jucaben

Hello All. New to the site but I have been getting info from this site for a few months now. I haven't had any real issues till now but I have been gathering info for the last few months to know what to look for, this is a great site with lots of info. I bought an 09 LX with 29,xxx at the end of last August. The car now has 42,xxx on it. Since I got it I have 2 tranny drain and fills (as is highly recommended here), several oil changes and a couple tire rotations. I did my last tire rotation about 500-600 miles ago and since then I have a vibration when I drive 50+ mph. I had the tires balanced twice and still the same vibration. In doing research here I couldn't find the same problem I am having, some are similar but change depending on speed mine stays the same once I hit 50+ mph. I decided to jack the car up and see if I could notice a wobble on the tires, thinking maybe bent axle? Didn't notice a wobble whatsoever. I took both wheels off and at 50+ mph you can feel the car start to vibrate, I cannot see anything moving in a way that would be obvious. Rotors don't seem bent, axles look good. I did notice that when my wife let off the gas and let it basically rotate at idle speed when she applied the brake the engine seems to really buck (not shudder but basically move back and forth) the lower mount seems to really move quite a bit (not sure if that is normal with the tires off?). I don't see any movement from the passenger side mount. I didn't get under the car to check the other mounts, I didn't trust it on the jacks. Any help would be greatly appreciated. This has me baffled and don't know where to look at this point. Thanks in advance.

ezone

Stock wheels?
Elaborate on vibration: Is the vibration at 50+ a noise/sound, or is it an actual shake?
If shake, does it shake the steering wheel, or does it shake the seats?
Which end of the car does it come from? (noise or shake)

Was the the same noise still present while you had the front raised on jackstands?

Mounts are rubber, SOME drivetrain movement is expected and normal. There is only mount on the bottom attached to the oil pan brace and subframe, it's a torque or dog bone style and only limits the rocking movement.
Member Ripsaw had to replace his but the rubber had been soaked by oil leaks.

Very common issue= tire tread- choppy inner edges make lots of noise. They develop the choppy uneven wear while on the rear, then when they are rotated to the front it becomes quite pronounced and noticeable and obnoxious. If you know what to look for this can be seen as the tires spin in the air very slowly, every other or every few blocks of tread along the inboard edge are worn high-low-high-low to some extent.

If it's choppy tread, balancing can't get rid of it. It's like trying to balance a stop sign....it can balance but once it's rolling on the pavement it's still gonna be rough.

Typical choppy tread noises might sound like a helicopter if they are bad enough.
OTOH a wheel bearing noise might be described as a small airplane flying beside you.

jucaben

Hey ezone. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Yes they are stock steelies. Shakes the seats, my wife could feel it in the passenger seat, and can feel it in the gas pedal also. It seems like the washboard that I have seen on other posts but not 100% sure if that's an accurate comp. Not really a shake in the steering wheel, I had that before the tires were balanced the first time but that went away once they were balanced. When I had the car jacked up yesterday with the wheels off and it was up to 50+ I could feel the vibration on the passenger door when I put my hand on it. I have no noise, at least that I can tell, wheels on or off. I forgot I did have driver's side rear wheel bearing go less than 1K after I got it and it was replaced, yeah they sound like your in a plane. Definitely coming from the front. I had it up to 75 mph coming home from work and when I let up on the gas I could still feel the vibration until it came down to about 55 or maybe less. With the car jacked up and the wheels off there really isn't any pressure/resistance on the front end, am I correct on that thinking? What is actually doing anything? Tranny/axles/bearings? I am really hoping it's not the tranny. Could an axle with a tiny bend be possible and not noticed with the naked eye?

ezone

Car front end jacked up and wheels spinning, no noise. Right?

So it's almost gotta be tires that make noise only when in contact with the pavement.
Bearings and everything else rotating in the front (bearings everywhere) would still make noise with the front end jacked up. If wheel bearings were noisy, you could probably hang on to each front coil spring with your hand and feel a whole bunch of the bearing rumble transmitted through the strut and spring.

Rump rump rump rump sounds at low speeds, and sometimes there is a corresponding vibration...sometimes it is more pronounced with heavy braking.....tire tread.



Simple diagnosis: Rotate tires front to rear, see that noise moves to the rear of the car.
This all began after the last tire rotation, so put the tires back where they were before and see (listen).






I've been looking at google images for good pics but not much clearly points out what to look for...but check these pics as uneven tread wear, individual tread blocks wear at an angle, either sloped in one direction or every other (or every few) tread blocks worn high-low-high-low... not always consistently around the whole tire, it could just be short sections of tread affected.

A couple of these pics show pretty well the high-low effect as light and dark tread blocks around the tire edge

On your car they are probably only or mostly on the inboard edges of the tires.

jucaben

Can't figure out how to add parts of previous posts, AARRGGGHHHH! Any who, I don't believe the tires have anything to do with it, if you look at my second post I had the car jacked up and the wheels off and the car was still vibrating @ 50+. There really isn't any noise driving (just road noise), jacked up wheels on or off.

The car doesn't shimmy or shake, it feels like you are driving over tiny rumble strips (I guess the washboard effect?) and no noise. Could the bearings be going and just haven't started to make that wonderful airplane sound? Would an axle have to bent to possibly cause a vibration?

The mechanics around here are horrible and I don't trust them much so not going there and I trust the help here.

ezone

Ya, I read that post several times but it wasn't exactly clear in my head what was happening with it (trying to visualize through written word LOL).

feel vibration in the door....?

Ok...how about this angle
Check if engine mount on passengers side has collapsed or come apart.
Collapsed is much easier to see than 'came apart'

Collapsed, check the pictures in this post: https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ml#post4577741
(Peruse the whole thread to see what most people complain of when this mount collapses too)

Pics:
Bad


Bad:




New replacement has a significant gap:







To see if it's come apart, you'd need to remove the torque rod from the top of that mount then jack up the engine a little to see if the center (threaded insert) has ripped free of the main section of the rubber in the mount.



End result:

jucaben

Thanks ezone. Yeah I could feel the vibration on the door when it was jacked up and wheels off.

I did see that thread after I checked everything and I guess I didn't think that was a possibility, I originally was looking at that dogbone and didn't notice any vibration so didn't think anything of it. I didn't realize at the time about the mount under it. I also saw that most people say that it vibrates in reverse and when shifting which is not happening to me.

I did go and check the spacing after realizing there is supposed to be about 1cm gap in there. I have I think about a 1/4" which may indicate it is starting to go? I ordered one from the Honda dealer and will be picking it up today. Don't know if I will get a chance to install it this weekend as it is supposed to rain on and off all weekend. I hope this is the problem.

I didn't find any torque specs for the bolts on the top bracket that attaches to the engine, I have a Haynes manual which usually has the specs but nothing for the mounts. I guess a 1/4 turn before it snaps off? Just kidding!

I will update after its in and if the vibration is gone.

Thanks for your help and time.

ezone

Is the speed/frequency of the vibration consistent the rotational speed of the wheels? (i.e. one shake per wheel revolution)
Is it consistent with with that of the engines 4 cylinders firing and vibrating?
Is it consistent with something entirely different?



A 1/4" gap isn't a problem yet, but has the top center button separated from the rest of the mount like in the last couple pics?

Torque specs you could probably determine by the shaft diameter and thread pitch using general charts

I just glanced at info
14mm head = 36 ft lb
17mm head = 47 ft lb,
19mm head = 54 ft lb

jucaben

Changed out the mount today. It looks about 1/8" more space than the old one. The old one was not separated at the top. Vibration is a little less than before but still there.

Once you hit 50mph you can start feeling the vibration in the passenger seat but not the steering wheel.

Could the sway bar bushings be worn causing the vibration?
Nothing looks to be worn just by doing a visual. I guess I will just have to replace things one at a time till I find the problem.

ezone

This is with the front wheels off the ground and removed from the car?


Is the speed/frequency of the vibration consistent the rotational speed of the wheels? (i.e. one shake per wheel revolution)
Is it consistent with with that of the engines 4 cylinders firing and vibrating?
Is it consistent with something entirely different?


No.

jucaben

Vibration doesn't change depending on speed but does start at about 50mph.

I was trying different things when I got home today and noticed a couple things that I had not noticed before.

1. I had the car in Park and started accelerating and noticed that when the RPM are about 1100-1300 the car starts to vibrate quite a bit. At idle up to 1100 and after 1500 or so I really don't feel much vibration.

2. At idle and Park don't really feel any vibration. I put in reverse with my foot on the brake and starts to vibrate a little, when I release the brake the vibration goes away. I put it in Neutral and vibrates very slightly, when I release the brake the vibration goes away. I put it in any of the drive D-1 and starts vibrating the worst of all, when I release the brake the vibration goes away.

3. I jacked up each front side independently to check the wheel bearings, the passenger side I get a little movement on the wheel side to side (maybe 1/4") and I can hear a slight clunk/click. No movement up and down.

I don't know if this was happening before as I didn't notice it. May have absolutely nothing to do with it but figured I would put it on here just in case.

Sorry for the long post but this thing is driving me crazy.

ezone

These descriptions seem typical for the car, and probably wouldn't have anything to do with a vibration at 50+ MPH.
Did you neutralize all of the mounts after the replacement?
I just about need to be able to experience this first hand in order to get the answers to these:

This is with the front wheels off the ground and removed from the car?


Is the speed/frequency of the vibration consistent the rotational speed of the wheels? (i.e. one shake per wheel revolution)
Is it consistent with with that of the engines 4 cylinders firing and vibrating?
Is it consistent with something entirely different?