Intake Manifold R&D
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From: Bossier City, LA
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Intake Manifold R&D
I have been looking in to intake manifolds for a while now. On the previouse civics Venom makes a basic box with runners on it much like the KMS manifold for our cars. We all know the KMS manifold has fallen short of our hopes for an aftermarket replacement. But that is for N/A. If wanting to stay all motor I dont see why you would want to stray from a already perfect designed manifold. By far the stock manifold out performs all out there for N/a consernse. But what does that leave us boosted people that just dont trust a plastic manifold under high boost pressure. Basics of a manifold are easy. Opening, Plenum, and runners. No manifold on the market states that they are best for FI. thay all just claim gains and most come through. The question I have for everyone is how much does the runner length come in to play under FI conditions. If i have it right we want the air to fill the cyl. as fast as possible with little resistance. Now the Y8 manifold or venom counterpart is great for you that have right side mounted charge pipes. But what about us that have left side charge pipes? What are we to do. If the KMS manifold is basicly a box with small runners wouldnt that be great for FI. Shorter air travel, smaller plenum, and sturdy. I just have dont see a better way to keep the top mounted TB and have a sturdier manifold. Don't get me wrong the KMS manifold does look like somthing I made in shop class but the mechanics and simplicity are about right. If others can shed some light on this subject please do. I think maybe if we all get together and make this a reallity someone is bound to build it. I for one want the Top mounted TB but many others dont seem to mind the side.
If you dont have anything intelligent to say please dont post. I would like to have ideas from people that have the same thoughts and come together and design a great product. Maybe even one for FI and another for N/A.
Your thoughts?
If you dont have anything intelligent to say please dont post. I would like to have ideas from people that have the same thoughts and come together and design a great product. Maybe even one for FI and another for N/A.
Your thoughts?
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From: ~Nor Cal~209~
Rep Power: 289 Stephen I can recall a post recently in which someone was selling a KMS manifold and they were saying how it is great for boosted cars...someone on here has to verify the validity of this, seems to me shorter runners with a larger collector is the ticket!!
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From: ~Nor Cal~209~
Rep Power: 289 That was the thread I was speaking of...I seen your post!! If not you may be able to talk Lance into making you one! He is doing my Header now...I will get you your mani back next week sometime!!
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Bossier City, LA
Rep Power: 298 Ok so after looking in to it more. the venom manifold says is is for FI and High modded N/A motors. Now the design of the Venom and the KMS are the same, Openning, Box, Runners. The runners on the Venom are about 1'' longer though. Well best i could tell lookinf a pictures. So runner length deos not seem that big an issue for FI. Wanting the air to travel to the cyl as fast as posible and as easy. So my conclustion is that for FI you are no better of buying the venom IM that the KMS one, functionally speeking. Now for looks by far the Venom wins. But $400 for the KMS compaired to close to $1500 for the venom to get it to work. I'll go with the KMS. Thats just me though.
I would like to see some designs you guys come up with. I am working on one now. Should post it up shortly.
I would like to see some designs you guys come up with. I am working on one now. Should post it up shortly.
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From: Bossier City, LA
Rep Power: 298 So here is my first design for the plenum.
just something quick I drew up.
just something quick I drew up.
Last edited by CrewChief; Jul 2, 2007 at 05:49 PM.
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From: Delaware
Rep Power: 282 ok so here it is.
ive been boosted with the stock plastic Intake manifold. now, i am boosted with the KMS intake manifold:
1st: for everyone who says that this is a piece of junk that was made in some dudes garage, you obviously are going with the general thought that everyone who hasent seen or held it in person would say. cause i thought the same, until i picked it up, and looked at the craftsmanship. it fits perfectly onto the head, all gasket valleys are machined perfectly, and its sturdy, and the welds are nice. so until you have had one in your hands, you dont know ****.
2nd: stock manifold vs. KMS intake manifold for boost is like saying SRT-10 vs. S10. ive noticed a hell of a difference in all ways with the new intake. the boost is quicker and stronger and more constant. boost is basically dead-heading against the bottom of the stock intake manifold, on top of the fact that there is about 20 inches of runner it has to travel up and down before heading into the cylinder.
3rd: i bought it off another member of this site for 200 bucks. its the best mod ive done on the car yet, for FORCED INDUCTION.
4th: poor design poor design???? how is a plenum with short 2 inch runners for a boosted application poor design, ohh thats right, cause it isnt powder coated and has no venom sticker on it.
ive been boosted with the stock plastic Intake manifold. now, i am boosted with the KMS intake manifold:
1st: for everyone who says that this is a piece of junk that was made in some dudes garage, you obviously are going with the general thought that everyone who hasent seen or held it in person would say. cause i thought the same, until i picked it up, and looked at the craftsmanship. it fits perfectly onto the head, all gasket valleys are machined perfectly, and its sturdy, and the welds are nice. so until you have had one in your hands, you dont know ****.
2nd: stock manifold vs. KMS intake manifold for boost is like saying SRT-10 vs. S10. ive noticed a hell of a difference in all ways with the new intake. the boost is quicker and stronger and more constant. boost is basically dead-heading against the bottom of the stock intake manifold, on top of the fact that there is about 20 inches of runner it has to travel up and down before heading into the cylinder.
3rd: i bought it off another member of this site for 200 bucks. its the best mod ive done on the car yet, for FORCED INDUCTION.
4th: poor design poor design???? how is a plenum with short 2 inch runners for a boosted application poor design, ohh thats right, cause it isnt powder coated and has no venom sticker on it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Bossier City, LA
Rep Power: 298 Thats my thoughts exactly. poeple are sheep and always will be. Glad you came here to prove what I thought all along. The KMS IM is great for FI. Bravo. Cant wait to get my own. That is if I can find one.
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From: Boise, Idaho
Rep Power: 328 would it be possible for you to take a picture looking down between the TPS and the fuel rail? Im curious if there is any additional room there for taller injectors?
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Originally Posted by tfnaaf
would it be possible for you to take a picture looking down between the TPS and the fuel rail? Im curious if there is any additional room there for taller injectors?
lol, im gonna take it off and get it powdercoated black and put a venom sticker on it so the other members on this site would give me props..
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Originally Posted by robo1040
there is since it uses the stock fuel injector and rail plate. if anyting, there is more room since the KMS intake is alot smaller then the pumpkin plastic thing that comes stock.
lol, im gonna take it off and get it powdercoated black and put a venom sticker on it so the other members on this site would give me props..
lol, im gonna take it off and get it powdercoated black and put a venom sticker on it so the other members on this site would give me props..
Once you go Black on Black, You Never Go Back.
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Originally Posted by tfnaaf
Im mainly interested in the specific room between the fuel rail and the Throttle pisition sensor? And what injectors are you running currently? As far as powder coating IMO i would polish it, and not do a sticker
ohh. im using stock injectors at the moment.
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From: Middleboro,MA
Rep Power: 297 I dont think that the KMS is crap but there is room for improvement. Even the venom isnt all that great, its really best suited for an engine with larger demands for air than our motors typically need. You really need to tailor manifolds to a particular setup. You should have noticed a good gain in torque because you gained plenum size. Your top end should be slightly better because of the shorter runners. They are a lil too short in my opinion though for a d17 with a stock ECU that is piggybacked. I made that JDM Fabtech manifold and I regret selling it. I am making another one very similar in construction this winter, the d16y8 manifold is holding me back, the plenum is too small and the diameter of the runners are a lil too small for my particular setup.
maybe someday 
DONT PANIC
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From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 286 I have a tig welder. And tons of experience.
Im building one. Its going to be much different than anything i have seen on the 7thgens so far.
Think more along the lines of sean carlson. If you can figure out what that means, then you know what my manifold will look like.
i love being a SEMA member! Going to SEMA every year has given me a lot of good ideas.
Im building one. Its going to be much different than anything i have seen on the 7thgens so far.
Think more along the lines of sean carlson. If you can figure out what that means, then you know what my manifold will look like.
i love being a SEMA member! Going to SEMA every year has given me a lot of good ideas.
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From: Boise, Idaho
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Originally Posted by turboengnr
I have a tig welder. And tons of experience.
Im building one. Its going to be much different than anything i have seen on the 7thgens so far.
Think more along the lines of sean carlson. If you can figure out what that means, then you know what my manifold will look like.
i love being a SEMA member! Going to SEMA every year has given me a lot of good ideas.
Im building one. Its going to be much different than anything i have seen on the 7thgens so far.
Think more along the lines of sean carlson. If you can figure out what that means, then you know what my manifold will look like.
i love being a SEMA member! Going to SEMA every year has given me a lot of good ideas.
DONT PANIC
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From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 286 just to straighten out some facts:
Longer runners = more low end torque, dies up top
Shorter Runners = More high end, lacks down low
Smaller plenum = more low end torque
Larger plenum = more high end power
Think of the Tuned Port Chevy motor (1985 vettes). They have very long runners, and a small plenum. The plenum was actually designed to make a lot of low end torque on the 305 camaros. Then since they already had the part, they put it on the 350 vette.
My vette only revs to ~6000. Optimum shift point is ~5200. If i get it rolling without using any throttle, and let it idle down the street and punch it, it will smoke the tires til i let off the throttle. And im running Ecsta V710's.
It would even do that stock. And they only made 230 hp yet made 330 tq off the showroom floor.
If you put the LT1 intake manifold on it (larger plenum, shorter runners) you lose more than 50 ft/lbs, but gain around 50 hp. And you can rev the car past 6k on an otherwise stock car.
Longer runners = more low end torque, dies up top
Shorter Runners = More high end, lacks down low
Smaller plenum = more low end torque
Larger plenum = more high end power
Think of the Tuned Port Chevy motor (1985 vettes). They have very long runners, and a small plenum. The plenum was actually designed to make a lot of low end torque on the 305 camaros. Then since they already had the part, they put it on the 350 vette.
My vette only revs to ~6000. Optimum shift point is ~5200. If i get it rolling without using any throttle, and let it idle down the street and punch it, it will smoke the tires til i let off the throttle. And im running Ecsta V710's.
It would even do that stock. And they only made 230 hp yet made 330 tq off the showroom floor.
If you put the LT1 intake manifold on it (larger plenum, shorter runners) you lose more than 50 ft/lbs, but gain around 50 hp. And you can rev the car past 6k on an otherwise stock car.
Last edited by turboengnr; Sep 7, 2005 at 12:33 AM.
DONT PANIC
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Originally Posted by tfnaaf
I went to the sema show for 3 years in a row back when i was a manufactures sales rep. Was the coolest, most fun thing ive ever done. Been thinking about doing it again one of these years for kicks
I will be going there this year. its a lot of fun.
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From: Boise, Idaho
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Originally Posted by turboengnr
I will be going there this year. its a lot of fun.
, I always enjoyed looking at all the real custom stuff, one offs, or prototype stuff. Like you said its a awesome place to go to get ideas. Any true car fanatic should go atleast one time in thier life. 
Registered!!
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From: Middleboro,MA
Rep Power: 297 Those manifolds cost a lot for me to make. I cant afford to be a vendor here so I dont wanna try to sell my stuff on this site. I am so over-burdened with work it would take at least 3 weeks to think about turning one around anyway. I dont wanna get into the hassles of selling prototype parts of that caliber to others via the internet. I dont want anyone to hate me if they cant figure out how to get it to work or if it doesnt help them at all. I sold that one to some dude that was gunna use it for a dirrect port, he never got back to me to let me know how it worked. I reget selling that thing every day.
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Originally Posted by turboengnr
I have a tig welder. And tons of experience.
Im building one. Its going to be much different than anything i have seen on the 7thgens so far.
Im building one. Its going to be much different than anything i have seen on the 7thgens so far.
DONT PANIC
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From: California, Palmdale
Rep Power: 286 not finished yet.
My shoulder injury really slows down the fabrication process.
i can only work for 15-20 mins before i have to stop for the rest of the day. Yesterday i welded in a little patch on the body of the 56. It was about 4" long and 2" tall. After welding that little piece in, my shoulder was killing me.
My shoulder injury really slows down the fabrication process.
i can only work for 15-20 mins before i have to stop for the rest of the day. Yesterday i welded in a little patch on the body of the 56. It was about 4" long and 2" tall. After welding that little piece in, my shoulder was killing me.
