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Hey guys,
I got a quick question about compression and forced induction. Now i know theres so many threads about F.I. but mine is kinda different. I was lookin around the internet when I came across the compression ratio for a 2000 Si. Its like 10.2:1! I was curious about this when you can probably go to any shop and they will find some sort of F.I. for the 2000 Si within 10 minutes. I also know about the hardness of the returnless fuel system and such, but why is it so easy for 2000 Si's to get a little F.I. goodness and not our cars or does compression not really matter? Thanks for the help in advanced. later.

 
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I dunno much about returnless fuel systems. but I know that with compression the higher the compression, the more susceptible to detonation with a forced induction system....therefore the lower the compression the higher boost you can run. the higher the boost the less compression you can run. I hope I didn;t tell you anything you already knew.

 
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Its not just compression, our engines are newer and are also ULEV (low emissions) thus it takes time to develop a system and also alot of obstacle with keeping it street legal with ULEV restrictions. I think?? Peace

 
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just one question that I have about ULEV besides what it is and the purpose. Hey only us californias have this kind of strict emissions crap??? but anyways i was just wondering, is the whole ULEV mechanical or is it in the ECU. as in any way to bypass it? I know its a dumb question but I've always been interested in finding out. thanx, peace

 
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Pretty much if some brand name company does come out with Forced Induction in the near future (hopefully HKS and/or RevHard) for our car it will probably not be street legal because compared to the 2000 civ our stock fuel injectors are about 30% smaller and this means to change to forced induction a change to bigger and beefier injectors will also be required, thus most likely surpassing the ULEV standards and all that pollution stuff so that it will have to be for offroad use only.

note: when i called HKS a while ago, the guy told me they probably were not going to produce the turbo kit for our car because of the fact that it would not be street legal and he said HKS is trying to sale only street legal turbo kits and engine mods (for increased profit reasons obviously) [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-cool.gif[/IMG]

 
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ulev effects the whole "thingamijig" (my 72 year old neighbors favorite word when looking at a new higher tech engine)

Higher base compression = even higher fi compression = can cause detonation unless your boosting your octane

returnless fuel system = doesn't give the kind of fuel pressure we need for some good FI, uh, goodness [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] (right?)

 
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it's all about the blitz supercharger that might be coming out soon... [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

 
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I dont really understand this, but lets see if I'm right.

Because of ULEV, even though our compression is 9.9:1; and the 2000 Si is 10.2:1; its harder to make forced induction products because of ULEV? It still doesnt make any sense to me if thats true. 2000 Si's have higher compression but you can find F.I. for it easier than finding cow sh*t in a cow's a$$, but our compression is even lower than that, but because of ULEV, we can basically say fu*k off to any F.I. for our engines. I am really confused about this, help me out if you can explain it easier. thanks.

 
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no...the 7th gen civic has a completely new engine in it...and engine not previously used. Thus nobody really knows much about them and because of the ULEV the companies are staying away and heading more towards the SI and RSX engines because they will provide better power gains, and the work put into developing the F.I product will be much more profitable. It is all about economics...most people buy civics to have the economy class high mpg....they aren;t pocket rockets unless you put in a lot of money and I mean a lot....

On the other hand, the RSX, and the SI are more performance based vehicles...the picket rocket..but at 9k over invoice I'd much rather buy an s2k rather then an si...but because these cars are performance based they feel that people buying them will be more willing to drop forced induction products into the engine bays, unlike what poeple with civics will do.... like I said it is all economics.

What really gets me is everyone wants a turbo but if you look at what has been developed and the 5th gen and the si from 6th gen only have f.i products out.

But why the 5th gen EX? It is because the value of the car now is so low that poeple wont think twice about dropping a turbo into the engine.
Why the 99'-00' si? Because the b16 rocks! Also because the Si is geared for performance.

I would love to have a turbo charged civic, but at the same time the costs aren;t worth it to me.

 
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If you start of with 10.5 compression after the F.I is going you'll be more like 13.5 (not science just example) way too much. Which is why a lot of turboed, supercharged even nitrous are happy at 8.5

 
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everyone has said it, basically, but yeah, an engine with a low compression and a high boost is alot better on teh engine than one with high compression and low boost (and youll find its the faster car in teh end, all other things held constant)

this is why the GSR is a better engine for forced induction than the type R engine. in fact, ive heard stories of people getting the GSR block, and putting LS heads on it to further reduce compression, so they can run higher boosts.

but yeah, if you do engine internals to help support forced induction, then you wanna LOWER the compression as much as possible, so you can jack up teh boost as much as is thermally possible.

 
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sorry to jump in but, i have questions........
1...Our cars are ULEV right....(obviously).....and thats the main reason why no companies are going to make FI???????
Or is it that everyone (except us) bought the cars cause they were ULEV and they are old grandmas and crap that really dont give a sheit about turbo ect.ect??????

Or if it is that ULEV is hard to wrok around and thats why we see no gains w/ I/H/E........
if thats the case then whats so hard about working around the ULEV???????

and, are cars are one of the most cleaniest cars on the road, if a turbo brings our emisiions down some how is that illegal????......it'd be like us driving 95' civics instead of clean **** 01's???????? right???
so how come you cant make a Legal one........If they made an Illegal one would our emissions and polution rate be the same as an older car???????..................
because if thats the case, thats B.S................
well anyway, peace.
trevor
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The reason retunrless fuel system is not exactly compatible with FI is because it is not a variable rate. EX- 10psi of fuel at idle, 10 psi of fuel at full on boost. Not a good thing!