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Hey guys, I don't have a car as of this moment, but I plan to get my first car in a couple months, and I'm lookin into a 03 civic si. But I've heard that it doesn't truly have i-vtec or something like that. I've heard you don't really feel it, but can you at least hear it kick in?That sound of angry hornets in your engine. If not, why is that? I've driven and felt vvtli in my friends GTS and i-vtec in my friends type s, and i love both of em. For those of you who have driven or driven in either of those cars, how does the Si compare? Pretty much, I just wanna hear the pros and cons from you owners of the 02-03 si. thnx. =)

 
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i have an 04. the ivtec kicks on at 2200 rpm (dont ask me why, im sure, but this is what ive read) but....i originally thought it was at 5-5500 cause when the motor gets up there, it pulls alot harder cause it creates more power, but its not vtec.

i love my si, tho i miss my fully done 01 that i shouldnt have sold, im not regreting it anymore cause the si is such more fun to drive. its also very different. ive seen maybe 8 on the road since i bought mine in june and its nice to pull into a show against one or two other and not 6 or 7.

i love the shifter (takes time to get used to), love the factory seats (recaros) and definately responds to mods better and has more kick than my 01 did.

go test drive one and see for yourself, take a look at the 04's for the hell of it too. bigger wheels, different head/tail lights, factory sideskirts, 5-lug and they produce a better look than the 02-03 (IMO)

just my .02

 
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DO IT. I love my 04 Si. I hadn't driven a manual shift for a good 6 yrs. so maybe the adjustment to the dash shifter was less dramatic for me. I love it there none the less. The changes for the 04 version simply make a more attractive Si. Addressing v-tec, it is very much real, but it is designed into this engines cylinder head on the intake cam only, other v-tec engines have both intake and exhaust v-tec-ized. My car is a blast to drive, i honestly haven't experienced driving any other v-tec engine. The contains the same engine w/ v-tec on both intake and exhaust via a different head which i'm guessing, to the ambitions could be swapped easily enough. I've only had mine a few months, but i enjoy driving it everyday. Some people have likened the Si to the Odyssey. I see a resemblence. I also see a completely unique Honda as well. All the critics seem to feel that it doesn't beat it's competitors in any individual catagory, but that the whole package far outweighs the competition. I'll just add also that the Si tranny in my opinion is second to none. The clutch action is almost effortless in comparison to other manuals i've driven, and the synchro's work like nothing i've ever driven. I swear this powertrain begs to be downshifted, even w/ very little if any throttle blip (by the way owners manual says it is fine to do this) like i needed any reassurance. All i really wish for is bigger wheels and wider tires. The stock ones are decent, a step up from last year, but still a larger contact patch would be nice. I will probably upgrade these and other parts of the car as time goes on. A Quaife lsd sounds like a sweet mod i might go for as well.

 
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oh btw, minor things i've noticed, 5th gear feels like an ever so slight stretch, and if fuel economy is important to you avoid excessive downshifting, i noticed and it's quite logical that downshifting (engine braking) really sucks down the gas. i'd guess that whole hearted downshift, and same time brake use will bring ya to a stop at possibly 30-40 percent shorter distance.

 
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ok, for one thing its VTEC or i-VTEC

now, heres the deal with these Si's(EP3 chassis code)

let me explain VTEC briefly to you. VTEC= Variable Timing and lift Electronicly Controlled.

"so what does that mean?"
It means that based on pre determined amounts of RPM, load, etc. the computer can determine how much valve lift is needed and when, in order to achieve a balance of power and fuel economy. the i in i-VTEC means that the engine is also equipped with VTC(Variable Timing Control).

for example, on a 2002-2005 Civic Si, below 2200 rpm the motor is "off" VTEC the motor only opens 3 of the 4 valves in each cylinder(1 intake[VTEC controlled], 2 exhaust[only one mode of operation]). this is done to achieve a swirl type movement of the incoming air/fuel mixture. above 2200 rpm, the computer decides that it is time to open the 4th vavle as well to aid in power production. on the RSX Type S, there is also a VTEC operation on the exhaust side, now affecting lift and timing on all 4 valves per cylinder.

basicly, the 02-05 Si got the economy version of i-VTEC, and the RSX-S got the sportier, more power oriented version.

the reason you hear VTEC "kick in" is due to having VTEC control the exhaust side as well.

you can look at it two ways, the power way or the technical way.

if youre all about the traditional power use(i.e. old school honda guys), no we dont have "Real" i-VTEC in that sense

however if you look at it from a technical stand point, yes we do have "real" i-VTEC

also know this,

VTEC and i-VTEC dont "make power" the motor is always capable of making a given amount of power and torque. VTEC and i-VTEC simply limit the power made, when it is not needed, in an effort to achieve greater fuel economy.

sorry for a long post. hope that helps clear some things up. if you red it all, it should help some.

Isaac

 
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I have an 03 Si, and this is what i can say about it.

if you want a street fighter, look else where.

if you want a good, reliable, overall vun-to-drive, fuel effiecient car that will turn a few heads, and isnt seen around every corner, this is a good consideration.

about its quirks.
the shifter, easy to get used to, very comfortable, great conversation peice
the seats, very comfortable, great for the back roads
the hatch, not as roomy as a Golf or GTi, but it can swallow a lot of stuff if you drop the seats and take out the rear hatch cover
the look, not for everyone, but if you didnt like it, you wouldnt consider it
value, get a used one, my local dealer wants something like 19,995, which is WAAAY more than this car is worth, however. pre- 04 Si's have an imfamous 2nd gear grind, due to bad synchro detent springs

it is said best, and is true for most newer Hondas: it doesnt do any one thing better than the competition, but, as a complete package, it cant be beat

 
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I get the infamous second gear grind too, once in a while. Way to prevent it : If you know that ur gonna race the car or be shifting it hard, do a couple dry runs thru the gears before getting ready to go. Hold the clutch in and go from 1-2-3-4-5 and then back thru them a couple times.

This works, I have done it many times.

 
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there are a bunch of our cars in the same price range an hp that are leagues better.

Ralliart - 162hp/162trq MIVEC engine
SpecV - 175hp/180trq CVVT engine
GT-S - 180hp/140trq VVTL-I engine

160hp/130trq I-VTEC aint nothing to be happy about IMO. Check out these 3 cars first, before you make a decision.

 
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Perfect explanation of vtec, and i-vtec, Eternalvtec. Thank you. I have a few more statements to make. Firstly Honda is, i think, a badge of sorts, some of us wear w/ pride. I've had a number of cars in the past 15 yrs. a couple mitsubishi's, a few honda's, a couple ford's(nothing but trouble), my most reliable car was a diesel volkswagon rabbit(1981) 400,000 miles. I owned a Montero for a couple yrs. (worst new car experience ever), 2 yrs of dead spots in the throttle band, and me left wondering where the heck the supposed power was, the dealer agreed w/ me and replaced the cylinder head completely, a few months later driving near Lake Tahoe in the mountains in a low gear w/ the engine @ around 4200 rpm the motor blew altogether, the dealer determined that there had actually been a fissure crack in the engine block due to a poor cast. I sold it a week later. Screw that i aint drivin no Mitsubishi. The SpecV well, for me it quite simply looks like moms car, albeit on steroids, i'd buy a Skyline if they brought it to the states. The Celica GT-S, looks like a great car, and does have a higher power/weight ratio to the civic Si, if I were racing against a Celica GT-S at a track that is where the Si would show it's true colors, w/ a shorter wheelbase, and more chassis rigidity, not to mention a perfectly square engine (86mm bore x 86mm stroke) the Si will be able to carry more corner speed, and be able to get back on the throttle sooner. This is probably a far stretch in difference for the average car buyer, and if i was gonna get a second sports car it would be the GT-S, but I love my Si dearly. So Arith, meet me at Laguna Seca, and we can settle this once and for all. lol

 
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^^^ lmao, yeah... stock vs. stock ur sI aint touchin a ralliart,specV or GT-S on the street or track. I driven all 4 vehicles and the sI show's its underpower in HP and def in the trq range. sI dyno's 98whp in the trq, that's gaaaawd awful, my old lancer es dynoed more trq than that. Dude... if you really wanna meet me at laguna seca, get some more ***** first (torque) because im not wasting my gas on 98trq.

 
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98whp?
Let's see some dyno sheet.

Si isn't fast car but i've never seen dyno numbers that low.

 
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sorry Arith, racing season is kinda over for the season. How's February sound to ya @ Laguna Seca. I look at it this way to, for one i think someone's dyno needs recalibrated. The Civic Si's arent exactly runnin out of the dealership, so btw. that and my uncles' Honda factory employee discount. I rolled mine out of the dealer for 15,999. That leaves me more than 6,000 i could spend before i got up to Celica GT-R prices. 6,000 can do alot of things.

 
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Si might not be no rocket, and their power fluctuates alot depending on how they were broke in. If there is a Civic Si only crankin 98 whp, someone shouldn't have let granny break it in. I broke mine in through all rpm levels, about 300 of the first 500 miles @ Infinion Raceway, I'm not gonna go dynoing my stock Si, but it's got way more than that for sure.

 
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agreed, most dyno around 140hp at the wheels

 
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137whp bone stock for the 04 Si. im at around 153whp with i/h/e with my 04 and im very happy with it despite it not having a ton of power

 
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God, they should, my dx=no vtec=almost 100 whp! thats with intake,exhaust and a few tweaks.

 
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Anyways, did i ever mention the sI dyno horsepower..... NO. I mentioned its torque, HP dynos about 135-140hp and its torque is between 98-103trq and that's to the wheels. So go back to my comments and re-edit yall post.

What is that? Is it JDM YO!!?? I gotta check that out... go a link?

 
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I'd take you up on that offer....and I'd kick your ***.

Torque/Hp doesn't mean **** if you can't dive into a corner, turn sharp, and pull out of it with the best possible line.

Show me a Spec-V that has as many suspension mods as my EP3 does, and I'll show you a person that spent WAY too much money on a crappy quality car that will never be as good as the EP3 through the turns. I know because I've beat Spec-V's.


What the EP3 lacks in Hp/Trq. #'s....it MORE than makes up for in handling...even stock for stock.

 
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^^^ are you stock? Probably not because like i said stock vs. stock The hatch isnt taking the sedan ralliart/specV or the coupe gt-s on the street or the track. If your modded, than that's a different story. Stay on topic with me kid, your falling off.

 
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oh yer funny Arith, for future reference and to keep you from having to doubletake on your statements don't phrase them in a confusing manner such as this, "98whp in the trq". What the heck is that statement supposed to mean.

 
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I dont understand what 95% of that statment meant. Anyways the "98whp of torque" meant, it doesnt have enough to compete with the other vehicles in the torque department, you do the math:

Ralliart: 149trq
SpecV: 151trq
GT-S: 117trq
sI: 98-103trq

 
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wait for 2006 si

 
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Funny thing about you Arith. The more i see your posts, the more moronic you seem to become. So keep yappin you'll soon attain retard status.

 
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^^^ im shocked, you asked a question... i gave you an answer, so im a retard? I think you just dont have a response to the answer i gave you.

 
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No...I'm not stock. (Read the signature)

But you also missed the last sentence of my post. I've beat MODIFIED Spec-V's and GT-S's....IN STOCK FORM. I ran STS with only a short shifter done to my car, with the STOCK rocks for tires. I've beat MANY cars that I really had no business beating with my STOCK EP3, when it was stock.

Why?

1) Because I'm a good driver.

and

2) Because the EP3 is HIGHLY underestimated.

I'd put a stock EP3 up against a stock Spec-V, GT-S, Ralliart...and bet on the EP3 ANYDAY.

But I guess it all boils down to personal opinion, ability of the driver, etc. (too many variables to REALLY come to a conclusion) But some food for thought....the EP3 has been taken to MANY 1st place finishes (namely Grass Roots Motorsports in 2002) beating all of the above cars that you mentioned.

 
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you tell him dawg !! ^^

 
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look at these two n00bs goin at it .....bahahahaha

 
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Hmm, I guess this is mc donalds, because it can happen. Out of the choices, #1 is the answer. STOCK vs. STOCK the cars are close (somewhat) in HP/TRQ range so the better driver can win. THOU equal drivers in each car against the EP3, you already know who's gonna win. Im pretty sure if you drove the RA/GT-S/SPECV you would beat you own EP3. Sorry, not to be mean, but i just can't bet on 160hp/130trq and high 15, low 16's against the other cars. Like i said, i drove all of the car's before, and the ep3 was lacking a lil bit against the others, that's was my driving opinion. Also yes, different strokes for different folks, there are more sI out there than the other 3 vehicles, but does that automactically make it the better car? It's only because the name honda. If honda had the specV and nissan had the sI, who would still sell more cars? EXACTLY.

RA just came out in o4, so it didnt compete with the sI @ the Grass Roots Motorsports in 2002.

 
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Hey Arith, just to clear you up....

http://ephatch.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42308

139.5 WHP
121.2 WTQ

just for reference, the 6th Gen Si's made around 111 Torque(though im not sure if 111 was at the wheels or crank.)

 
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congrats on those numbers, very impressive. The torque number's i pulled where from AEM website. Want to me to post dyno's numbers on the other 3 vehicles? To answer your question, the 6thgen torque (111) is to the wheels. I never said the sI sucked, i never said it was garbage... compared to the other vehicles in it's class there are better buys, IMO. Its not up to me to change the guys mind, if he still get's an sI congrats for him, i just said, look at the RA, SpecV, GT-S aswell.

Atleast if im gonna talk about a car, ill drive it first... i driven the sI (ep3 alot, the old coupe a lil) so i know where it stands, i know how it is in stock form. I drove the GT-S in stock form, I wasn't blown by it's torque, but its HP had really good pull in the upper RPM's. The specV and RA had more HP and waaaaay more torque pull (i loved the goobs of torque these cars had), and are constructed tuff, strong welds, chasis felt strong. IMO the RA is a better buy (a lil quicker) compared to all of them, but that's IMO.