AudioQuest

I was worried about the cardboard end caps that Fram uses on its oil filters, so I emailed the company with my concerns. Here's the reply:


Thank you for the e-mail regarding the construction of Fram oil
filters. We welcome the opportunity to be of service.

Fram uses a cardboard material in the construction of it's oil filters.
Fram filters meet the requirements of the
original equipment filter designed for a specific engine. Our filter
applications follow the recommendations of the
vehicle manufacturer for form, fit, and function. Fram filters follow
internally targeted design guidelines to meet the
functional requirements of a given filter. Fram filters are tested
against SAE standards to ensure uniform product
quality and performance. Material construction will vary between filter
manufacturers. We will not debate opinions,
statements, or studies made by individuals expressed in articles or on
websites. We believe Fram filters have a proven
record for providing reliability, superior quality, and engine
protection over the service life of the filter. We
welcome the opportunity to enlighten you on the subject of cardboard
used in Fram end disk construction.

A common misunderstanding among our customers concerns the end disks in
the oil filter. These disks hold the glue which
keeps the pleated media formed into a rigid circular tube. The
glue-to-media interface is also one of the sealing
surfaces keeping dirty and filtered oil from mixing. One common myth is
that only metal end disks can adequately seal
and have enough strength in the hot oil environment. For this reason,
Fram filters are criticized for having cardboard
end disks. The issue is, the material doing the sealing is the
adhesive, regardless of the material of the end disk.
What matters is the strength of the adhesive, its proper curing, the
thoroughness with which it can be applied to the
disk, and its adhesion to the disk. By using cardboard end disks, Fram
filter engineers are able to specify adhesives
with excellent strength and sealing properties, and strong adhesion to
the disk (intuitively, it is easy to make a
strong glue bond with cardboard). Moreover, just as paper media itself
is able to withstand the hot oil environment, so
too is the end disk designed of fibers engineered to be strong and
inert in hot oil. The thickness and strength of the
adhesive also stiffens the end disk considerably.

How do Fram engineers test these end disks to know that they hold up on
the job? Not only do they perform hot oil
circulation tests on the filter element, but they also regularly cut
open used filters to examine how well they have
withstood the rigors of actual use on a vehicle. For over 38 years,
Fram end disks have stood up to hot oil and their
adhesives have sealed off the dirty oil.

We believe that FRAM filters are clearly the best filters available.
Fram is committed to standing behind and endorsing
it's products and filter recommendations listed in the current Fram
application catalogs. As part of this commitment, if
you should ever have reason to suspect or question the quality of a
Fram filter, we encourage you to contact the Fram
Product Evaluation Team toll free at 1-877-250-8361 for further
assistance.

With respect to extended service intervals, the Fram Extended Guard oil
filter is the only Fram filter offered that is
designed to meet extended oil filter service intervals established by
the vehicle manufacturers. The Extended Guard oil
filter uses steel end disks.

The Fram Extended Guard filter uses a filter media that includes a
reinforced mesh screen for maximum pleat integrity,
durability, and oil flow. The inclusion of the metal screen increased
the glue tolerances or thickness required for
proper adhesion to the end disk. The original Extended Guard oil filter
prototype development specified the cardboard
end disk technology. However, the increased amount of adhesive required
to join the cardboard end disk to the screened
media resulted in prototypes that did not conform to design standards.
We had no choice but to use a steel end disk with
the X2 filter media to provide uniform Extended Guard oil filter
construction.

The XG7317 is the recommended Fram oil filter for the 2003 Honda Civic
1.7L engine that is designed to meet a 7000+ mile
extended service interval.

Thank you for choosing Fram filters.

tcostello3

I used FRAM for about 10years until afew monthes ago I took one off and for the 2nd time the whole seal was cracked & hanging out. It seems to me their QC has gone down hill!

Pay a little more and get the K&N oil filters! Part # HP1010

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

I used to use Fram, only because I didn't know any better! Until I did some research. Go to google and type in "oil filter comparison." Someone has done the work for you already. Fram is a bargin basement filter. Compared to the other filters on the market - fram sucks the big one.

Check out the reviews - top performers include: purolator, wix, toyo, and of course mobile 1. Our cars use an OEM filter from Toyo - which is damn good if you see the comparisons. This is why I wouldn't use anything but a genuine Honda filter on my car. Not sure about the quality of K&N - their air filters are nice tho.

About the Fram double guard filter -

They actually put TEFLON in the filter! Anyone remember slick 50? What about that new crap "greased lightning"? This is the biggest mistake you can do to your engine - put teflon in....

Man, I just can't believe all of the snakeoil out there.....

tcostello3

2 nicest things i noticed about k&n is;
1 = Self lubing seal
2 = anti-backflow..really does help with cold starts. And my gas mileage got a little better

Bryn

Guess I'll be buying the factory filters from now on. Didn't know FRAM was s**t. Oh well.

tcostello3

Are you ordering Genuine Honda on the net or going to the dealer? how much $?

HomerSimpson

iTrader: (5)

I would never use fram, if they were any good and less expensive then why dont the lube shops use them?

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

If you want Honda OEM filters - Handaaccessories.com has them cheap. Buy in bulk, save!

One of the things I've noticed about going to my dealer to get my oil changed (not that I don't know how, or can't do it - I just don't like dealing with the used oil, and all of the recycling BS), was that some dealeres DON'T use genuine Honda brand parts! Make sure, if you bring your car to the dealer to get your oil changed (not bad for $19.99, I look at it also as a time thing, since I don't have a lot of time to waste trying to get rid of the old oil / parts) that you specify what brand oil / filter to use.

I got jacked the first time, the dealer in Orlando (Holler) used Castrol 10-30 oil - I was pissed! The dealer, among all others, should know that on a brand new 2001 civic, with 15k miles on it to use 5W-20. And I would think, that since it was a Honda dealer that they would have used THEIR brand of oil (which is manufactured by Mobil!)....Nope. Stupid SOB's. They even overfilled the crank ABOVE the full mark.

I've been to some bad dealers before....Just make sure that you check everything over when you get your car back if you take it in to get work done...

tcostello3

Holler Honda Blows...Coutesy suck too now that AutoNation owns them. My friend is the Customer Service Manager at Courtesy so if you need a hook up let me know! If you're in O-Town opto_isolator maybe we can order a case together. I've to hondas that take the same filters

AudioQuest

I thought I would post that email to curtail people's fears of using Fram filters, but I guess people have prejudices and they will stick by them. By the way, Fram produces Honda of North America's oil filters. The Japanese market Honda filters are Toyos. Honda Canada's oil filters are made in Stratford, Ontario by Fram (Honeywell). I used to date a girl who worked in the plant. The Honda filters are painted blue, the Frams orange, the Motomasters (Canadian Tire brand) white, the Quaker States green and the Pennzoils yellow.

Voiceofid

iTrader: (3)

amsoil heavy duty

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

You running a Mac truck?

Lucid484

iTrader: (1)

you dont need to use 5W-20 ,I use 5w-30 synthetic oil and fram sure grip filters and my engine loves it =)

ak

iTrader: (19)

I use Bosch, but would definetely use Mobil1 later on...

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

Yah... I use Bosch too... never had a problem with the filters.

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

Comapanies will stick by their product, regardless if it sucks or not. If you fall for the endless marketing drivel of every company out there than you are sucker. Why do you buy the brands you do? Because you trust their quality. Certain brands are inferior than others. That's why there is usually a price difference between products. Every company that is out there that produces oil filters must meet certain ASE specifications for flow and filtration. How long / how well they perform beyond that is anyone's guess. That's where independent testing comes in. Did you even bother to read any of the articles which were posted on the net about the filter comparisons? They clearly (objectively, not subjectively) show which is inferior and which is superior.

Don't get me wrong - fram filters do what they are supposed to do. They meet MINIMUM specifications set by ASE. However, I prefer to have piece of mind knowing that what I put in my car is engineered and manufactured as best it can be. The old adage sticks - "you get what you pay for."

True. When I bought my car from the dealer it had a Toyo filter on it. When I went back to another honda dealer to purchase another replacement filter it was a blue toyo. I have still yet to see an aftermarket Fram on a Honda (not to doubt you, just that I haven't seen one yet!)

I believe Handaaccessories sells the blue toyo filters. Quality filter at a quality price.

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

I know I don't, but I insist on 5W-20 for a reason. The engineers that designed the car (as well as the ASE who designed the spec for the 5W-20) know what they are doing. I trust their expertise. BTW, I believe mobil one has finally come out with a synthetic 5W-20? Not sure if its them or Valvoline (which sucks anyways).


Amen to that! I travel for work, next time I'm in town I'll give you a shout!

htowncivicEX

Where did you guys find out that Fram/Toyo/whoever makes the Honda filters? Every single Honda filter I've seen says 'Filtech' on it, which means it was mfg'd by Bosch (Filtech is a trademark of Bosch).

Voiceofid

iTrader: (3)

no, it's a Caterpillar 789B

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

Check this out:

http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml

tcostello3

Dumbass question here but since you value the expertise of the enginers so much do NOT modify your car?

htowncivicEX

I know some of the guys in NTPOG, and they're cool guys and know their stuff.

But I know for a fact that every single Honda OEM filter I have ever seen (I did nothing but oil changes for a month at a Honda dealership) has 'Filtech' on it. Which means it was made by Bosch.

So while Toyo may be one of the suppliers of filters to Honda, Bosch also makes a good portion of them as well.

AudioQuest

It would seem that Honda oil filters come from three manufacturers:

Japan - Toyo Roki
Canada - Fram(Honeywell)
USA - Filtech(Bosch)

opto_isolator

iTrader: (8)

This is like comparing apples to oranges. The engine/drivetrain is engineered to use a specific fluid. Would you use automatic transmission fluid in your manual transmission? Comon now, I'm not trying to start a pissing contest.....

Macko

I use Quaker State, i trust it cause i put their oil into my car... so there is no reason for them to make a filter that doens't meet up to the standards of their oil.

and for those who may think their car is running better after teh change... umm helloe, or course it'd be running better! you just changed the oil and replaced a dirty oil filter, obviously the car would feel a bit different , considering it was running on thick, dirty oil, and a filter that was probably dirty and caught all the crap it was supposed to

Bryn

The filters that HandA sells are part number 15400-P0H-305, the USA model. As concluded in this thread, these are Bosch filters, not Toyo. Oh well, the Bosch filters were rated very high.