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in japanland yeah i'm pretty sure it did. that being said finding an auto tranny will be fun to find. why not go with a b16 5 speed trans? why automatic?

 
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Says the man with 16 posts.

 
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To Running Riot: My car is an automatic and I don't have the $ right know to do what i would need to do to make it a manual. I am running on a really limited budget here and am trying to make it on what I can...if I can't find a B18c1 with an auto tranny for about 1200, than I am just going to do what I can to build up my D16y7 and be content with that.

Sidenote: Also..If I throw on a new exhaust system and redo all the ignition components, would anyone have any ideas about how many gains in HP that I would get for that?? DC Race headers with a magnaflow cat back exhaust system and All MSD ignition components, Distributor Cap, Rotor, Ignition Coil, Iridium Spark plugs and a MSD Street Fire Ignition, with a Spectre Short-ram intake (Which I already have)..total, all the produtcs would be close to 1050. Would anyone know about how many gains in HP that would give me?? Thanks!!

- a young enthusiast, looking to learn!!! :hgri n:

 
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ZERO need to upgrade your ignition unless it were to replace worn or bad parts. even then use oem replacement parts for the ignition. You will get unmeasurable gains most likely when upgrading the ignition system on a N/A d16 with only a header and intake bolted on. Realistic gains 5-15hp????

 
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get an intake and exhaust and call it a day!

 
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kool..thanks guys!!

 
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All the US b18c1's are manual. All the honda performance engines are manuals. If you want a automatic, you can either get a jdm b18c1 which came in auto but are rare or a b18b which is a integra ls.

If you really need a auto, it'll probably cheaper just to sell your civic and buy a integra ls which came in auto stock.

 
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They did offer a jdm gsr with a auto tranny. It had a lower redline and lower hp then the manual. Its some what rare. I see them every once in awhile on ebay.

All the USDM gsr's a manuals.

 
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i have a p30 b16 block that ill be selling soon to work on my b18 frankenstein. JUST did a compression test and it scored 210 210 210 210 (about 10.4-10.6 compression) with compression test done CORRECTLY and I have a virgin just about complete GSR head that i'm getting ready to sell for pretty cheap. I mean like 900 or so dollars for the block and head. You would just need a head gasket, it has ARP head studs so you wont need to replace them, i have a p72-00 (JDM GSR) ecu that ill sell with it that would give you some extra room to find a trans for it and you could be DOHC swapped for your 1200 budget.

 
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Lol this guy is funny, there is a huge difference in the d16 and the b16. Its to much to right down in words really you could just go on and on. The only motors even worth doing something with is the b series, k series. Those d series will never get to where they do. Ya the d series might be better with turbo while the b is still stock but what happens when the b series goes turbo the d gets blown away.

Since it would be easier to swap it into your em1 then i would say go with the b18c1, the k series would really be a hassle. But stock with the gsr you should be running round 144.8 whp and 109.2 lb-ft trq. With the 3 simple bolt ons you could be up to 175 whp easy. Then after that its whatever you decide to do NA or FI.

 
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im putting that motor up for sale in the next few days lmk

 
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First post here, I joined today bc I am going to look at a 98 hatch tomorrow and I saw this thread. I have never owned a Honda and I have only changed a light bulb or two on a friends RSX. I have, though, read alot about Honda engine engineering and I think everyone here would enjoy the read if not then honestly this is the wrong forum to be on but I digress. Just click the link below and school yourself and enjoy. Read it all there is a nice bit of insight on A-VTEC (Advanced VTEC) at the end.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...ogy/index.html

 
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Here's a d16 build that I just started reading.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t...6a6/index.html

 
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Dont know why you posted that, i am sure that most of us knows how it works and when it was originated. And i am sure that some of us read these magazines.

 
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"Of course, we know the results, but the time spent developing VTEC proved to be as fascinating as the final product. Take the camshaft gears for example, engineers elected to build these out of a new high-strength sintered alloy for a thinner profile and a 10-percent lower moment of inertia. The intake valves were increased to 33mm, a then unheard of size for such a small engine. The VTEC valve timing and lift specs were similar to race-only engines of that period. To prevent breakage, VTEC camshafts were made from a completely new high-carbon, high-chrome cast steel alloy, which was given a combination of heat and surface treatments. Even the exhaust valves were made of nickel-based, heat-resistant steel combined with molybdenum, titanium, and tungsten-not your average mid-'80s, economy car technology. And all of this had to be durable. This is perhaps where Kajitani's team did its greatest work. Gearboxes, crankshafts, and many other Honda components have become legendary for the abuse they can handle. "That's why we so thoroughly carried out our malicious tests," Kajitani said. "We were very near the point of overdoing it." Building a VTEC pin-engagement system that could endure 400,000 cycles is arguably a masochistic endeavor."

^ That is why I posted that. It points out the over engineering put into VTEC. There is a difference between VTEC and non VTEC and a major reason they take such a beating is the materials that Honda used to make the components in it. By reading that article comments like the one below would be avoided. I get what he was saying, that with money you can get power out of any engine, but his argument was flawed. Saying that "All they are is an engine with different sensors and stuff. The major thing that is different from the d16 to every other Honda engine is that it isn't Vtec." Is ignoring the major differences in materials used along with all of the other differences in design. If you read the second article I posted you will see that within the D-series there are different bolt patterns between the D16 and D17 heads. They maxed out at 171hp by the way. Of course more power can be made just read the article if you haven't and you will see why and what they did to get to that point.

 
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theyre good articles

 
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Yes you have a point and you basically said it all there, i didnt feel like making a big paragraph myself on how the d is different from the b. I just made it short and sweet lol, i said that the d is way different from the b so different that it would take forever to explain it here. They are different in every way. D940 needs to get his **** straight, he tried to tell us off thinking he knows everything well he dont, i am not even a real mechanic on my way to be one but i know more than him.

And yes the d series you can get power out of it but it takes alot of work to do that, i read that article and ya they did alot of work to make it to 171 hp. The compression was like 13 something geez. But still all that work and that d series is just now where my k20a3 is at. I mean ya they can be fast and all but just saying.

And yes they are very good articles i have read quite a bit of them myself.

 
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if anyone has ever been in or driven a built b-series with vtec, wow. get ready to be thrown back in the seat when the vtec kicks in. its nothing like the newer i-vtec engines that you barely feel. or the d series vtec thats like nothing.

 
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Yes i have been in a buit b series i use to have a built gsr in a eg6 and i had a built em1 with the stock motor b16a2. I had alot done to them and ya you are right the vtec in them are crazy when they kick in. But have you rode in a k series with true ivtec, was it the k20a3 or k20a2 cause the k20a3 does not have true ivtec if it did then it would be faster.

 
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yeah thats true, ive only been in the a3 and it didnt feel as strong. with hondata reflash, you cant feel it at all, very smooth which is how its supposed to be for smooth power delivery, but takes the fun out of it

 
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Ya so you have not felt real ivtec yet. There are different types of ivtec there is ivtec-e and ivtec. ivtec is in the k20a2 and k20a, the ivtec-e is in the k20a3. ivtec-e is not true ivtec.

I-vtec-e is intelligent variable valve timing and electronic lift efficiency. This ivtec kicks in at 2200 rpms so you can not feel it or even hear the change over. Ya its pretty gay, but true ivtec kicks in at the 5000 rpm range like it is suppose to and feels like vtec. True ivtec is faster and better than vtec.

The difference in these is that in i-vtec there is 3 lobes on the camshaft and 2 of them are the lobes that initiates the vtec. I-vtec-e the camshaftes only has 2 lobes and only 1 lobe to initiate vtec. Ya its pretty confusing and there is alot more to it to.

 
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and speaking of b series with goodies here's mine!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=170441886547
and it's for sale! (selfish plant)

so buy it. now. somebody. please?

 
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Main difference is where the tq comes in. The majority of tq comes in at the vtec cross over point in the B series. Thats why it in way it feels like a turbo just kicked in because at 4500rpm + all the engines tq starts coming in.

In the K series around 90% of the tq is achieve in the early rpms which gives off a more linear tq curve. This is better for performance but not as fun..lol.

I think honda performance engine development stopped around 2003. Now its all emissions and mpg tech.

A lot of other manufacturers have vtec now. Even the new v6 mustang has vtec...i think they call it Ti-Vac.

Bmw has vanos and vanotronic. Even my mercedes has vtec, except it doesn't crap except help me pass emissions and give me slightly better mpg.

 
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just stop talking dude. seriously the more you say the more ignorant you come across as. Nobody else has VTEC, nobody has anything close with the except of the MIVEC only it doesn't have true variable CAMtiming on both intake and exhaust.

VVT-i (toyota) varies the timing of the intake valves by adjusting the relationship between the camshaft drive and intake camshaft. (i.e. no change in exhaust timing and no lift variation at all)
VANOS (BMW) VANOS varies the timing of the valves by moving the position of the camshafts in relation to the drive gear. This movement varies from 6 degrees of advanced to 6 degrees of retarded camshaft timing. (no variable lift and variable timing is only on intake)
MIVEC (mitsubishi by far the closest) varies the timing, lift and duration of the valves by using two different camshaft profiles. (Actually varies the lift of the valves but again, only on intake side)
NVCT (nissan) varies the timing of the valves by rotating the cam shaft(s); valve lift and duration are NOT altered.


what the hell do you mean the tech stopped in 2003?! i-Vtec improved the vtec engagement and virtually eliminated the loss of pumping efficiency experienced in the B series when VTEC engaged. The crank timing on some i-Vtecs can change as much as 50 degrees. But I guess your right, the tech stopped right?

from honda's fact-book:
the i-vtec design enhances the benefits of vtec by adding variable timing control (vtc). vtc is a hybraulically operated system that controls the phasing, or timing, of the chain-driven camshaft, advancing or retarding it on the intake cycle. The i-VTEC system utilizes Honda's proprietary VTEC sytem and adds VTC (Variable Timing Control), which allows for dynamic/continuous intake valve timing and overlap control. (read http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/)

thirdly, the entire POINT of the development of VTEC was to have an engine that is FUEL EFFICIENT and POWER EFFICIENT simultaneously. The point was never to build a 10 second race car so of course Honda is going to implement new techs that will yield improved emissions AND performance. Honda's mission statement is (paraphrasing but directly from the company's website) "to produce a product, automobile, motorcycle, generator or airplane, that is environmentally responsible and competitive with the demands of consumers"

for my fourth point i'll let the pictures do the talking

observe flat torque lines and observe small dip in power around vtec engagement. (oh yeah and observe hp ownage of b16vsd16)
B18c1 you ask? sure!

B18c5? Why not?!
http://batlground.com/gallery/albums...ned/DouITR.jpg
Now observe smooth power through vtec engagement


I will say this though, at least your not as dumb as these tards.
http://www.mitsubishi-forums.com/ind...pic=14077&st=0

 
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while i was researching for ^ post i came across this for ecotec. top few posts are pretty hilarious. Just some random linking to make y'all laugh.

http://hondaswap.com/members-lounge/ecotec-21743/

 
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I said they stopped producing performance engines after 2003 because the K series came out around 2002-2003 which included the ivtec. Name another performance honda engine thats come out since then?

The next gen nsx with the v10 was going to be it. But honda canned that. A-vtec was suppose to be huge step forward that they could never get working.


BMW does offer variable life and variable timing on both the intake and exhaust. Just look up Valvetronic in the new BMW N55 engine.

I already stipulated that Honda is the really the only one that uses vtec to help with performance, mainly to compensate for the low tq and low displacement of there engines in comparison to there competitors. Everyone else pretty much uses it for emissions and mpg

Think about it...in 2003, honda had one of the most advanced i4's in production with k20 and f20c.


Now they even got beat out VW by being the first to offer Direct Injection in a I4.

Direct Injection is what honda should be offering now. Vtec was great for when it came out but they already achieved what they set out to do with it. Its a mature technology and they should move onto something else.

Direct Injection offers fuel efficency, low emissions and free hp.

Vtec is essential just a variable valve timing system. You can split hairs on how each manufacturer implements it but there essentially the same. Even the new v6 mustang will offer it.

 
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i could be mistaken, but didn't the k20 in the ep3 have direct port fuel injection? the Stream (never made it to the US) had it too in 2003.

Direct Port Fuel Injection isn't new either, goes back as far as 1925. My civic LX guaranteed got better fuel economy 6 years ago then ANY VW with direct port today. My b16 civic probably gets the same MPG as the VW and is probably faster too.
Maybe VW should concentrate more on making timing belts that don't snap at 30,000miles resulting in a class action lawsuit rather than positioning the injector at the dome of the combustion chamber for an extra mpg or two. Even if VW implemented direct port fuel injection first, why would you need to change a system that wasn't broken to begin with? class leading fuel economy and world record displacement to power ratios. You can also compare the difference in price between a VW and a Honda, not only on the lot but in the shop. So VW beat Honda to Direct Port injection, the Russians beat us into space, but we still kicked their *** in everything else.

Aside from Honda's advancements in powerplant technology, is their advancement in the automotive platform in general. Lane stability management, SH-AWD (only system that allows 100% power transfer diagonally across the differential) driver alertness sensor, variable cruise control, variable climate control, variable impact crush zones on the new acuras. How about being the first manufacturer to implement "safety for everybody". Honda launched it in the early 2000s as a means to reduce pedestrian injury in the event of a vehicle vs. pedestrian shootout? why do you think honda redesigned the hoods of the civic and accords etc? for pedestrian safety. Or how about the RL's ability to detect wether a pedestrian or an animal will cross your path based on your trajectory and current speed... from over 100 yards away? How about Hondas variable motor assist system in the hybrids? HOW ABOUT THE FACT THAT HONDA IS THE FIRST MAJOR AUTOMOTIVE MANUFACTURER TO OFFER A HYDROGEN FUEL CELL VEHICLE?! I dare call that a zenith in auto technology.

A-vtec is currently awaiting a patent. It does work, will not be implemented until patented. Besides, it took years to develop such an enormous leap in auto tech, the newest step won't come for another decade at least. Think of it this way, everyone else is just now catching up to a technology Honda nearly perfected 30 years ago.... and they are still not exactly on that level. Wow it took Ford almost 30 years JUST to put OHCs on the mustang. lame.

There is a very distinct difference between variable valve timing and variable valve lift. It's also called a patent, meaning no one can copy the exact design for a certain period of time. That time may have passed, yet still nobody has been able to replicate Honda's VTEC tech. Like i said before MIVEC is close. It's not splitting a **** hair, its two completely different things, variable valve timing is just that changing valve timing. Changing valve lift is distinctly altering the gap between the valve head and the intake port.

i-Vtec now has the ability to alter CRANK timing in correlation to cam timing. Who else does that? I would call the ability to vary the crank timing while compensating for cam timing, while doing 8k rpm for 400,000 cycles just to pass Honda's testing requirements, a pretty big leap forward. Not to mention these engines run for hundreds of thousands of miles. Again, I'd say pretty far ahead.

as for the N55, the Valvetronic system is a variable valve timing system to offer continuously variable timing (on both intake and exhaust camshafts) along with continuously variable intake valve lift, from ~0 to 10 mm, and duration on the intake camshaft only

Close. But close only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.

 
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^ you should watch the film "who killed the electric car" its very interesting how this shift in engine technology occurred with electric, hydrogen, etc.

 
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2006 k20z3 or am i wrong.

 
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yeah the newer civic SI 06+