can i run a 5psi turbo with no fuel mods ?
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can i run a 5psi turbo with no fuel mods ?
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG] i was wonderin if our civics can run 5 psi turbos with no fuel mods. and will the stock pistons be safe. and wats the difference between a wastegate and a BOV. and also how do u tune a turbo for a certian psi.
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Yes, are fuel systems can run 9psi max. 5 is a safe limit. The head gasket blows at 10 psi and the intake manifold blows at 11 psi and the pistons are good for 11 psi as well.
A wastegate is usually on the turbo manifold or on the turbo itself. There is internal wastegate or external. Internal is on the turbo and is set from a factory or a company from a certaint psi range that you can adjust. Example: 5-9 or whatever it is set at. An external wastgate can be set to anything by changing the size of the spring and some need diaphram changes. They usually run a range of 5-8, 7-9, or 9- 13 and more.....
The blow off valve releases the air pressure in the charge pipe leading to the throttle body. When you shift gears or pretty much when you let off the throttle and there is uneeded boost.
You can get a nice 5 psi kit for around $2200
Later, Phil
A wastegate is usually on the turbo manifold or on the turbo itself. There is internal wastegate or external. Internal is on the turbo and is set from a factory or a company from a certaint psi range that you can adjust. Example: 5-9 or whatever it is set at. An external wastgate can be set to anything by changing the size of the spring and some need diaphram changes. They usually run a range of 5-8, 7-9, or 9- 13 and more.....
The blow off valve releases the air pressure in the charge pipe leading to the throttle body. When you shift gears or pretty much when you let off the throttle and there is uneeded boost.
You can get a nice 5 psi kit for around $2200
Later, Phil
Nice reply Barney, although it has been discussed to death = ) btw is somone sellling a kit for 2200 or is that for a custom fab? just wondering im starting to gather parts for mine too.
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Both of you are wrong. You need to add larger injectors or an additional injector to run 5psi. You can run up to 3psi with no additional fuel, but even at that low pressure, it's not very safe.
Barney: where did you get all of this information? To my knowledge, no one has tested the intake manifold, just the block itself. The fuel system can handle 9psi, but only if you put the additional/larger injectors in. The stock injectors, MAP sensor, and ECU are not programmed or capable of adding the fuel required for boost, so you must add the additional or larger injectors and a fuel computer to control them. No exceptions.
SLAMMED01CIV: You do not need to return the fuel line. Mine's still returnless and runs just fine at 8psi.
Barney: where did you get all of this information? To my knowledge, no one has tested the intake manifold, just the block itself. The fuel system can handle 9psi, but only if you put the additional/larger injectors in. The stock injectors, MAP sensor, and ECU are not programmed or capable of adding the fuel required for boost, so you must add the additional or larger injectors and a fuel computer to control them. No exceptions.
SLAMMED01CIV: You do not need to return the fuel line. Mine's still returnless and runs just fine at 8psi.
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Rep Power: 0 ok so can some one tell me fr sure wat ill need to do.secondly what the hell is a returnless or reurnin fuel line. and how much wud larger injetors cost if u guys can finalise if they r needed or not. i also herd u can add an extra injetor, now how do u do that
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Rep Power: 0 If you search, you should find a fair amount of threads I've participated in talking about how to add the additional injector or larger injectors.
As for the return/returnless.... Older Civics have a return fuel line for the unused fuel to return to the tank, but our generation of Civic uses a returnless sytem that uses all of the fuel that goes through the lines. Because of this, we cannot use an FMU to add fuel for boost as older cars can.
To do this, you're going to need: Either 1 additional 460 injector, or 4 320 injectors, and a fuel computer of some type, either the AEM EMS or a Haltech. The AFC Hack used on older turbo cars will not work on our Civics.
As for the return/returnless.... Older Civics have a return fuel line for the unused fuel to return to the tank, but our generation of Civic uses a returnless sytem that uses all of the fuel that goes through the lines. Because of this, we cannot use an FMU to add fuel for boost as older cars can.
To do this, you're going to need: Either 1 additional 460 injector, or 4 320 injectors, and a fuel computer of some type, either the AEM EMS or a Haltech. The AFC Hack used on older turbo cars will not work on our Civics.
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Rep Power: 0 1- No additional fuel, you will lean out, and your engine will blow. How bad the blow is will depend on what boost pressure you are running.
2- It wouldn't do anything. It would just sit there, adding no fuel. The computer has to tell the injector when to fire.
3- Expect to spend around $150-$200 for the injector, and $400-$1300 for the computer, depending on which you go with.
2- It wouldn't do anything. It would just sit there, adding no fuel. The computer has to tell the injector when to fire.
3- Expect to spend around $150-$200 for the injector, and $400-$1300 for the computer, depending on which you go with.
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Rep Power: 0 I really don't see how... there will be nothing to control the added fuel delivery... Many of these computers are available online, would you be able to order it there and have it shipped?
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Rep Power: 0 Hey,
I said the fuel system was good for 9 psi max, but you are right I forgot to mention the bigger injectors. I didn't know he was asking that, just thought he was asking what it was good for.
EDIT: I know the intake manifold is good for 9 psi because that is what I ran mine at for a month, then I got overconvident and I was running 13 psi. It seperated in the first day. I now have a custom intake manifold.
Later, Phil
I said the fuel system was good for 9 psi max, but you are right I forgot to mention the bigger injectors. I didn't know he was asking that, just thought he was asking what it was good for.
EDIT: I know the intake manifold is good for 9 psi because that is what I ran mine at for a month, then I got overconvident and I was running 13 psi. It seperated in the first day. I now have a custom intake manifold.
Later, Phil
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Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Barney
Hey,
I said the fuel system was good for 9 psi max, but you are right I forgot to mention the bigger injectors. I didn't know he was asking that, just thought he was asking what it was good for.
EDIT: I know the intake manifold is good for 9 psi because that is what I ran mine at for a month, then I got overconvident and I was running 13 psi. It seperated in the first day. I now have a custom intake manifold.
Later, Phil[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: Barney
Hey,
I said the fuel system was good for 9 psi max, but you are right I forgot to mention the bigger injectors. I didn't know he was asking that, just thought he was asking what it was good for.
EDIT: I know the intake manifold is good for 9 psi because that is what I ran mine at for a month, then I got overconvident and I was running 13 psi. It seperated in the first day. I now have a custom intake manifold.
Later, Phil[hr]
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Rep Power: 0 Hey,
I was just curious Riceburnr, how you put an injector in the charge piping. How do you seal it? How do you run fuel to it? (a t fitting off the fuel line) How do you control it computer wise?
Thanks in advance, Phil
I was just curious Riceburnr, how you put an injector in the charge piping. How do you seal it? How do you run fuel to it? (a t fitting off the fuel line) How do you control it computer wise?
Thanks in advance, Phil
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Rep Power: 0 drag: V-AFC will work, but not very well. It cannot vary fuel vs. boost, only fuel vs. RPM's. Not the safest.
Barney: Welded an injector bung to the charge piping, it's a special fitting designed to hold an injector. Just weld it in at a perpendicular (think I spelled that right) angle to the piping. Just ran a T off of the fuel line to supply fuel. I'm using a Haltech F5 computer to control it, it's an additional injector controller that uses its own MAP and RPM sensor to add fuel according to how it is tuned.
Barney: Welded an injector bung to the charge piping, it's a special fitting designed to hold an injector. Just weld it in at a perpendicular (think I spelled that right) angle to the piping. Just ran a T off of the fuel line to supply fuel. I'm using a Haltech F5 computer to control it, it's an additional injector controller that uses its own MAP and RPM sensor to add fuel according to how it is tuned.
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Rep Power: 0 If you want to use the Haltech, there's a dealer list (you can choose the one closest to your country) at Haltech's Home Page.
For the AEM EMS, go to AEM's Home Page and look for a dealer list.
For the AEM EMS, go to AEM's Home Page and look for a dealer list.
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Rep Power: 0 Hey Ricburnr,
I want to ask you a favor, if it is not to much trouble. Can you take a pic of your set up? A pic of the injector in the charge piping and a pic of the fuel line? I would appreciate it greatly.
Phil
I want to ask you a favor, if it is not to much trouble. Can you take a pic of your set up? A pic of the injector in the charge piping and a pic of the fuel line? I would appreciate it greatly.
Phil
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Rep Power: 0 Fuel Rail T for Additional Injector
The gold thing to the right of the T with the silver sticker and black wire is my fuel pressure gauge sender.
Additional Injector Bung with Fuel Line and Signal Wire
The gold thing to the right of the T with the silver sticker and black wire is my fuel pressure gauge sender.
Additional Injector Bung with Fuel Line and Signal Wire
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Rep Power: 0 Thanks Riceburnr,
I appreciate it. I see how you did it now. NOt bad. Where can I get one of those injector bungs? I might go that way or just stay the way I am. I have bigger injectors (prelude 310cc injectors) and a return fuel line with fuel pressure regulator removed from tank and one added under the hood.
Phil
I appreciate it. I see how you did it now. NOt bad. Where can I get one of those injector bungs? I might go that way or just stay the way I am. I have bigger injectors (prelude 310cc injectors) and a return fuel line with fuel pressure regulator removed from tank and one added under the hood.
Phil
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Rep Power: 0 If your going to do a turbo setup, your gonna need to get a turbo manifold and a return fuel system. Those are the biggest problems with wanting to turbo our car's. The manifold, your gonna have to get custom made. I emailed revhard and they quoted that a custom made manifold would cost about 550 and take about 2 months to make. And your gonna need to purchase a standalone fuel management system. Haltech F5 is a very good one, or i think Greddy has a few to pick from. But you can't do a turbo system without those 2 major components. Thats why i'm not doing a turbo, i'm doin a full air ride instead with 10 switches.
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Rep Power: 0 I have a question. Can this be done in stages, can u purchase/install the injectors and computer without causing any major problems. Funds are limited and if i could boost the civic i'd keep it! And would u recommend the 1 460injector or 4 320 injectors? Any help is appreciated. And riceburner are u running the returnless system?
Hey Barney did you get any check engine lights on because of the custom intake manifold. I got a custommanifold done to and my check engine light is on b/c there is no IAT sensor anymore.
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[hr]Originally posted by: RoadRunner
If your going to do a turbo setup, your gonna need to get a turbo manifold and a return fuel system. Those are the biggest problems with wanting to turbo our car's. The manifold, your gonna have to get custom made. I emailed revhard and they quoted that a custom made manifold would cost about 550 and take about 2 months to make. And your gonna need to purchase a standalone fuel management system. Haltech F5 is a very good one, or i think Greddy has a few to pick from. But you can't do a turbo system without those 2 major components. Thats why i'm not doing a turbo, i'm doin a full air ride instead with 10 switches.[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: RoadRunner
If your going to do a turbo setup, your gonna need to get a turbo manifold and a return fuel system. Those are the biggest problems with wanting to turbo our car's. The manifold, your gonna have to get custom made. I emailed revhard and they quoted that a custom made manifold would cost about 550 and take about 2 months to make. And your gonna need to purchase a standalone fuel management system. Haltech F5 is a very good one, or i think Greddy has a few to pick from. But you can't do a turbo system without those 2 major components. Thats why i'm not doing a turbo, i'm doin a full air ride instead with 10 switches.[hr]
FSRbikr98: You can use the injectors before the turbo, but you'll have to have them tuned... and it won't help you without boost anyways. So you might as well just buy them now, put them in the closet, and install and tune when you do the turbo. As for using one injector or 4 injectors... it's really personal preference. For up to about 12psi, the one additional injector is perfect, and the benefit of this is the driveability before boost and idling will be just as good as now. Won't be that smooth with all larger injectors without a lot of money in tuning.
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Rep Power: 0 For my custom intake manifold, I had them use the stock metal flange and weld a venom intake manifold to it. They cut the flange off the venom to weld it to mine. I still have my sensor and no check engine light came on. I have a venom fuel rail and bigger injectors with the a return fuel system.
Phil
Phil
El Pinche Turbo Mexicano
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Rep Power: 0 Barney or RiceBurnrEX where didi you get you turbos biutl, and what was the total cost, unfortunately no one in Monterrey(mexico) will do a turbo and i would have to travel to the US in order to get one, thanks...
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[hr]Originally posted by: CivicMexicano
Barney or RiceBurnrEX where didi you get you turbos biutl, and what was the total cost, unfortunately no one in Monterrey(mexico) will do a turbo and i would have to travel to the US in order to get one, thanks...[hr]
[hr]Originally posted by: CivicMexicano
Barney or RiceBurnrEX where didi you get you turbos biutl, and what was the total cost, unfortunately no one in Monterrey(mexico) will do a turbo and i would have to travel to the US in order to get one, thanks...[hr]
It was built by Tony at Jotech Motorsports in Dallas, TX.
