10,000 miles W\O oil change
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i know havoline GF4 comes in a 5w20 and 5w30. aside from long drain intervals, it outperforms or is equal to the synthetics.
if s2ki.com was up i could grab more info for you.
if s2ki.com was up i could grab more info for you.
Originally Posted by S2000man01
i know havoline GF4 comes in a 5w20 and 5w30. aside from long drain intervals, it outperforms or is equal to the synthetics.
if s2ki.com was up i could grab more info for you.
if s2ki.com was up i could grab more info for you.
Oh I know it does. I'm not arguing with you there. Both Chevron and Havoline comes in 5w20. I have a rebate from Schucks for Chevron @ 49 cents per quart. However they don't carry the 5w20 so I went 1 step up with 5w30.
I think this has been discussed about 1000xxxxxxxxxxx times.
Simple Rule of thumb (even though it may not be SUPER ACCURATE)
A. Change Oil every 2500-4000 miles. More change = drive hard, less change = drive simple and slow.
There is absolutly 0 point on testing if 10,000 miles is good on a $650 motor when an oil change will cost (shittiest place for dino) $12.00-20.00.
These discussions bother me bc i have a close friend who does this and never brings his car to our shop for oil changes even if i tell him its free. He always asks me if hes "ok with his mileage of xxx" and i tell him - why experiment and cause problems over $20 u will probably go buy a 24 pack for.
SImple thoughts for a complicated few
Simple Rule of thumb (even though it may not be SUPER ACCURATE)
A. Change Oil every 2500-4000 miles. More change = drive hard, less change = drive simple and slow.
There is absolutly 0 point on testing if 10,000 miles is good on a $650 motor when an oil change will cost (shittiest place for dino) $12.00-20.00.
These discussions bother me bc i have a close friend who does this and never brings his car to our shop for oil changes even if i tell him its free. He always asks me if hes "ok with his mileage of xxx" and i tell him - why experiment and cause problems over $20 u will probably go buy a 24 pack for.
SImple thoughts for a complicated few
Originally Posted by S2000man01
no. your uncle and other mechanics who have been working on cars for years are not experts in oil change intervals. people like your uncle are the people who cannot let this 3,000 mile oil change interval go. they are stuck in their ways and tend to believe whatever it is they want.
and guess what. after 500 miles your oil is going to be dark and dirty. if it's not, then it's not doing it's job. oil gets dark and dirty very quickly, because it's suspending contaminants, which is its job.
changing oil on cars nowadays every 3,000 miles is a WASTE of money and resources. cars can go 5000, 7500, 10000, even 15,000 miles nowadays.
if you ask an expert, such as a tribologist, they'll tell you that 3,000 mile oil changes are a waste and completely uncessary. people like your uncle are simply set in their ways and no amount of experts will change their mind. your uncle is not an expert in this regard in any way, shape, or form.
and guess what. after 500 miles your oil is going to be dark and dirty. if it's not, then it's not doing it's job. oil gets dark and dirty very quickly, because it's suspending contaminants, which is its job.
changing oil on cars nowadays every 3,000 miles is a WASTE of money and resources. cars can go 5000, 7500, 10000, even 15,000 miles nowadays.
if you ask an expert, such as a tribologist, they'll tell you that 3,000 mile oil changes are a waste and completely uncessary. people like your uncle are simply set in their ways and no amount of experts will change their mind. your uncle is not an expert in this regard in any way, shape, or form.
gawd damn, you feel better?...
I am your uncle hahah. JP JP, but, its worked for years, its cheap to do it = why not?
Why experiment over an extra $15 every 2 months on something worth $600 plus labor. And thats only D17 case. I wouldnt experiment on an F20C = $3000 used or $8500 new.
Why experiment over an extra $15 every 2 months on something worth $600 plus labor. And thats only D17 case. I wouldnt experiment on an F20C = $3000 used or $8500 new.
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Rep Power: 401 because it's wasteful to oil resources and to the money and time you spend on oil. do the math. let's say it's $20 per oil change and filter.
let's say you change every 3000 miles and put 18,000 miles on the car in a year. that's $120 a year in oil changes. instead go every 8500 or so. that's about $40 a year in oil changes. you're wasting $80 every year you own your car just in money, not to mention time if you do it yourself. plus you waste an extra 20 quarts of oil every year too.
why not instead just take 20 quarts of oil and $80 bucks and throw it on a big bonfire every year for fun, because that's what you're doing.
people need to get over the 3,000 mile mantra. the entire REASON people originally went 3,000 miles was because that's what manufacturers suggested. for years and years and years it was the magical oil change number. now suddenly manufacturers are saying "no go to 7500+ miles" and their word is for some reason no longer worth anything?
let's say you change every 3000 miles and put 18,000 miles on the car in a year. that's $120 a year in oil changes. instead go every 8500 or so. that's about $40 a year in oil changes. you're wasting $80 every year you own your car just in money, not to mention time if you do it yourself. plus you waste an extra 20 quarts of oil every year too.
why not instead just take 20 quarts of oil and $80 bucks and throw it on a big bonfire every year for fun, because that's what you're doing.
people need to get over the 3,000 mile mantra. the entire REASON people originally went 3,000 miles was because that's what manufacturers suggested. for years and years and years it was the magical oil change number. now suddenly manufacturers are saying "no go to 7500+ miles" and their word is for some reason no longer worth anything?
Last edited by S2000man01; Jul 11, 2005 at 07:48 PM.
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Rep Power: 401 more info on havoline GF4
Some synoils have a higher TBN, allowing for longer drain interval. That is about the only real advantage in the conditions most of us drive in. If you live in Antartica, a true Group IV synoil like Amsoil might have a slightly lower pour point.
Oils like Havoline's GF-4 are synoils essentially anyway. They use the same Group III bases as products like Syntec, with small amounts of esters, and far more moly. That is what makes them such killer lubes, and such great deals. Hate to say it, but synoils are largely marketed now to the less knowledgeable consumer, whereas they used to target the savvy owner. Since few people have kept up with the advances in "conventional" oils driven mostly from the demands of the auto manufacturers for better fuel economy, longer drain intervals, lower viscosity, lower oxidation, reduced deposits, lower wear, lower pour points (does that ring a bell - like a 1976 Mobil 1 ad?), and so on.
The base oils in conventional all are severely hydrocracked, GIII - which good ol' Castrol started using in Syntec (where it had previously used GIV base stocks) in an attempt to undercut the synoil competition - it was a clever move, and Texaco filed suit to prevent Castrrol from stating that Syntec was a "synoil". Texaco lost, and that allowed all the oil companies to sell hydrocracked lubes in various blends with "true" GIV and GV synopils as "synthetic". Thanks a lot Castrol. I think it was dirty pool, esp since the consumer had no way to know they were paying for something they were not getting.
Syntec is just average - same as Mobil 1. In all the "hard data" tests I have posted, it comes out in the middle, except for a few of the parameters, where it scores higher. On average, Amsoil does score higher.
Still, the new Havoline formulations perform as well or better, but with a shorter service life. Since many of you still change your "synoils" way before it is necessary, I cannot see why you use extended drain oils.
That is why i am using the Havoline GF-4 in both my S2000 (it only has 2300 miles, so I should not be using synoil anyway, right?) and my 2004 Acura TL (5w20). I still plan to switch over to LE8130 if I ever get to 7500 miles or so (and assuming it is still being made!), as it has a margin of safety and the best oxidation resistance of any oil I have ever seen, of any type and price. It is a blend of the best GII and GIV lubes.
As to the "seat of the pants" improvement. I believe this is attributable to two things - once psychological, the other hard fact:
1) Placebo effect - just as a clean car runs better, so does a car with fresh oil, esp if one's expectations are inclined to like it - you switched for a reason, and it is our natural psychological tendency to avoid conflict with ourselves (see "cognitive dissonace")
2) Lighter oil factions in fresh oil - it is a fact that the carrier oil which is used to transport the additive package is a light faction oil - this vaporizes pretty fast in the oil's service life. Some people may feel the slightly reduced parasitic drag, but based on the numbers, it is hard to imagine so, but since it is there, I will not dismiss it out of hand. This is another reason why one CAN overchange the oil. If you were to change the oil every 500 miles, these light factions would be transporting a lot of the phosphorous in the oil into the catalytic converter(s), increasing the likelihood that they will be damaged much earlier in their service life than based on the mfr's change intervals. This is especially true with oils and additives that are high in ZDP, such as the non GF-4 oils. LE 8130 still is an SH-rated oil, for example, because they want the highest level of safety and protection, and while the GF-4's look great in terms of keeping wear down with reduced ZDP, some tribologists are still taking a "wait and see" for long-term study of reduced amounts of anti-wear add pack componentry. I am pretty much convinced, and have asked LE if they plan to "modernize" LE 8130.
Oils like Havoline's GF-4 are synoils essentially anyway. They use the same Group III bases as products like Syntec, with small amounts of esters, and far more moly. That is what makes them such killer lubes, and such great deals. Hate to say it, but synoils are largely marketed now to the less knowledgeable consumer, whereas they used to target the savvy owner. Since few people have kept up with the advances in "conventional" oils driven mostly from the demands of the auto manufacturers for better fuel economy, longer drain intervals, lower viscosity, lower oxidation, reduced deposits, lower wear, lower pour points (does that ring a bell - like a 1976 Mobil 1 ad?), and so on.
The base oils in conventional all are severely hydrocracked, GIII - which good ol' Castrol started using in Syntec (where it had previously used GIV base stocks) in an attempt to undercut the synoil competition - it was a clever move, and Texaco filed suit to prevent Castrrol from stating that Syntec was a "synoil". Texaco lost, and that allowed all the oil companies to sell hydrocracked lubes in various blends with "true" GIV and GV synopils as "synthetic". Thanks a lot Castrol. I think it was dirty pool, esp since the consumer had no way to know they were paying for something they were not getting.
Syntec is just average - same as Mobil 1. In all the "hard data" tests I have posted, it comes out in the middle, except for a few of the parameters, where it scores higher. On average, Amsoil does score higher.
Still, the new Havoline formulations perform as well or better, but with a shorter service life. Since many of you still change your "synoils" way before it is necessary, I cannot see why you use extended drain oils.
That is why i am using the Havoline GF-4 in both my S2000 (it only has 2300 miles, so I should not be using synoil anyway, right?) and my 2004 Acura TL (5w20). I still plan to switch over to LE8130 if I ever get to 7500 miles or so (and assuming it is still being made!), as it has a margin of safety and the best oxidation resistance of any oil I have ever seen, of any type and price. It is a blend of the best GII and GIV lubes.
As to the "seat of the pants" improvement. I believe this is attributable to two things - once psychological, the other hard fact:
1) Placebo effect - just as a clean car runs better, so does a car with fresh oil, esp if one's expectations are inclined to like it - you switched for a reason, and it is our natural psychological tendency to avoid conflict with ourselves (see "cognitive dissonace")
2) Lighter oil factions in fresh oil - it is a fact that the carrier oil which is used to transport the additive package is a light faction oil - this vaporizes pretty fast in the oil's service life. Some people may feel the slightly reduced parasitic drag, but based on the numbers, it is hard to imagine so, but since it is there, I will not dismiss it out of hand. This is another reason why one CAN overchange the oil. If you were to change the oil every 500 miles, these light factions would be transporting a lot of the phosphorous in the oil into the catalytic converter(s), increasing the likelihood that they will be damaged much earlier in their service life than based on the mfr's change intervals. This is especially true with oils and additives that are high in ZDP, such as the non GF-4 oils. LE 8130 still is an SH-rated oil, for example, because they want the highest level of safety and protection, and while the GF-4's look great in terms of keeping wear down with reduced ZDP, some tribologists are still taking a "wait and see" for long-term study of reduced amounts of anti-wear add pack componentry. I am pretty much convinced, and have asked LE if they plan to "modernize" LE 8130.
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the article is no longer a valid link, but read the thread.
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/index....owtopic=184529
the article is no longer a valid link, but read the thread.
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/index....owtopic=184529
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Rep Power: 0 The biggest commercial pusher of 3k intervals is Jiffy Lube who is owned by Pennzoil. Is Pennzoil pushing 3k changes? Let's see what their site has to say:
And consider this little gem, also from their site:
These little nuggets of info were buried on the Pennzoil site so read them and learn.
Pennzoil says 3k as a worst case scenario for severe driving conditions but defers to your manual for the definitive word. If everyday driving is 10k then a worse case change schedule is 5k.
Waste you money at 3k if you'd like.
Lubricant levels/regular changes: It’s critical to routinely check the engine oil and transmission fluid to assure they're at the proper level. Have these fluids changed (along with the appropriate filters) at least as often as recommended by the factory under "severe/heavy duty" conditions. Do not go by the "normal use" fluid/filter change intervals unless you live in a rural area and rarely experience stop-and-go driving, or periods of prolonged idling, as in traffic jams or trailer towing. All these are considered "severe/heavy duty" conditions.
For most people, day-in, day-out driving conditions meet the factory definitions of "severe" service, yet many people assume that because they're not drag racing or otherwise abusing their vehicles that they can adhere to the "normal use" recommendations. The "severe/heavy duty" recommended change intervals are typically half the "normal use" intervals (three months/3000 miles vs. six months/6000 miles).
Check your owner's manual: the actual time/mileage increments for your specific vehicle can be found there. This small investment will reap large benefits over the life of your vehicle.
For most people, day-in, day-out driving conditions meet the factory definitions of "severe" service, yet many people assume that because they're not drag racing or otherwise abusing their vehicles that they can adhere to the "normal use" recommendations. The "severe/heavy duty" recommended change intervals are typically half the "normal use" intervals (three months/3000 miles vs. six months/6000 miles).
Check your owner's manual: the actual time/mileage increments for your specific vehicle can be found there. This small investment will reap large benefits over the life of your vehicle.
Change your oil and fluids to synthetic lubricants. Oil and synthetic lubricants: although they’re more expensive per quart than ordinary motor oil and transmission fluid (about $4 per quart vs. $1.50 or so for premium quality non-synthetics) the benefits far outweigh the small initial cash outlay. Synthetics are vastly superior in terms of the protection they provide: their resistance to extremes of temperature, "flow rates" (viscosity) when cold and resistance to high heat conditions/extreme or severe service. You can also extend change-out intervals when using synthetics as well, which further reduces the actual cost. Oil is the blood of your engine and is extremely important.
The biggest mistake many new car buyers make is failing to read their owner's manual cover to cover, especially the chapters dealing with maintenance, and not following these recommendations to the letter. You can pay now - or pay much more, later. You can be one of those stories where your vehicle has 300,000 miles and still going strong.
The biggest mistake many new car buyers make is failing to read their owner's manual cover to cover, especially the chapters dealing with maintenance, and not following these recommendations to the letter. You can pay now - or pay much more, later. You can be one of those stories where your vehicle has 300,000 miles and still going strong.
Pennzoil says 3k as a worst case scenario for severe driving conditions but defers to your manual for the definitive word. If everyday driving is 10k then a worse case change schedule is 5k.
Waste you money at 3k if you'd like.
Last edited by Flashlightboy; Jul 11, 2005 at 08:18 PM.
You are partially correct about it being wasteful, but if you recycle oil correctly, it can be "re-generated". Most oil that you buy new is re-made or re-conditioned oil.
On the $80 a year. Fine, $80 a year wasted on a 17k+ car. Thats less than 1% of its value. Just like people who refuse to upgrade their air conditioning because its so expensive (house wise) to do, when you save a ton of money on the energy bill.
Its your choice.
On the $80 a year. Fine, $80 a year wasted on a 17k+ car. Thats less than 1% of its value. Just like people who refuse to upgrade their air conditioning because its so expensive (house wise) to do, when you save a ton of money on the energy bill.
Its your choice.
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Originally Posted by truehonda
You are partially correct about it being wasteful, but if you recycle oil correctly, it can be "re-generated". Most oil that you buy new is re-made or re-conditioned oil.
i'm not trying to come off so harshly about this subject. it's just that 95% of americans have no idea, and the 3000 mile mantra is old and long overdue to be left behind. just food for thought.
Originally Posted by S2000man01
read the thread from the link i posted. they discuss this in there. you may want to read more about it as it may change your thinking somewhat.
i'm not trying to come off so harshly about this subject. it's just that 95% of americans have no idea, and the 3000 mile mantra is old and long overdue to be left behind. just food for thought.
i'm not trying to come off so harshly about this subject. it's just that 95% of americans have no idea, and the 3000 mile mantra is old and long overdue to be left behind. just food for thought.
Edward
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Rep Power: 337 ok i baby my ride 3k or 3 months. only me, and my dad. my dads 95 dx. 220k still runs. he still does his every 3k. it might be wasteful to some but if i drive 3k in 2 months then its needed.
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Originally Posted by MajinB
ok i baby my ride 3k or 3 months. only me, and my dad. my dads 95 dx. 220k still runs. he still does his every 3k. it might be wasteful to some but if i drive 3k in 2 months then its needed.
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Originally Posted by truehonda
On the most part you are right. Its true, chemical composition and new technology have made oil much better than the old "dino crap" made years ago. In either case, I view this from a financial standpoint of "what works works", thats all. To me, $80 extra a year on a $20k car doesnt make me justify for a change.
Edward
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Rep Power: 337 well if i am runnin my little econobox 3k every couple of months i would rather not risk going 5 or 6k. i mean its not like im saying you shouldn't im just saying i don't. call it extreme conditions. in my judgement, if i have to drive that much in that little time then i need to change my oil more often. its just personal preference, i just like knowing that i don't have to worry about it hitting 5 or 6 k and wondering if my car will start the next day.
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Rep Power: 401 your car will still start and last just as long if you were to change the oil every 5000 miles. this is what i'm talking about, how people can't get past the 3000 mile mentality.
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Rep Power: 304 who cares...point is if it makes you fall asleep better at night changing your oil every three months so be it. We all have the same engine however if you think it will prolong the engine by changing the oil every three months so be it. The facts have been pinted out so deal with it.... geeez wassup with all this arguing
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Rep Power: 0 For all you 3k or worry yourself to death people, your rationale for your change interval is wishing for the utmost in protection. Let's push that logic.
Why not change it every 100 miles? Fresh oil is better than used oil. No contaminants, oxidization, dilution or anything else that causes the need for a change. I sound like a moron suggesting frequent changes don't I? Let's take it the other direction.
What, in terms of scientific evidence, do you 3k people have that 5k or even 7.5k changes are harmful, compromising longevity or performance? [taps fingers on table repeatedly]
There is none because oil and filter technology are that good! That means they are improved over the days when your dad and mine, shadetree mechanic or other well meaning persons found 3k changes beneficial. Those days are long gone and to live in the past is folly. We're not ever going back to them either. Ever bother to wonder why we're using SM/SL rated oils and why SA through SJ oils are obsolete standards? Ever look into the additive packages that oil manufacturers have today that they didn't years ago? Ask hard questions or else listen to those who have!
I don't mean this to sound as a put down however it will come across that way. Nevertheless, here goes: I've come to realize after having lived for many years and travelled the world that some people have it and others don't. It doesn't matter how many times they're shown a better way or have instruction on how to do things they simply remain unable to absorb information and apply it to everyday living and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. They continue to wander through life in the fog of their own ignorance shouting down those who do understand.
3k changes and the insistence that it's proper maintence is part of the "don't get it" crowd and science, logic or good sense don't matter. And there's not a damn thing I can do about it.
Why not change it every 100 miles? Fresh oil is better than used oil. No contaminants, oxidization, dilution or anything else that causes the need for a change. I sound like a moron suggesting frequent changes don't I? Let's take it the other direction.
What, in terms of scientific evidence, do you 3k people have that 5k or even 7.5k changes are harmful, compromising longevity or performance? [taps fingers on table repeatedly]
There is none because oil and filter technology are that good! That means they are improved over the days when your dad and mine, shadetree mechanic or other well meaning persons found 3k changes beneficial. Those days are long gone and to live in the past is folly. We're not ever going back to them either. Ever bother to wonder why we're using SM/SL rated oils and why SA through SJ oils are obsolete standards? Ever look into the additive packages that oil manufacturers have today that they didn't years ago? Ask hard questions or else listen to those who have!
I don't mean this to sound as a put down however it will come across that way. Nevertheless, here goes: I've come to realize after having lived for many years and travelled the world that some people have it and others don't. It doesn't matter how many times they're shown a better way or have instruction on how to do things they simply remain unable to absorb information and apply it to everyday living and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. They continue to wander through life in the fog of their own ignorance shouting down those who do understand.
3k changes and the insistence that it's proper maintence is part of the "don't get it" crowd and science, logic or good sense don't matter. And there's not a damn thing I can do about it.
Last edited by Flashlightboy; Jul 12, 2005 at 12:51 PM.
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Rep Power: 337 i can't afford every 100 miles. and i don't have time to do it every 100 miles. lol. its just personal preference. thats all i can say. and btw we are looking back on them right now. "we" aren't ignorant. its just oil.
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Rep Power: 337 i was not born in the usa. im 20. i am an american citizen. there is a diff. your right. there is no point. everyone assumes they know the circumstances of everyone else driving. if itll make you feel better i will change my oil in 5k instead of 3. not.
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Rep Power: 0 My belief in the 3k mile change has less to do with what people say or preach, but more to do with I see and observe. I'm not an expert as some of you have pointed out, however I do know how my car runs and how it sounds. There have been a couple times I forgot to change my oil at the 3k mile and pushed it to 6500-7000 miles.
After I got it changed, I could definitely tell a difference in the way my car ran and how it sounded. I just can't believe that the oil in my car after maybe just 6000 miles would protect my car just as well as it did at the 3000 mile mark.
We can go with my theory and push it, but we can do the same with yours as well. No I wouldn't change my oil every 100 miles, but would you change your oil (non-synthetic) every 9000?
In the end, its all up to you.
After I got it changed, I could definitely tell a difference in the way my car ran and how it sounded. I just can't believe that the oil in my car after maybe just 6000 miles would protect my car just as well as it did at the 3000 mile mark.
We can go with my theory and push it, but we can do the same with yours as well. No I wouldn't change my oil every 100 miles, but would you change your oil (non-synthetic) every 9000?
In the end, its all up to you.
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Originally Posted by MajinB
i was not born in the usa. im 20. i am an american citizen. there is a diff. your right. there is no point. everyone assumes they know the circumstances of everyone else driving. if itll make you feel better i will change my oil in 5k instead of 3. not.
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Rep Power: 307 VW has one of the strictest oil change requirements of all cars. They not only specify the time but also the grade of oil. These requirements are shared with Porsche, Audi, Mercedes, and BMW. And even with a factory turbo that is really harsh on oil, they SPECIFY an oil change at 5000 miles.
Now who do I listen to? The person that designed my motor and has to warranty my car for 4 years or 50,000 miles, or the person that wants to sell me an oil change, albeit with crappy oil that is not synthetic anyway?
Why buy superior oil and a superior filter if you have doubts that they out perform the crappy alternatives?
Now who do I listen to? The person that designed my motor and has to warranty my car for 4 years or 50,000 miles, or the person that wants to sell me an oil change, albeit with crappy oil that is not synthetic anyway?
Why buy superior oil and a superior filter if you have doubts that they out perform the crappy alternatives?
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Rep Power: 0 That sound you hear is my head banging against the wall. It all boils down to science and not your butt or eye dyno.
Changing the oil made your car sound better? That's like saying the sound of your horn improved by washing your car.
Honda's in Houston? And the point is what? It's a 127 hp+/- and your going to be harder on your oil than Corvettes, Vipers, pickups or perhaps Porsche or MB? Hardly.
What is the interval on Porsche or MB? Much much longer than 3k. Spend some time doing the research and you'll see that 3k is living proof of purposeful ignorance.
Those that believe in the 3k change have to be the hardest working people I know because no on can be that ignorant unintentionally.
Changing the oil made your car sound better? That's like saying the sound of your horn improved by washing your car.
Honda's in Houston? And the point is what? It's a 127 hp+/- and your going to be harder on your oil than Corvettes, Vipers, pickups or perhaps Porsche or MB? Hardly.
What is the interval on Porsche or MB? Much much longer than 3k. Spend some time doing the research and you'll see that 3k is living proof of purposeful ignorance.
Those that believe in the 3k change have to be the hardest working people I know because no on can be that ignorant unintentionally.
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Rep Power: 0 Not like it was dramatic or anything smart@$$, but it is definitely noticable. Ever listen to a car that hasn't changed its oil in 7k miles and listen to the same car that just after it changed its oil????? I'm guessing you haven't.
Plus those cars you mentioned probably use synthetic, which we are not in general talking about. We are talking about conventional oil.
So riding your engine hard, albeit a Civic, has no effect on engine wear just b/c it only has roughly 127hp? So you're also saying temperature and stop and go traffic will not adversely effect your oils protection capability? So what if you add a turbo giving you +/- 200 hp? Will that not matter either since it's far less then a Viper or Porche?!? Interesting.
If you can't tell the difference in the way it sounds and drives after you change your oil after 7k miles, I'm not the ignorant one.
Plus those cars you mentioned probably use synthetic, which we are not in general talking about. We are talking about conventional oil.
So riding your engine hard, albeit a Civic, has no effect on engine wear just b/c it only has roughly 127hp? So you're also saying temperature and stop and go traffic will not adversely effect your oils protection capability? So what if you add a turbo giving you +/- 200 hp? Will that not matter either since it's far less then a Viper or Porche?!? Interesting.
If you can't tell the difference in the way it sounds and drives after you change your oil after 7k miles, I'm not the ignorant one.
Last edited by TiM3; Jul 12, 2005 at 03:57 PM.
also need to keep in mind which vehicle... 1.7L to 3.0L can vary. with the small block 1.7L ULEV , im sure as hell you can go 5000 miles fine.
i run fully syn and change every 4500 miles or whenever it turns very dark brown/blacken. im sure if i ran regular, i would do it every 3000 miles as that sounds resonable. but then, i sometimes bring my car (not civic) to the track
check out http://bobistheoilguy.com/ for the new oil people. i just started looking into that site, im sure as hell confused lol
i run fully syn and change every 4500 miles or whenever it turns very dark brown/blacken. im sure if i ran regular, i would do it every 3000 miles as that sounds resonable. but then, i sometimes bring my car (not civic) to the track
check out http://bobistheoilguy.com/ for the new oil people. i just started looking into that site, im sure as hell confused lol
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I don't agree that changing to fresh oil makes the car quieter. 5w-30 to 5w-20 can cause increased noise owing to a change in viscosity but not from dirty to clean within the same viscosity. I'm happy to revisit my opinion if you can point me to something besides the ear dyno.
I'll assume that our little engines are screaming banshees and that they're mere moments from going BLAMO but that neither changes my opinion nor the science.
The Honda (Ford too) spec'ed oils meets standards that other oils don't. The antiwear package they contain isn't found in other oils. Please go to BITOG and read the UOAs. I can cite a specific example of a gentleman who lives in Dallas and used his F250 (with the spec'ed 5w-20 oil) for towing and construction along with a 10k interval. The oil was in for nearly a year and the UOA result? The wear and tear and end of the world scenarios weren't there. This is good oil.
My point is that technology has given us a wonderful product and you'd be foolish to ignore it. I don't see giving up your PC for a stick in the sand or your refrigerator for a block of ice. Watch for a sundial or electricity for cooking. So why be different with hi tech oils?
I don't agree that changing to fresh oil makes the car quieter. 5w-30 to 5w-20 can cause increased noise owing to a change in viscosity but not from dirty to clean within the same viscosity. I'm happy to revisit my opinion if you can point me to something besides the ear dyno.
I'll assume that our little engines are screaming banshees and that they're mere moments from going BLAMO but that neither changes my opinion nor the science.
The Honda (Ford too) spec'ed oils meets standards that other oils don't. The antiwear package they contain isn't found in other oils. Please go to BITOG and read the UOAs. I can cite a specific example of a gentleman who lives in Dallas and used his F250 (with the spec'ed 5w-20 oil) for towing and construction along with a 10k interval. The oil was in for nearly a year and the UOA result? The wear and tear and end of the world scenarios weren't there. This is good oil.
My point is that technology has given us a wonderful product and you'd be foolish to ignore it. I don't see giving up your PC for a stick in the sand or your refrigerator for a block of ice. Watch for a sundial or electricity for cooking. So why be different with hi tech oils?
