Duh... why is the HP racing header illegal again?
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Duh... why is the HP racing header illegal again?
Cuz it's not CARB exempt or something? So is it only illegal outside of California? Or is it something else and it's illegal everywhere.
Damn. It would be a good compliment to my new FIPK.
IronFist
Damn. It would be a good compliment to my new FIPK.
IronFist
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Rep Power: 527 Wtf? What am I missing? It will pass emissions but not a VISUAL INSPECTION? How does that work? Why does it matter what it looks like? If they let cars with big *** wings pass "visual inspections" what's wrong with the hp header?
IronFist
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Rep Power: 330 I just ordered min from thecivicstore.com and if you do not have a lift and engine hoist then you have to grind/file off about 1/3 of your front engine mount. Thankfully i work for a body shop and have access to both items.
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[hr]Originally posted by: SoNiCcIvIc
The high flow catalytic converter makes it "for off-road use only".
It will pass emissions but it won't pass the visual inspection.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: SoNiCcIvIc
The high flow catalytic converter makes it "for off-road use only".
It will pass emissions but it won't pass the visual inspection.[hr]
it might pass visual inspection b/c it "looks" like a stock cat.
i think its illegal inall 50 states to not have a stock catalytic converter.
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Rep Power: 527 So it's a header and pipe that replaces the cat.?
Hmmm.
What if you just used the header? Or is removing the stock cat what is responsible for the gains?
IronFist
Hmmm.
What if you just used the header? Or is removing the stock cat what is responsible for the gains?
IronFist
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Rep Power: 0 you can't just used the header. you need the cat b/c the piping will be to short
replacing the stock cat with a straight through pipe is making the most gains.
here's a pic : Link
replacing the stock cat with a straight through pipe is making the most gains.
here's a pic : Link
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Rep Power: 0 No, I don't have it backwards. It is illegal to change the cat converter in California. If it's changed, it fails the VISUAL. Where did you get a big wing from when we're talking about what causes the part to most likely be illegal?
And it will pass California emissions.... how do I know? I'm the only one here (in this thread) in California with a friend who has the part who took his car to get smogged with the part on!
Now...
High flow cat or straight pipe... they call it a cat converter, some call it a straight pipe. The stock cat is hollow, the "high flow cat" isn't. Whatever... I agree with you on it is why it gives us gains, but this part WILL pass emissions.
And it will pass California emissions.... how do I know? I'm the only one here (in this thread) in California with a friend who has the part who took his car to get smogged with the part on!
Now...
High flow cat or straight pipe... they call it a cat converter, some call it a straight pipe. The stock cat is hollow, the "high flow cat" isn't. Whatever... I agree with you on it is why it gives us gains, but this part WILL pass emissions.
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Rep Power: 0 no, you can change the stock catalytic convertor to a "high flow cat" like the random technology cat and it will pass visual inspection b/c you have a catalytic convertor. Passing a visual inspection requires a funtional cat which is why i failed my inspection with my integra when i put a test pipe on instead
if the header is smog legal, meaning it will pass emissions testing, then why does hp advertise it as race only product. (not-street legal)
if the header is smog legal, meaning it will pass emissions testing, then why does hp advertise it as race only product. (not-street legal)
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Rep Power: 0 It's illegal because in ALL states it is illegal to replace a functionning OEM catylitic converter period...After I beleive it's 5 or 8 years a cat may be replaced with a Non OEM unit..
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Rep Power: 0 Here in CT if you change at cat before XXX miles (something high) it is illegal...however, my previous cars have always passed emissions and have never recieved a visual inspection of the engine bay or underside of the car.
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Rep Power: 0 The header is legal and the hi flow cat will pass emissions. They make it look like a cat, so it will pass visual inspection (noone looks anyway, and if they do and see it chromed, they are not going to tear your exhaust apart to see if it is hi flow or regular.) so anyway, just tell them that you just paid 200 bux to get your stock cat chromed for show purposes. and then your legal... you will have no problems with it...it's all bull. just like hyper white bulbs are for "off road use only" etc etc...
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[hr]Originally posted by: Desi
no, you can change the stock catalytic convertor to a "high flow cat" like the random technology cat and it will pass visual inspection b/c you have a catalytic convertor. Passing a visual inspection requires a funtional cat which is why i failed my inspection with my integra when i put a test pipe on instead
if the header is smog legal, meaning it will pass emissions testing, then why does hp advertise it as race only product. (not-street legal)[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Desi
no, you can change the stock catalytic convertor to a "high flow cat" like the random technology cat and it will pass visual inspection b/c you have a catalytic convertor. Passing a visual inspection requires a funtional cat which is why i failed my inspection with my integra when i put a test pipe on instead
if the header is smog legal, meaning it will pass emissions testing, then why does hp advertise it as race only product. (not-street legal)[hr]
Maybe when they say it's for RACING, they figger they sell more that way.
Sorta like a "Type R" sticker.
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Rep Power: 0 Your stock cat stops working after a few thousand miles...it is just a honeycomb that restricts air flow. The high flow cat just lets the exhaust gas escape quicker. There is absolutly no reason that you should fail a smog inspection for having the cat. The only reason it would fail is if they took the cat off and looked inside. that is the ONLY way. The computer is not smart enough to know if the cat is functional or not..and like i said a few thousand miles (1k, 2k) it stops working anyway...
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Rep Power: 0 I believe the cat works for much longer than a few thousand miles. It's more like 50,000 or more. When they need replaced they are usually somewhat clogged with deposits, but are still working as a cat to some degree.
If they stopped working in a thousand or so miles, you'd never ever pass a smog test in some states. That's why they went to unleaded gas and cats years ago, just to meet emissions standards.
Used to be that leaded gas would mess up a cat pretty fast, but I don't think you can get that kind of gas any more.
If they stopped working in a thousand or so miles, you'd never ever pass a smog test in some states. That's why they went to unleaded gas and cats years ago, just to meet emissions standards.
Used to be that leaded gas would mess up a cat pretty fast, but I don't think you can get that kind of gas any more.
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Rep Power: 0 good example of converter degradation can be seen by tracking a vehicle over its life span. Let's track a 1990 Dodge Daytona 2.5 liter with throttle body injection. The chart above demonstrates "normal" deterioration of the converter, as well as the effect of typical engine wear.
The I/M emissions cut points for this vehicle that took effect Jan. 1, 1999 are 3.0 grams per mile for hydrocarbons (HC), 20.0 grams per mile for carbon monoxide (CO) and 6.0 grams per mile for oxides of nitrogen (NOx).
When the vehicle is new, the tailpipe numbers are extremely low. As the vehicle ends its "useful life" warranty period (5 years or 50,000 miles), notice how close the vehicle is to the maximum new car certification numbers. As the vehicle continues to age and accumulate more mileage, the efficiency of the converter is substantially reduced. Important to remember is that the vehicle is not "broken" and did not fail the tighter I/M 240 emissions limits, even with a well-aged converter. With proper maintenance, the vehicle stands a good chance of more passing tests.
Replacements required for more catalytic converters
The I/M emissions cut points for this vehicle that took effect Jan. 1, 1999 are 3.0 grams per mile for hydrocarbons (HC), 20.0 grams per mile for carbon monoxide (CO) and 6.0 grams per mile for oxides of nitrogen (NOx).
When the vehicle is new, the tailpipe numbers are extremely low. As the vehicle ends its "useful life" warranty period (5 years or 50,000 miles), notice how close the vehicle is to the maximum new car certification numbers. As the vehicle continues to age and accumulate more mileage, the efficiency of the converter is substantially reduced. Important to remember is that the vehicle is not "broken" and did not fail the tighter I/M 240 emissions limits, even with a well-aged converter. With proper maintenance, the vehicle stands a good chance of more passing tests.
Replacements required for more catalytic converters
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From: 4o8, California
Rep Power: 310 Not all states have smog tests. Last time I checked, you can replace the cat if:
1. The vehicle is missing a converter.
2. The state or local inspection program has determined that the existing converter needs replacement.
3. The vehicle has exceeded the age or mileage conditions of the original equipment catalytic converter. Consult vehicle owner’s manual or emissions warranty manual for specific details on your vehicle. Additionally, a legitimate need for replacement has been established and documented.
You can read more about it here: Dynomax
California is the toughest smog state, this is why they have their own standards(CARB). So for most Californians you cant touch it until your warranty wears out. I guess you could always say that the jack slipped and crushed your cat... [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] Then you can stick a high-flow cat on(Car-Sound makes a nice one btw).
1. The vehicle is missing a converter.
2. The state or local inspection program has determined that the existing converter needs replacement.
3. The vehicle has exceeded the age or mileage conditions of the original equipment catalytic converter. Consult vehicle owner’s manual or emissions warranty manual for specific details on your vehicle. Additionally, a legitimate need for replacement has been established and documented.
You can read more about it here: Dynomax
California is the toughest smog state, this is why they have their own standards(CARB). So for most Californians you cant touch it until your warranty wears out. I guess you could always say that the jack slipped and crushed your cat... [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG] Then you can stick a high-flow cat on(Car-Sound makes a nice one btw).
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[hr]Originally posted by: Bartkat
good example of converter degradation can be seen by tracking a vehicle over its life span. Let's track a 1990 Dodge Daytona 2.5 liter with throttle body injection. The chart above demonstrates "normal" deterioration of the converter, as well as the effect of typical engine wear.
The I/M emissions cut points for this vehicle that took effect Jan. 1, 1999 are 3.0 grams per mile for hydrocarbons (HC), 20.0 grams per mile for carbon monoxide (CO) and 6.0 grams per mile for oxides of nitrogen (NOx).
When the vehicle is new, the tailpipe numbers are extremely low. As the vehicle ends its "useful life" warranty period (5 years or 50,000 miles), notice how close the vehicle is to the maximum new car certification numbers. As the vehicle continues to age and accumulate more mileage, the efficiency of the converter is substantially reduced. Important to remember is that the vehicle is not "broken" and did not fail the tighter I/M 240 emissions limits, even with a well-aged converter. With proper maintenance, the vehicle stands a good chance of more passing tests.
Replacements required for more catalytic converters[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Bartkat
good example of converter degradation can be seen by tracking a vehicle over its life span. Let's track a 1990 Dodge Daytona 2.5 liter with throttle body injection. The chart above demonstrates "normal" deterioration of the converter, as well as the effect of typical engine wear.
The I/M emissions cut points for this vehicle that took effect Jan. 1, 1999 are 3.0 grams per mile for hydrocarbons (HC), 20.0 grams per mile for carbon monoxide (CO) and 6.0 grams per mile for oxides of nitrogen (NOx).
When the vehicle is new, the tailpipe numbers are extremely low. As the vehicle ends its "useful life" warranty period (5 years or 50,000 miles), notice how close the vehicle is to the maximum new car certification numbers. As the vehicle continues to age and accumulate more mileage, the efficiency of the converter is substantially reduced. Important to remember is that the vehicle is not "broken" and did not fail the tighter I/M 240 emissions limits, even with a well-aged converter. With proper maintenance, the vehicle stands a good chance of more passing tests.
Replacements required for more catalytic converters[hr]
This is not just the deterioration of the cat, there is also build up of carbon on the head and everywhere else in the engine, if you took the cat off of that truck with 50k or whatever miles and put it on the same truck that had 300 miles, it would still pass with flying colors...there are alot more factors in emissions than just the cat...
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Rep Power: 0 This is what you said, xblkcivicx:
"Your stock cat stops working after a few thousand miles...it is just a honeycomb that restricts air flow. The high flow cat just lets the exhaust gas escape quicker. There is absolutly no reason that you should fail a smog inspection for having the cat. The only reason it would fail is if they took the cat off and looked inside. that is the ONLY way. The computer is not smart enough to know if the cat is functional or not..and like i said a few thousand miles (1k, 2k) it stops working anyway... "
The article that I posted says you are incorrect in the statement that the cat stops working in 1 or 2K miles.
"Your stock cat stops working after a few thousand miles...it is just a honeycomb that restricts air flow. The high flow cat just lets the exhaust gas escape quicker. There is absolutly no reason that you should fail a smog inspection for having the cat. The only reason it would fail is if they took the cat off and looked inside. that is the ONLY way. The computer is not smart enough to know if the cat is functional or not..and like i said a few thousand miles (1k, 2k) it stops working anyway... "
The article that I posted says you are incorrect in the statement that the cat stops working in 1 or 2K miles.
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Rep Power: 0 IMO, it's called "race" because you are replacing a working cat (which everyone knows that's a booboo) with a pipe that doesn't have a cat at all (double booboo now).
And how a car passes emissions w/o a cat is beyond me. I am not saying it's not true. It just seems like if that were the case than no one would have a cat on their car. That would have to be one clean burning **** of an engine to pass ulev standards and not have a cat in the line. Actually, it would be downright amazing imo.
And how a car passes emissions w/o a cat is beyond me. I am not saying it's not true. It just seems like if that were the case than no one would have a cat on their car. That would have to be one clean burning **** of an engine to pass ulev standards and not have a cat in the line. Actually, it would be downright amazing imo.
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Rep Power: 0 When leaded gas was still available, the first thing you did with a new car was to knock the guts out of the converter and knock a bigger hole in the gas filler place. Then run leaded gas. Ran better and was cheaper.
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[hr]Originally posted by: Mbow
And how a car passes emissions w/o a cat is beyond me. I am not saying it's not true. It just seems like if that were the case than no one would have a cat on their car. That would have to be one clean burning **** of an engine to pass ulev standards and not have a cat in the line. Actually, it would be downright amazing imo.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Mbow
And how a car passes emissions w/o a cat is beyond me. I am not saying it's not true. It just seems like if that were the case than no one would have a cat on their car. That would have to be one clean burning **** of an engine to pass ulev standards and not have a cat in the line. Actually, it would be downright amazing imo.[hr]
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Rep Power: 0 i can only speak of misssuri or stl city/county, but you can replace a stock cat regardless of the age of the car or how little miles, as long as the replaced cat is carb legal- thanks to the gateway clean air act that passed 2 years ago.
if the d17a was actually cleaner than expected then we wouldn't need a catalytic converter. i too find it hard to believe that soncicivic's friend pass a smog test w/ the hp header. i'd like to see a test 2-3 years down the road after the engine has a little more wear on it like >50,000 miles b/c the natural combustion of an engine produces carbon monoxide, co2, nitrogen oxides,which all make a car fail an emissions test. if it passes then, the stock cat would just be worthless, imo.
if the d17a was actually cleaner than expected then we wouldn't need a catalytic converter. i too find it hard to believe that soncicivic's friend pass a smog test w/ the hp header. i'd like to see a test 2-3 years down the road after the engine has a little more wear on it like >50,000 miles b/c the natural combustion of an engine produces carbon monoxide, co2, nitrogen oxides,which all make a car fail an emissions test. if it passes then, the stock cat would just be worthless, imo.
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[hr]Originally posted by: Bartkat
This is what you said, xblkcivicx:
"Your stock cat stops working after a few thousand miles...it is just a honeycomb that restricts air flow. The high flow cat just lets the exhaust gas escape quicker. There is absolutly no reason that you should fail a smog inspection for having the cat. The only reason it would fail is if they took the cat off and looked inside. that is the ONLY way. The computer is not smart enough to know if the cat is functional or not..and like i said a few thousand miles (1k, 2k) it stops working anyway... "
The article that I posted says you are incorrect in the statement that the cat stops working in 1 or 2K miles.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Bartkat
This is what you said, xblkcivicx:
"Your stock cat stops working after a few thousand miles...it is just a honeycomb that restricts air flow. The high flow cat just lets the exhaust gas escape quicker. There is absolutly no reason that you should fail a smog inspection for having the cat. The only reason it would fail is if they took the cat off and looked inside. that is the ONLY way. The computer is not smart enough to know if the cat is functional or not..and like i said a few thousand miles (1k, 2k) it stops working anyway... "
The article that I posted says you are incorrect in the statement that the cat stops working in 1 or 2K miles.[hr]
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Rep Power: 0 "Reguardless of when it stops working, the cat deterioration is not the only factor with that vehicle's ramp in smog. There are other variables to consider. Like i stated, if you took that "old" cat and put it on the same truck that was brand new, it would pass smog testing with flying colors... an old cat alone will not make your vehicle fail emissions...and in the same sense a hi-flo cat will not make you fail emissions... "
Are you now retracting your statement that cats no longer work after 1 or 2 K miles?
Are you now retracting your statement that cats no longer work after 1 or 2 K miles?
