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Any port work, Camshaft, Intake manifold and general engine breathing questions you may have...post em here..I'll get to them whenever I can.

Cheers
Mohawk

 
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well ill get it started
what exactly is porting and polishing. What gains are to be expected

Whys my intake manifold so restrictive?

how can i make my engine breathe easier

whats different kinds of port work are there

whats a camshaft and what does modifying it do?

i know the answer to some of these but still...

 
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and how much does it cost to port and polish?

 
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Okay Port work is by essense further opening and motthing out your intake and exhaust ports for better air flow.

Polishing intake and exhaust ports hasn't been done since the 50's..they are left with a semi rough machine finish.. a fully polished surface for some reason of physics adds restriction to air flow...

As far as gains from a good Port job..minimal..mybe 3-5 HP.

The OEM intake manifolds are quite restrictive because they are basically a compressed "U" the air loses alot of velocity in changin directions from the throttle body..through the loop..then curving again into the cylinder... a Plenum style intake maniful with straight or even slightly curved runners will allow for MUCH better air flow.

You know what camshafts are [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

The reason why bolt-on's don't do much for our cars is because air veloicity still remains restricted from the intake manifold. Purely by swapping on a good Plenum type intake manifold our cars would experience significant gains from bolt-on parts.

Port work, a new manifold, a CAI, headers and exhaust should free up 20-25HP or so. For any further power, the fuel ratios in the car woud have to be leaned out and tweaked, as would ignition timing and different cam timing and lift.

This would require alot of money.. like a Hondata ECU( a D16hu can be made to work) MSD Ignition module, new camshaft(or regrind) and larger injectors. Once that's done...adding some higher compression pistons and a few hours of dyno tuning and you can have a 170-185HP N/A civic (with headers and full exhaust)

 
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well, the thing about why polishing isn't done anymore is because... when you port your head, it leaves it slightly rough, which creates a swirl and therefore a better air/fuel mixture.

 
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Polishing is still done... you want the swirl created INSIDE the piston chamber, to create better air/fuel mixture.

 
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The gains you see on a port/polish job will vary with each car and also by who ports/polishes it. (some use different angle cutback, different method, etc) Gain will also be affected by the modifications you have made. But yes, expect small gains on the D17. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

It takes a LOT to get 170-185hp out of an N/A D17 7th gen. They do not respond well to mods, partly because of the intake manifold, but also because honda does a decent job with all of its cars from the factory. The ECU is part of your hindering problem. However, even with ECU and many bolt ons, port/polish, etc, you will be hard pressed to put 150-160hp to the wheels. Now this doens't mean it can't be done, but it's something that requires quite a budget.

My information comes from seeing several N/A 7th gens dynos, as well as the characteristics I've learned about the D17 from various sources.

 
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Ports are never actually polished..they are alays left with a machined finnish..scrap your fingernail over it..you'll feel some itty bitty grooves from the dremel bit..

Also..170HP was attained by JUN on the concept civic with a new intake manifold..ecu programming, a new cam, and an exhaust system...

I'm talking 170-180 at the crank..[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

Also Port work can have a negative effect if not done properly..

The 170-180HP range I mentioned is with a new manifold, port work, new cam, new ignition system, new ecu, new pistons, cam gears, Headers, exhaust and Tuning on a dyno....most tuners would stop at port work and bolt-ons' and achieve about 140hp at the crank

End of the summer I'll have some Dyno sheets..(might not have all those mods done yet by then) but I'll definately be pushing over 120hp at the wheels (145ish crank)

 
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how long does a p & p the head take?
how much should i pay(ballpark figure) for a p & p on the head?

i wanna do it but my vic is my only car and if it takes a few days then i cant do it. if i had another car man i got the $$$$ for a turbo and stuff like that but then i wont be able to drive my car to school and work like i need to. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-tongue.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG] well i do work for a rental car company and as soon the time period is over where i can rent cars for dirt cheap i can get that work done. jsut gott wait. i hate waiting. grrrrrrrrrrrrr[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/IMG]

 
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takes 2 days...cost dpends on how good you want it done..

Anyone with a dremel can do it...but it doesn't mean it will be done right...and experienced engine builder should charge in the 500-800 dollar range depending on how much work you want done..like 3 angle valve job and such....

avoid any shops that do not have a flow bench!!!

 
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whats a flow bench? so go to a shop with a flow bench because?

 
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A flow bench is a device used to test how well the port/polish job is allowing air to flow.

Without it, a shop would be merely guessing as to whether or not they've made any improvement.

 
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man i learned alot today. keep it comin guys. knowledge is power

 
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I made this thread sticky. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

I may do my own P&P, but wouldn't I have to P&P the intake manifold as well? I mean, if I only enlarge the intake ports then that wouldn't flow too well. Right? So... Dremel eh? What tools do I use? Maybe a drill and some sort of bit? What bit? Like a grinding stone thingie, or a raspy thingie? Stone or metal? I guess I'll look for some P&P DIY's on the net.

 
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Grey,,,no..even stage 2 port jobs keep the port openings the same..they smooth off all curves and restricions and open up inside the port..

The stock intake manilf if cheap plastic..try using a dremel on it..you'll plug the big with melted plastic [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG].. a Stock D16 intake manifold flows almost 25% more than ours..

a B16 intake manifold flows over 50% more..

Funny though that a stock D16 head can potantially flow about 15% more air than a B series [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]..because the ports are Oval it's quite hard to make proper velocity stacks for the intake manifold..Stage 3 porting and rounding off the port would be needed...and at that point..you might as well be running ITB's (individual throttle bodies)

 
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will p & p the head, intake manifold, exhaust manifold, and whatever else you can p & p help with a turbo on the 7thgen? im just learning about p & p so jsut answer 4 me. still learning about cars. and i can jsut go to any ol shop to get a p & p done or is their somewhere specific i gotta go to? thanks

 
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You can DIY! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
This article explains it all: Standard Abrasives - DIY Cylinder Head Porting Guide
Read the whole thing, it's very good.

 
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mohhawkboom... next I think we should do a thread on exhaust.... and the myth of backpressure. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

 
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mohawkboom,

You are right about the intake manifold. I am going to get one developed by the guy who is doing a p&p, valve job, and valve train build up.

 
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The question is... Does anybody or will anybody be making a intake manifold for th 7th gens...

 
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Yup..I'm done with most of the measuring and I have all the parts needed to make it.. I'm still looking for the parts in aliminum though before I fabricate the steel one..

I posted a DIY link on it before


Also I'm waiting for an email back from a few companies that make custom manifolds for our cars..Skunk2 being the one I'm really hoping for

 
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keep us posted on the manifold[IMG]i/expressions/beer_yum.gif[/IMG]

 
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will do...but I woprk 55 hours a week and use my free time for other things..it' s gonna be a very slow going project

 
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how much did u buy all the material to do this port polish? and also how much gain approx
at the wheel power is going to be there?

 
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Port work gains very little..3-5HP at the very most on our cars..

I paid $52 for the parts for the intake manifold..just 2 feet of 1/4" x3" mild steel, 18 inches of 3" Exhaust tubing, 3ft of 1.5" Mild steel tubing, and a 1sq.ft sheet of 12 guage mild steel

 
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So about when u going to start ur projecT?

 
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hell if I know..depends on when I have a day off and my g/f is working and it's warm enough outside to take my intake manifold off and take the measurements I need...

 
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so you are building a new "high flow" manifold or intake pipe? not a mechanic, but if I am not mistaken the manifold is the part on top of the engine that sri or cai attaches too.

chris

 
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Good stuff, I got a lot info out of this thread, thanks.
I'm concidering a project, my engine is starting to use some oil, nothing bad but I don't like.
I wanted fixed, is under warranty but I have a lot of bolt on parts and NOS and Honda basicaly can decline.
I depend on my car for work and such. I can have it on the shop for too long.
So, I'm thinking on buying a use D engine may be a v-tech for an EX.
(my car has a manual transaxle and a non v-tech)
Have it at my friends shop and work on it outside the car and with no rush.
I'll keep checking this thread for more info.
I may even contact you for help.
Any one has or know some one that has an used D engine please PM me.

 
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hey supermex check www.car-part.com they have a number of d17's from various sources, good luck!