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Hi,


My 1997 Civic with 383,000+ miles (original engine) on it starts and immediately turns off. This only happens when the car is at full operating temperature. It all started on the freeway last week at 70 mph... The car just turned off.


I started it this morning and fires right up with no problems whatsoever.


So far, I replaced the ignition coil, wires, cap, rotor, main relay, and ignition control module. There are no codes.


Any ideas?

 
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My 97 d16y8 had the same issue. Did a head gasket and its fixed

 
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if the entire dash looks like someone just shut the key off when it dies.......ignition switch

 
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a couple of weeks ago I fixed it. i ran it for 10 minutes... it turned off. So i disconnected the maf sensor... the car automatically dies. so re-connected the maf sensor. then i disconnect the IAC... it ran like crap.... but for some reason it kept running like crap for an hour in the driveway


so re-connected the iac and now the car is up and running again.. so maybe the maf or iac connectors were wiggled loose?????? i have no idea. or maybe i have a short somewhere...but it works fine again....


So today I am 384,200+ miles... im trying to hit 400,000!!!! Bought it at the Ontario, Ca Honda Dealership back in 1999... things just keeps running

 
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I forgot to mention... the first week of December 2016 I replaced my head gasket too... So maybe when I reconnected everything... I didn't connect it correctly... So it took a month to wiggle itself loose????


Who knows

 
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Ok - new development... apparently wires didn't wiggle loose. The car started acting up again. Then Saturday it wouldn't start.


Cleaned throttle body and changed plugs. The plugs were at .058. They should be .043. They were COMPLETELY fouled (BLACK).


Car ran like a champ today. Better than ever.


Maybe all this time it was just the plugs that needed changing???

 
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I suppose you'll know within a few days..... but I still vote ignition switch

 
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Saga continues - the car stalled this morning... so it wasn't the plugs...


ezone - I will finally check the ignition switch like you said. Will I be able to visually see the problem? or not?

 
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You have to rip the switch apart to see the insides. but you can test the contacts of the switch once you remove the covers from the steering column. This was in my girlfriends '99 sedan.

Here's the thread:

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/2...ml#post4713663

I bought a new switch (just the electrical part) off rockauto for a really good price. I just had to move a couple wires from the old harness to the new one.

 
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Colin42,


RockAuto is showing a switch+lock cylinder+key... the entire thing... What do you mean by just the electrical part? Just the pigtail or?


for my 97 Civic I only see the entire assembly.


I appreciate you help. Thanks for pics

 
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Apparently the part I bought is only compatible for 98-00.... dang

This is what I purchased:
http://www.rockauto.com/en/partsearch/?partnum=US1047

You could buy the entire thing with keys and just have a different key for starting. or you can swap the lock cylinder over so that the new switch works with the old key.

Have you tested to make sure that the part is bad yet? I don't know if you read through my thread to see the symptoms I was having, I originally thought it was the main relay

 
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I havent tested the ignition switch yet... I don't feel like screwing with it. Im just going to replace the part. Ill let you know how it goes.


I thought it was the relay too but have replaced that already.

 
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ALL I ever do is watch the symptom.
If the engine dies and the dash lights up with a pile of warning lights, the ignition is still powering everything.


If the engine dies and the dash looks dead like the key was shut off, guess what.

Roll the key slightly and all the lights come back on or flicker as you roll the key, it's bad.

 
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ezone,

thanks for info... doesnt look to be the ignition switch... the cars just turned off and the battery light came on... the oil light came on...

Any other ideas? im checking the timing right now.

 
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Timing is good. Took timing cover off and no skipped teeth or anything. All the timing marks are lined up perfect.

I did notice that the plugs in installed yesterday are already getting black...? Does this help?

So to date: timing belt and marks all good, new plugs, wires, cap, rotor, coil, ignition control module, and main relay. All brand new.

Maybe the coolant temp sensor?

 
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At the moment it loses power but you're still at highway speed: What does the tach needle show?

Does the tach still show the real engine RPM, or does it show zero even though the engine is still turning? (because the transmission is still turning the engine for quite a while until you slow down)



After it stalls and you come to a halt, does it start right up immediately or do you have to wait a while? How long?


Do you have enough time to check if it lost either spark or fuel before it will start again?


Were the coil and ICM factory parts or aftermarket?

The plugs show what was happening at the moment the engine was shut off. What was the last thing the engine was doing (running conditions) immediately before you pulled the plugs?

I don't think the ECT would cause a sudden stall. It may make the engine run pig-rich but it would likely run bad before stalling, maybe blow black smoke if it were extremely rich. If you have a scanner that can display live operating data you can watch the value of that sensor and judge if it is accurate or not.

 
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ezone,


At the moment it loses power but you're still at highway speed: What does the tach needle show? the car, lately, has ONLY had the issue when I am trying to start the car for the first time in the morning. it starts and immediately turns off. It has not happened while driving in over a month.

Does the tach still show the real engine RPM, or does it show zero even though the engine is still turning?

I don't have a tach in the car so I cant answer your question.

After it stalls and you come to a halt, does it start right up immediately or do you have to wait a while? How long? When it did stall when driving - I had wait a while, came back the next day and it would start up no problem.


Do you have enough time to check if it lost either spark or fuel before it will start again? No, I never have enough time. Last night - I started it up and died immediately. I did that for 2 minutes and the car finally started for the rest of the night. 6 hours I was messing with car.


Were the coil and ICM factory parts or aftermarket? They were Oreilly Store brand parts.


Quote:
I did notice that the plugs in installed yesterday are already getting black...? Does this help?
The plugs show what was happening at the moment the engine was shut off. What was the last thing the engine was doing (running conditions) immediately before you pulled the plugs? It was running PERFECT because the plugs were only 100 miles old.

I don't think the ECT would cause a sudden stall. It may make the engine run pig-rich but it would likely run bad before stalling, maybe blow black smoke if it were extremely rich. I understand.

 
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Last night I found another issue. The alternator belt rubbed through the crank position wire sensor. Do you think this would cause the car to start and immediately shut off? Or cause my car to foul the plugs?


Also - last night I disconnected my map sensor, IAC, TPS, and ECT while the car was running... Since the car continues to run without these... Doesn't it mean they ARE NOT the problem?

 
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.


Without rereading the entire thread, have you replaced the PGMFI main relay yet?
It could cause the fuel pump to shut off, or it could shut down the ECM depending on which part of the main relay fails.


The crank sensor (CKF) wiring would set a fault code but it isn't used to run the engine. It's only used for monitoring misfires. You could disconnect it and the engine would still start and run, if you would like to verify this. (I can't tell you what would happen if the wires shorted together though)
On the 97 the CKP is inside the distributor.
So you have a pile of fault codes now?

Startup strategy is a little different from running strategy, you could have a helluva time getting it to start with a false ECT value but once you get it started it may run fair even though it sends a false temperature value.

I've even caught one that read very inaccurately ONLY while trying to crank a hot engine. Read in the 180* range like it should until the starter engaged then it read something like +20*F and dumping fuel pig rich...... The customer was getting it started by flooring the gas pedal then it stunk like gasoline once it ran.

A scanner data list (or app) would be a big help to quickly determine if this sensor reads accurately or not.

Yours has TWO coolant sensors on the end of the head. One has a single wire, that's for the gauge on the dash. The one with two wires is the ECT used by the computer.
The one on the thermostat housing with two wires is for the radiator fan.

That's not what I meant.

The plugs can show what was happening at the moment the engine was shut off.

If the engine was started up cold and moved 10 feet, then shut off......or shut off before the engine got warmed up, the plugs could be dark or black just because a cold engine runs very rich.

A good running engine that has just been driven for a fair distance and is fully warmed up would usually have very clean spark plugs, if you shut it off immediately after a hard run they would be clean and white.

 
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ezone,


Yes, I have replaced the main relay already (didn't help). ICM, cap rotor, coil, wires, plugs, didn't help either.


I replaced the Crank Position Sensor last night (the one inside the timing cover behind the balancer - I am not sure what you are talking about INSIDE of the distributor). Incidentally - it never set off a fault code but im replacing anyway for good measure.


I am currently waiting on a new distributor (screw it - im just doing it). I will get it installed timed and see if that fixes my problem.


I will report back. Thx for your help.

 
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Quote:
map sensor, IAC, TPS, and ECT while the car was running So you have a pile of fault codes now? NO, I have NO fault codes. I was just asking if these would cause my problem

 
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It was the DISTRIBUTOR! that fixed my issue.


Word to the wise... just pay $137 for a new distributor... don't buy a coil and ignition module like I did.


The car idles ask good as it did when I bought it in 1999.

 
Rep Power: 517

Good to hear it.
Now we can wonder if the problem was one of the three sensors inside the distributor would quit and not set a fault code, or if it was some different item inside the distributor that was causing the problem without setting any fault code....these types of problems really can suck.