't do that
Ohm's Law & DC Power
Ohm's Law
E = I * R
I = E / R
R = E / I
where E = voltage in volts, I = current in amps, and R = resistance in ohms
DC Power
P = E * I
P = (E ** 2) / R
P= (I ** 2) * R
where P = power in watts
lets say p=2000w
e=14volts, so we need I, which is current
doing the math, I (current in amps) comes out to 142 amps
our alternators don't do that
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Rep Power: 0 Originally posted by Mystic3030
lol, whats your point luvvegas?
lol, whats your point luvvegas?
with the yellow top it has sat for 5 and started right up no prob.
i used to have a 97 civic with 2 orion red hcca amps a 225 and a 250. killed the alt in a day.
so hearing people with "stock" alts and wiring with 2000 watts
i'd find some wood to knock on
here's some
Last edited by luvvegas777; Jul 2, 2003 at 01:29 AM.
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Rep Power: 339 you forgot to multiply by the duty cycle factor, music isnt always drawing the max power an amplifier is capable of producing.
and thats how we can get away with (so richard clark says) 4000 rms of class D power on stock electricals, even a 70 amp alternaotr, and be fine.
i believe him, becuase i have nealy that much current draw in my car on a stock electrical system, and i have had no problems. A friend was kind enough to give me a 2 farad capacitor to play with, when I experimented with that, only bass test tones could get the voltage to drop below 14 volts.
but music could never sustain the current draws neccesary to tax the stock electrical system enough to cause problems.
but lets do some real math! we'll start with your equations, they are absolutley correct! now lets expand upon them. we will use my own stereo as the example. lets start with some assumptions to help us along:
assumption #1: class a/b = 50% efficient
assumption #2: class D = 80% efficient
assumption #3: listening to rock music, music duty cycle is 30%
assumption #4: stock electrical system
assumption #5: my powerbase
assumption #6: tuning estimated at 50% gain
we will start with the powerbase: 1350 rms of class a/b power, and 1400 rms (estimated) of class d power. we then divide by the efficiency, because lower efficiency will draw MORE current that necesary to produce power. so we are left with a total of 4450 theoretical watts.
now we shall say that is the maximum current producing capability. but if the amplifiers are only at 50% gain, then they are only running to half their capabilities. so thats 2225 watts of power, theoretically
but with a duty cycle of music at 30%, which I would say is reasonable for rock and rool, that cuts us down to 668 watts of theoretical power.
so how does the whole thing work out? im sure you understand, luvvegas, im laying it out for everyone else, amplifiers arent 100% efficient. So, say, a 2000 watt amplifier actually draws MORE current than, say, 142 amps to produce its power.
but thats FULL power, like a bass burp. realistically, music is never drawing the full power (i said music!) an amplifier is capable of producing. this is what we call teh duty cucle of music. so, realistically, the amplifier is never pulling max draw, or if it is, its only for an instant of time (boom!!.......boom!....... boom boom!......) see?
finally, yoru amplifier has a gain control, and if its tuned for less than the amplifier is fully capable of, the music can be recorded at 0 dB (theoretical loudest a recording can be with no clipping) and the amplifier STILL wont draw max power.
so after all this math, we determined that the electrical system actually sees enough current draw, on average, to produce 668 reall watts of power. even though the amplifiers are rated to be ABLE to produce 2200 rms of class a/b power, and another 1500 of class D power, the way they are tuned, loaded, and used, can affect how much power they draw.
which, in our case, floowing ohms law, at 14.4 volts, is a little over 46 amps. which a stock 70 amp alternator, A/C or not, cruisecontrol or not, heat on or not, can definitely handle just fine!
this is obviously just one example, and requires the acceptance of several assumptions, but it does prove my point that your alternator ALONE can sustain (at least possibly can) high power! if you want to refute the current draw, or the duty cycle, the type of music, go ahead! the excess current draw spills over onto the battery. and the battery cna handle rather long period sof time of low current draw, when you have a 70 amp alternator constantly feeding power into it!
long enough to always be able to sustain even 2000 rms of class D action, even 1200 rms of class a/b action, rap or heavy bass music, on stock electricals.
and thats how we can get away with (so richard clark says) 4000 rms of class D power on stock electricals, even a 70 amp alternaotr, and be fine.
i believe him, becuase i have nealy that much current draw in my car on a stock electrical system, and i have had no problems. A friend was kind enough to give me a 2 farad capacitor to play with, when I experimented with that, only bass test tones could get the voltage to drop below 14 volts.
but music could never sustain the current draws neccesary to tax the stock electrical system enough to cause problems.
but lets do some real math! we'll start with your equations, they are absolutley correct! now lets expand upon them. we will use my own stereo as the example. lets start with some assumptions to help us along:
assumption #1: class a/b = 50% efficient
assumption #2: class D = 80% efficient
assumption #3: listening to rock music, music duty cycle is 30%
assumption #4: stock electrical system
assumption #5: my powerbase
assumption #6: tuning estimated at 50% gain
we will start with the powerbase: 1350 rms of class a/b power, and 1400 rms (estimated) of class d power. we then divide by the efficiency, because lower efficiency will draw MORE current that necesary to produce power. so we are left with a total of 4450 theoretical watts.
now we shall say that is the maximum current producing capability. but if the amplifiers are only at 50% gain, then they are only running to half their capabilities. so thats 2225 watts of power, theoretically
but with a duty cycle of music at 30%, which I would say is reasonable for rock and rool, that cuts us down to 668 watts of theoretical power.
so how does the whole thing work out? im sure you understand, luvvegas, im laying it out for everyone else, amplifiers arent 100% efficient. So, say, a 2000 watt amplifier actually draws MORE current than, say, 142 amps to produce its power.
but thats FULL power, like a bass burp. realistically, music is never drawing the full power (i said music!) an amplifier is capable of producing. this is what we call teh duty cucle of music. so, realistically, the amplifier is never pulling max draw, or if it is, its only for an instant of time (boom!!.......boom!....... boom boom!......) see?
finally, yoru amplifier has a gain control, and if its tuned for less than the amplifier is fully capable of, the music can be recorded at 0 dB (theoretical loudest a recording can be with no clipping) and the amplifier STILL wont draw max power.
so after all this math, we determined that the electrical system actually sees enough current draw, on average, to produce 668 reall watts of power. even though the amplifiers are rated to be ABLE to produce 2200 rms of class a/b power, and another 1500 of class D power, the way they are tuned, loaded, and used, can affect how much power they draw.
which, in our case, floowing ohms law, at 14.4 volts, is a little over 46 amps. which a stock 70 amp alternator, A/C or not, cruisecontrol or not, heat on or not, can definitely handle just fine!
this is obviously just one example, and requires the acceptance of several assumptions, but it does prove my point that your alternator ALONE can sustain (at least possibly can) high power! if you want to refute the current draw, or the duty cycle, the type of music, go ahead! the excess current draw spills over onto the battery. and the battery cna handle rather long period sof time of low current draw, when you have a 70 amp alternator constantly feeding power into it!
long enough to always be able to sustain even 2000 rms of class D action, even 1200 rms of class a/b action, rap or heavy bass music, on stock electricals.
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Rep Power: 0 Wow! Thanks for the Brain Flush..I have'nt seen ohms law typed in years. Anyways, the way i see it is that the alternator is a consumable/replaceable part, it will wear with age, and pounding on it for 2hours a day everyday will have an effect. So when my headlights start blinkin' (which has'nt begun yet in my '03, my '97ex made it about 18months before showing signs) i will start with my alternator.
Original Question = Who makes a decent alternator?
Thank you all for your input on this thread & I hope not to seem like I'm blowing off any input! I just fear being stranded.
Original Question = Who makes a decent alternator?
Thank you all for your input on this thread & I hope not to seem like I'm blowing off any input! I just fear being stranded.
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From: familycar's Moms Room
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Originally posted by WhiteRabbit
you forgot to multiply by the duty cycle factor, music isnt always drawing the max power an amplifier is capable of producing.
and thats how we can get away with (so richard clark says) 4000 rms of class D power on stock electricals, even a 70 amp alternaotr, and be fine.
i believe him, becuase i have nealy that much current draw in my car on a stock electrical system, and i have had no problems. A friend was kind enough to give me a 2 farad capacitor to play with, when I experimented with that, only bass test tones could get the voltage to drop below 14 volts.
but music could never sustain the current draws neccesary to tax the stock electrical system enough to cause problems.
but lets do some real math! we'll start with your equations, they are absolutley correct! now lets expand upon them. we will use my own stereo as the example. lets start with some assumptions to help us along:
assumption #1: class a/b = 50% efficient
assumption #2: class D = 80% efficient
assumption #3: listening to rock music, music duty cycle is 30%
assumption #4: stock electrical system
assumption #5: my powerbase
assumption #6: tuning estimated at 50% gain
we will start with the powerbase: 1350 rms of class a/b power, and 1400 rms (estimated) of class d power. we then divide by the efficiency, because lower efficiency will draw MORE current that necesary to produce power. so we are left with a total of 4450 theoretical watts.
now we shall say that is the maximum current producing capability. but if the amplifiers are only at 50% gain, then they are only running to half their capabilities. so thats 2225 watts of power, theoretically
but with a duty cycle of music at 30%, which I would say is reasonable for rock and rool, that cuts us down to 668 watts of theoretical power.
so how does the whole thing work out? im sure you understand, luvvegas, im laying it out for everyone else, amplifiers arent 100% efficient. So, say, a 2000 watt amplifier actually draws MORE current than, say, 142 amps to produce its power.
but thats FULL power, like a bass burp. realistically, music is never drawing the full power (i said music!) an amplifier is capable of producing. this is what we call teh duty cucle of music. so, realistically, the amplifier is never pulling max draw, or if it is, its only for an instant of time (boom!!.......boom!....... boom boom!......) see?
finally, yoru amplifier has a gain control, and if its tuned for less than the amplifier is fully capable of, the music can be recorded at 0 dB (theoretical loudest a recording can be with no clipping) and the amplifier STILL wont draw max power.
so after all this math, we determined that the electrical system actually sees enough current draw, on average, to produce 668 reall watts of power. even though the amplifiers are rated to be ABLE to produce 2200 rms of class a/b power, and another 1500 of class D power, the way they are tuned, loaded, and used, can affect how much power they draw.
which, in our case, floowing ohms law, at 14.4 volts, is a little over 46 amps. which a stock 70 amp alternator, A/C or not, cruisecontrol or not, heat on or not, can definitely handle just fine!
this is obviously just one example, and requires the acceptance of several assumptions, but it does prove my point that your alternator ALONE can sustain (at least possibly can) high power! if you want to refute the current draw, or the duty cycle, the type of music, go ahead! the excess current draw spills over onto the battery. and the battery cna handle rather long period sof time of low current draw, when you have a 70 amp alternator constantly feeding power into it!
long enough to always be able to sustain even 2000 rms of class D action, even 1200 rms of class a/b action, rap or heavy bass music, on stock electricals.
you forgot to multiply by the duty cycle factor, music isnt always drawing the max power an amplifier is capable of producing.
and thats how we can get away with (so richard clark says) 4000 rms of class D power on stock electricals, even a 70 amp alternaotr, and be fine.
i believe him, becuase i have nealy that much current draw in my car on a stock electrical system, and i have had no problems. A friend was kind enough to give me a 2 farad capacitor to play with, when I experimented with that, only bass test tones could get the voltage to drop below 14 volts.
but music could never sustain the current draws neccesary to tax the stock electrical system enough to cause problems.
but lets do some real math! we'll start with your equations, they are absolutley correct! now lets expand upon them. we will use my own stereo as the example. lets start with some assumptions to help us along:
assumption #1: class a/b = 50% efficient
assumption #2: class D = 80% efficient
assumption #3: listening to rock music, music duty cycle is 30%
assumption #4: stock electrical system
assumption #5: my powerbase
assumption #6: tuning estimated at 50% gain
we will start with the powerbase: 1350 rms of class a/b power, and 1400 rms (estimated) of class d power. we then divide by the efficiency, because lower efficiency will draw MORE current that necesary to produce power. so we are left with a total of 4450 theoretical watts.
now we shall say that is the maximum current producing capability. but if the amplifiers are only at 50% gain, then they are only running to half their capabilities. so thats 2225 watts of power, theoretically
but with a duty cycle of music at 30%, which I would say is reasonable for rock and rool, that cuts us down to 668 watts of theoretical power.
so how does the whole thing work out? im sure you understand, luvvegas, im laying it out for everyone else, amplifiers arent 100% efficient. So, say, a 2000 watt amplifier actually draws MORE current than, say, 142 amps to produce its power.
but thats FULL power, like a bass burp. realistically, music is never drawing the full power (i said music!) an amplifier is capable of producing. this is what we call teh duty cucle of music. so, realistically, the amplifier is never pulling max draw, or if it is, its only for an instant of time (boom!!.......boom!....... boom boom!......) see?
finally, yoru amplifier has a gain control, and if its tuned for less than the amplifier is fully capable of, the music can be recorded at 0 dB (theoretical loudest a recording can be with no clipping) and the amplifier STILL wont draw max power.
so after all this math, we determined that the electrical system actually sees enough current draw, on average, to produce 668 reall watts of power. even though the amplifiers are rated to be ABLE to produce 2200 rms of class a/b power, and another 1500 of class D power, the way they are tuned, loaded, and used, can affect how much power they draw.
which, in our case, floowing ohms law, at 14.4 volts, is a little over 46 amps. which a stock 70 amp alternator, A/C or not, cruisecontrol or not, heat on or not, can definitely handle just fine!
this is obviously just one example, and requires the acceptance of several assumptions, but it does prove my point that your alternator ALONE can sustain (at least possibly can) high power! if you want to refute the current draw, or the duty cycle, the type of music, go ahead! the excess current draw spills over onto the battery. and the battery cna handle rather long period sof time of low current draw, when you have a 70 amp alternator constantly feeding power into it!
long enough to always be able to sustain even 2000 rms of class D action, even 1200 rms of class a/b action, rap or heavy bass music, on stock electricals.
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Rep Power: 339 nice post *****, dizzle, you have confirmed yet again my opinion, rapidly turning fact, that you are useless to this forum.
tcostello, ludlamtheory would be a GREAT source to find out standard sources for new alternators, he has done much research in this area, and a PM could get you the info real quick.
tcostello, ludlamtheory would be a GREAT source to find out standard sources for new alternators, he has done much research in this area, and a PM could get you the info real quick.
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From: Zulu Alpha Tango Foxtrot
Rep Power: 313 Don't forget about the fact that if you are sitting with the car idling that other loads exist (such as radiator fan, headlights, A/C). Radiator fan draws lots 'o current! I have two amps, 400W and 300W Orions - driving 4 JL's, and 1 300W orion sub. When its cranked, and the bass hits - I can see the voltage dip to and/or below 12 volts when the radiator fan kicks in. This is not good - a sign that the alternator cannot keep up with the demand, causing a voltage sag.
Regardless of what people say about the "stock" alternator being good enough - its usually the best place to start. When searching the board I've seen decent prices (about $200) or so. For piece of mind knowing that my alternator has the reserve capacity to output what I need when I need is good enough for me to upgrade.
Except - I don't run my system cranked, sitting idle. Only when tweaking/testing do I do that. So I'm fine without it. But I'd say more power to you if you upgrade (literally!
)
Regardless of what people say about the "stock" alternator being good enough - its usually the best place to start. When searching the board I've seen decent prices (about $200) or so. For piece of mind knowing that my alternator has the reserve capacity to output what I need when I need is good enough for me to upgrade.
Except - I don't run my system cranked, sitting idle. Only when tweaking/testing do I do that. So I'm fine without it. But I'd say more power to you if you upgrade (literally!
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Rep Power: 339 the gel cell battery isnt a standard lead acid battery that uses liquid, it uses a gel as the dialectric, the advantage is in mounting, no spills to worry about.
its usually not a consideration, one way or the other, if you are using standard mounting techniques. (upright)
its usually not a consideration, one way or the other, if you are using standard mounting techniques. (upright)
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Rep Power: 0 In Dizzle's defense WR you do make a lot of assumptions about how people run their systems.
for example:assumption #6: tuning estimated at 50% gain
how many people with 1000watt amps have their gain halfway?
where did you come up with 30% duty cycle for rock music?
lets say people listen to rap, hip-hop, or bass mechanic, i'd guess the duty cycle is 75%
still with me?
now: assumption #1: class a/b = 50% efficient
assumption #2: class D = 80% efficient
we will start with the powerbase: 1350 rms of class a/b power, and 1400 rms (estimated) of class d power. we then divide by the efficiency, because lower efficiency will draw MORE current that necesary to produce power. so we are left with a total of 4450 theoretical watts.
now we shall say that is the maximum current producing capability. but if the amplifiers are only at 50% gain, then they are only running to half their capabilities. so thats 2225 watts of power, theoretically
so assumptions 1 and 2 are about efficiency
so where does the rest go if it is only 50%-80% efficient.........HEAT
but still it is DRAWING 100% power needed to make 50-80% efficiency.
just like a car has for example 200 flywheel hp but 160 at the wheels
where did the HP go? it still affects gas mileage the same, even though you only get 160 hp from a car rated at 200hp, so 100% power draw
so lets "ASSUME" people with amps that pound turn their gains more than 50%, lets "assume" they play bass mechanic, lets assume bass mechanic has a"Duty cycle" of 75% ..... cause that bass keeps hitting
so i'll be fair and pick 3000watts, a number between both of yours of 4450 and 2225
3000watts multiplied by .75=2250watts gains turned 100% (no one in the real world turns their gains at 50% unless they were trying to hide alt whine).
so lets pretend at no matter what type of situation that the voltage is always 14, so 2250 divided by 14= 160 amps required (peak) to run these types of systems.
i'm not trying to get in a pissing contest but.......
it sounds like saying i dropped in a h22, turbo set at 20 psi, 100 shot of nos, top and bottom built, full exhaust, and by the way, the stock tranny has no PROBLEM keeping up.
hey if it works for you then i'm happy
for example:assumption #6: tuning estimated at 50% gain
how many people with 1000watt amps have their gain halfway?
where did you come up with 30% duty cycle for rock music?
lets say people listen to rap, hip-hop, or bass mechanic, i'd guess the duty cycle is 75%
still with me?
now: assumption #1: class a/b = 50% efficient
assumption #2: class D = 80% efficient
we will start with the powerbase: 1350 rms of class a/b power, and 1400 rms (estimated) of class d power. we then divide by the efficiency, because lower efficiency will draw MORE current that necesary to produce power. so we are left with a total of 4450 theoretical watts.
now we shall say that is the maximum current producing capability. but if the amplifiers are only at 50% gain, then they are only running to half their capabilities. so thats 2225 watts of power, theoretically
so assumptions 1 and 2 are about efficiency
so where does the rest go if it is only 50%-80% efficient.........HEAT
but still it is DRAWING 100% power needed to make 50-80% efficiency.
just like a car has for example 200 flywheel hp but 160 at the wheels
where did the HP go? it still affects gas mileage the same, even though you only get 160 hp from a car rated at 200hp, so 100% power draw
so lets "ASSUME" people with amps that pound turn their gains more than 50%, lets "assume" they play bass mechanic, lets assume bass mechanic has a"Duty cycle" of 75% ..... cause that bass keeps hitting
so i'll be fair and pick 3000watts, a number between both of yours of 4450 and 2225
3000watts multiplied by .75=2250watts gains turned 100% (no one in the real world turns their gains at 50% unless they were trying to hide alt whine).
so lets pretend at no matter what type of situation that the voltage is always 14, so 2250 divided by 14= 160 amps required (peak) to run these types of systems.
i'm not trying to get in a pissing contest but.......
it sounds like saying i dropped in a h22, turbo set at 20 psi, 100 shot of nos, top and bottom built, full exhaust, and by the way, the stock tranny has no PROBLEM keeping up.
hey if it works for you then i'm happy
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Rep Power: 339 it was an overkill example, luv, but i can agree that the duty cycle of music is far higher than 30%, i can also agree that many run their amplifers at higher than half gain.
it even makes sense, too! everytime the bass hits, the lights dim? thats a sign that you are drawing over 70 amps of current from the stock alternator! so you are indeed right, completely right!
and your h22a analogy is almost a really good one! but the transmission does not have a backup when it fails! our alternators have the battery to fall back on! so for the small instants of time when we overdraw the alternator, the battery picks up the rest
all this i assume you and dizzle already know, but do your lights stay permanently down? of course, if you listen to bass mechanic at high volumes constantly, they do! but for realistic listening, can you honestly say that you listen to bass mechanic at high volumes at 2 killowatt power levels for long periods of time? my ears would give out!
and after the three minute song, theres time for the battery to charge back up a bit....
but i did take efficiency into account, if you follow my numbers more carefully, i really did! thats how i got such a high number (4450) from amplifiers rated for much less actuall power production!
you guys dont have to take my word for it at all tho. feel free to ask richard clark directly. or any member here running 2 killowatt amps on stock electricals. ill bet only a small percentage of them have charging problems.....
it even makes sense, too! everytime the bass hits, the lights dim? thats a sign that you are drawing over 70 amps of current from the stock alternator! so you are indeed right, completely right!
and your h22a analogy is almost a really good one! but the transmission does not have a backup when it fails! our alternators have the battery to fall back on! so for the small instants of time when we overdraw the alternator, the battery picks up the rest
all this i assume you and dizzle already know, but do your lights stay permanently down? of course, if you listen to bass mechanic at high volumes constantly, they do! but for realistic listening, can you honestly say that you listen to bass mechanic at high volumes at 2 killowatt power levels for long periods of time? my ears would give out!
and after the three minute song, theres time for the battery to charge back up a bit....
but i did take efficiency into account, if you follow my numbers more carefully, i really did! thats how i got such a high number (4450) from amplifiers rated for much less actuall power production!
you guys dont have to take my word for it at all tho. feel free to ask richard clark directly. or any member here running 2 killowatt amps on stock electricals. ill bet only a small percentage of them have charging problems.....
Registered!!
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,774
Likes: 0
From: Washington State
Rep Power: 308 Well, I can speak on behalf of those running at least 1800w RMS. . . It's only when I've got the system cranked (like 75%+ volume) that I notice the problem with my voltage dropping. . . but I suppose that's because I'm at the competition level with my setup, and I drive it HARD at shows.
If you're like me, and you want to be prepared for MOST everything MOST of the time, a HO alt is a good idea. But as WR has said, for the vast majority of us, our stock electrical should be just fine.
If you're like me, and you want to be prepared for MOST everything MOST of the time, a HO alt is a good idea. But as WR has said, for the vast majority of us, our stock electrical should be just fine.
i boogie for the raindrops
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 4,497
Likes: 1
From: Jackson, Mississippi
Rep Power: 0 i can say ive run near the 2 kw mark, i can also say NO problems. i can also get more spevific on batteries.
1 - yellow top batteries, great invention, deep cycleable and such, only draw back, much slower response time than a standard non deep cycle battery. basically, in those clutch moments, it will not provide you with what you need instantly.
2 - alternators, i have an alternator post floating around int he archive where i outlined prices ont hem, look it up, i wrote them all up, pro's and cons, amp ability, everything.
3 - capacitors. in theory, theyre great for transient response and dimming, although all they are is a bandaid unless youre running a ridiculous amount of farads. RF sells a 50 and 100 farad cap, and personally, thats the only cap I would ever put in my car.
4 - REMEMBER TO UPGRADE YOUR DAMN STOCK POWER AND GROUND WIRES!!! that right there might actually have you stop seeing the dimming.
5 - the debate on which upgrade is better is a very debateable one, but we'll start with my training. the MECP folks believe that the order in which to upgrade your electricals is
a - upgrade stock power wires and such
b - capacitor
c - batteries
d - alternator
lets look at this logically. it makes sense to upgrade your wires so the power can get there easier
capacitor makes no sense to me. capacitor can give you charge, but only for a fraction of a second, if youre listening to goodie mob or 3-6 mafia or bass mekanik or jungle/drum n bass where theres no interruptions in the bass notes, then youre screwed. amp draws the caps power, then the cap is drawing to try and charge itself WHILE the amp is drawing to get its power WHILE the battery is drawing, all from the alternator.
now batteries, sure they can store the power, but what happens when you start draining them. they then become a load, something else drawing from your alternator. basically only truly truly efective when youre running something like a bank of batteries.
now the blessed alternator. this is the only thing that MAKES power in your car as opposed to storing it. if youre makign enough power, then what else have you got to worry about.
my final though here is that cars electrical systems are not perfect. they fluctuate even stock. turn your radio off and roll down all 4 windows at once, it dims your lights. also the alternator isnt always spinning at its perfect speed. youve also got factors like temperature.
I can give you my experience, near 2k rms with no probs. whiterabbit can say the same but with going way over 2k rms. both of us using just upgraded powers and grounds, and me only using a redtop because the stock battery is just dinky.
1 - yellow top batteries, great invention, deep cycleable and such, only draw back, much slower response time than a standard non deep cycle battery. basically, in those clutch moments, it will not provide you with what you need instantly.
2 - alternators, i have an alternator post floating around int he archive where i outlined prices ont hem, look it up, i wrote them all up, pro's and cons, amp ability, everything.
3 - capacitors. in theory, theyre great for transient response and dimming, although all they are is a bandaid unless youre running a ridiculous amount of farads. RF sells a 50 and 100 farad cap, and personally, thats the only cap I would ever put in my car.
4 - REMEMBER TO UPGRADE YOUR DAMN STOCK POWER AND GROUND WIRES!!! that right there might actually have you stop seeing the dimming.
5 - the debate on which upgrade is better is a very debateable one, but we'll start with my training. the MECP folks believe that the order in which to upgrade your electricals is
a - upgrade stock power wires and such
b - capacitor
c - batteries
d - alternator
lets look at this logically. it makes sense to upgrade your wires so the power can get there easier
capacitor makes no sense to me. capacitor can give you charge, but only for a fraction of a second, if youre listening to goodie mob or 3-6 mafia or bass mekanik or jungle/drum n bass where theres no interruptions in the bass notes, then youre screwed. amp draws the caps power, then the cap is drawing to try and charge itself WHILE the amp is drawing to get its power WHILE the battery is drawing, all from the alternator.
now batteries, sure they can store the power, but what happens when you start draining them. they then become a load, something else drawing from your alternator. basically only truly truly efective when youre running something like a bank of batteries.
now the blessed alternator. this is the only thing that MAKES power in your car as opposed to storing it. if youre makign enough power, then what else have you got to worry about.
my final though here is that cars electrical systems are not perfect. they fluctuate even stock. turn your radio off and roll down all 4 windows at once, it dims your lights. also the alternator isnt always spinning at its perfect speed. youve also got factors like temperature.
I can give you my experience, near 2k rms with no probs. whiterabbit can say the same but with going way over 2k rms. both of us using just upgraded powers and grounds, and me only using a redtop because the stock battery is just dinky.
