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I'm a diy tech at home and this is my 3rd headgasket replacement on 3 diffrent cars . Menards sells Mastercraft ratchets, buy 10 12 13 14. They will be one of your best friends. Also harbor freight sells a very skinny ratcheting wrench for tight areas such as the 14mm bolts holding the motor mount bracket to the engine. This wrench along with a shallow 14mm socket does the job for reaching into hard to reach places. Here is a screen shot of what it looks like. Amazon sells the real Deal for 40 but harbor freight has it for 10 I think I paid. 3/8th and 1/4
My son is in the process of reinstalling the head and needs help if possible with identifying some spacers that either go with the head or the intake. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.
My son is in the process of reinstalling the head and needs help if possible with identifying some spacers that either go with the head or the intake. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.
My son is in the process of reinstalling the head and needs help if possible with identifying some spacers that either go with the head or the intake. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your time.
Post some pics. Only spacers I remember seeing are 2 for the fuel rail, and the 2 dwell pins that hold the headgasket onto the black
I registered for this forum today, just to say....
Thank you SO much to the OP and all others who contributed to this post.
It was very informative and proved invaluable when replacing the cylinder head and head gasket on my 05' Civic EX SE.
It took me almost a year, but I finally got the Civic put back together and running! Now I can stop pestering this thread every few months with updates.
I ended up buying a Neiko ½" breaker bar from Amazon, and that thing is a monster. I also bought some sections of 1" galvanized steel pipe to give myself some leverage. Oddly, the crank bolt did not "snap" when it broke loose (as old bolts tend to do), but it moved very stiffly, to where I thought my breaker bars were moving. That wasn't the case. About half a revolution of stiff turning was all it took and the bolt came out.
That intake manifold nut really wasn't too bad. I have a set of ratcheting box-end wrenches and I managed to get it loose and tighten that nut with it. It's easiest to get the car high enough on jack stands to slide fully under it, then with some light, it's easy to see the nut and get it removed. Installing it was a little more tricky but still, it was only a minute or so to get it located enough to start spinning it on.
A couple of issues along the way, though. The worst was the stripped threads for the timing belt tensioner. I took it step-by-step through the service manual, and when I went to torque it down to 33 ft/lbs, it got nowhere near and the bolt kept turning. (Insert creative profanities at this point.) It looked as though there might have been a Helicoil in there so I decided to go with a Big-Sert (oversized) #5012 thread repair kit from Time-Sert. Drilling out the hole using the drill bit in the tap wrench was tedious, but I got it done. I locked that insert in place with some red threadlocker, and it takes the full torque now (and likely would take more). If I had to redo the cylinder head bolt holes, I would use the Time-Sert kit there as well.
I also discovered that the rebuilt head had one of the valve cover bolt holes stripped. But I used a Helicoil there and it's holding perfectly. (Only 7 ft/lbs on those bolts!)
The last major issue was that a squirrel or rat had gotten into the engine bay over the winter and chewed through the wiring harness to the #4 fuel injector. (More profanities, aimed at small rodent critters.) I soldered in a replacement and sealed it up with adhesive-lined heat shrink.
I did have an issue starting the Civic. I gave it three tries, only to realize I never replaced the fuel pump fuse I had pulled. I replaced it, and that's what you see above. I primed it a few times (turn key to "run" until fuel pump shuts off), and finally got it going.
After it had run maybe 10 minutes or so, I tried revving it, and it kept "bumping" back at 3,500 RPM. MIL was lit for P0340--error in the camshaft position sensor circuit A. I might replace the sensor anyways (I have to pull off the valve cover and top timing belt cover), but since Hungry Rodent chewed on the fuel injector wiring, I want to check what I can of that harness and make certain none of those wires are damaged.
Finally, that ticking sound is the cracked exhaust manifold. It is worse now after the job. (In the past, it would seal itself up as the engine heated up and the crack would swell shut.) The slight noise isn't bad, but I'm getting fumes inside the car. I have no idea who can weld this thing for me to repair it. So I've found a "favorite" replacement offered by Ultra Power at Rock Auto for only $137 (minus my 5% discount). I think I'll go that route, as it includes the exhaust manifold gasket, exhaust pipe gasket and the flange hardware (nuts, bolts, springs). I just hope it doesn't cause any error codes (which some of the cheaper converters are known to do.) But Rock Auto's "favorites" (with the heart symbol) are based on the popularity of a part, along with a low ratio of returns or other claims. Otherwise this part gets spendy. And I don't care to take a chance on a used or salvage yard converter either.
So once I sort the final issues, we should be good to go. I did NOT pull the oil pan yet, though, as I wanted to replace the oil pan gasket. Given the issues with the oil rings, though, I may do this sooner so I'm not burning through a lot of oil. (How hard is it to replace those? That's something else I've never tackled before.)
After it had run maybe 10 minutes or so, I tried revving it, and it kept "bumping" back at 3,500 RPM. MIL was lit for P0340--error in the camshaft position sensor circuit A.
So I ordered a new sensor from Rock Auto and will probably return it.
It arrived yesterday, so I got out there today to swap it in. I pulled the old one and happened to glance inside the connector.
One of the pins was bent.
I straightened the pin, started it up, cleared the error code and the problem is GONE! I drove it for several miles around the neighborhood and it's running great! Feels smoother than before all this started a couple of years ago.
So do I keep it as a spare, or sell it so I can get the Acura RSX Type S or Toyota FJ Cruiser as my "mid-life crisis" toy?
I almost traded in my 2002 civic for an FJ back in like.. 2008. Glad I didn't though. lol
I wouldn't be so fond of the FJ as a daily driver, but we want to do more dirt trails out in Utah and Colorado and have something a little more capable than our CR-Vs. (We may be relocating out there in a couple of years, so an FJ is on the distant radar. It makes more sense, vs. buying one and using it maybe two to four weeks out of the year.) I've thought of lifting a current Pilot or Passport (Traxda sells a lift kit for those) but they still don't have the 4L gearing I would prefer to use. And those have a lot of issues...
I was thinking about the FJ when I was stationed in western WA state and went up to the mountains all the time. Also had a buncha friends that liked to go out to the mud trails. would've been fun, but man, that driver's seat was like sitting on a damn brick
This tutorial helped me a lot. Car fired right up and is going strong so far. Original HG failed at 180K miles. Drove it 15K miles with the blown HG, glad i finally fixed it. i also changed all the Engine mounts since all of them were dry rotted.
I just wanna say Thanks to all you on here. I just finished the Head gasket job on my 7th gen LX and she's back to normal. I forget who mentioned having extra studs on hand, but a big thanks to that guy also. The job definitely isn't for the faint of heart but definitely doable with research and preparation. took me about 16hrs working at a slow pace. That's apart from having to send the head in to get resurfaced (<- actually the most time consuming part of the whole weekend) also dont skimp on the coolant you definitely need 2 bottles of honda blue. Something not alot of ppl mention is how it might be alil difficult to find someone to resurface the head and have it back in a couple hours. Most shops i called told me id have it back in 3 - 4 days. So for those of you looking to tackle this job make sure all your ducks are lined up before you take your shot. FYI I just had to register to post a Huge Thank You to everyone and their advice in this forum.
When I replaced the coolant in the Civic, it only took one bottle plus just a little more from a second bottle to top it off. I removed the plug from the back of the engine to drain the coolant out of the areas surrounding the cylinders, and also because oil had gotten in there from the cylinder head when I removed it. A few blasts of brake cleaner and compressed air cleaned it out. The only thing I didn't do was try to drain the heater hoses and heater core. (I probably should have, but totally forgot about it.)
I didn't need head machining since I bought a rebuilt cylinder head from a shop on eBay. Last year when they were running one of their site-wide 15% off deals, I bought it then, and saved a few dollars. Since these heads are plentiful, they did not want the old core returned. So far this 240,000 mile engine is running very nicely with the rebuilt head, smoother than it has ever run since we bought it five years ago. (It replaced a drowned Acura TL. That was a sad day!) The only questionable thing now are the oil rings on the pistons. Although now with the engine all buttoned up with new gaskets (except for the oil pan gasket), I'm going to see if it loses any oil like it used to.
Good news--the Civic still purrs, runs better than when we bought it five years ago. So smooth you can't feel it running. Gas mileage isn't the greatest (the best I've had so far is 32 MPG with about half of that being expressway miles) but that's still not too bad.
Bad news--it burns maybe 1 to 1½ quarts of oil per tankful of gas. I had enough leaks on it prior to the cylinder head replacement that I figured that was where it was losing oil. In fact, I had to squirt down the engine twice with degreaser since it had accumulated so much of it over the years. But now it's bone dry. I've even had it up on stands while it was running and saw nothing dripping anywhere. I never had to replace the oil pan gasket--there is no leakage there.
The rebuilder supposedly put in new valve seals and pressure tested the head. So it shouldn't be the valve seals. I'm suspecting the oil rings are frozen up. Had I known, I would have pulled the pistons when I had the head off. I did try a piston soak over about three days, but that did nothing. I have a feeling the rings might be too caked up. I am debating trying AutoRX for a few months to see if that formula will clean up the rings, or I may just wait until spring to pull the head again, drop the oil pan and get the pistons out. It's not like this is a daily driver, so I can afford to work on it without being rushed.
If I had to do this all over again, I would probably pull those pistons out and at least clear up the oil rings, or replace them, the first time. The little added time is nothing compared to having to do this a second time.
Bad news--it burns maybe 1 to 1½ quarts of oil per tankful of gas.
Oh my...that is quite a bit. That seems almost excessive for bad oil control rings. Do you see blueish or black smoke out the tailpipe at some points? Rear bumper caked with burnt oil residue?
Oh my...that is quite a bit. That seems almost excessive for bad oil control rings. Do you see blueish or black smoke out the tailpipe at some points? Rear bumper caked with burnt oil residue?
A bad PCV can also cause some oil consumption.
I replaced the PCV valve when I had the engine apart, and also unkinked the rubber hose going from the PCV to the intake. I don't have oil showing on the plastic at all, but I did see some smoke out the rear during hard acceleration. I thought the piston soak had diminished it somewhat, but I'm going to drive it a little more to see if it has gotten even marginally better.
I noticed back when my '92 Civic had a bad exhaust valve seal, I heard a slight "popping" in the exhaust, and had a blue plume of smoke behind me. With this '04, the smoke is more grey, but not white. The coolant is also OK--no oil in it, and no bubbles.
it will be the oil rings, the cat is probably hiding most of the smoke, eventually all the oil is going to kill the cat, so the sooner you fix the rings the better
I hear ya--I just replaced the cat, since this is the LX (D17A1) which has the cat attached to the exhaust manifold, and the manifold had developed a crack (which got worse after I put it all back together--you can hear it ticking in the video).
There really is not much smoke on this one, compared to how much my '92 smoked with the bad oil seal. Unless it's dark and I can see the exhaust in someone's headlights when accelerating, I really don't see it much. I'm only driving it enough now around the neighborhood to keep things moving. It's not a daily by any means.
OK, I'm getting prepared to pull this thing apart again and address the oil rings. A few questions.
1) Since the engine will be reassembled again, should I get new head studs this time? I reused the old ones.
2) With minimal mileage on the new head, do I need to get it machined, or can I just pull it and reinstall?
3) I'm thinking that all I need to do is clean out the existing rings and the slots in the pistons. Or am I better off replacing all the rings? And if I do, I just need to get standard sized rings and not oversized, correct? I'm all set with a cylinder hone and piston ring tools.
This should go quickly now that I'm familiar with everything, and the bolts won't be so bad to loosen this time.
1) Since the engine will be reassembled again, should I get new head studs this time? I reused the old ones.
On the 7th gen the head bolts can be reused multiple times as they are not torque to yield bolts. As long as they are not damaged they should be fine to reuse.
Originally Posted by Wildcat445
2) With minimal mileage on the new head, do I need to get it machined, or can I just pull it and reinstall?
Is it worth saving $50-100 to get it checked and risk having head gasket issues again? That is your decision to make.
Originally Posted by Wildcat445
3) I'm thinking that all I need to do is clean out the existing rings and the slots in the pistons. Or am I better off replacing all the rings? And if I do, I just need to get standard sized rings and not oversized, correct? I'm all set with a cylinder hone and piston ring tools.
I can't speak to simply cleaning out rings/grooves but if you get new rings the size will depend on the machine shop. If they can do a hone without needing to bore it over then standard size rings will work.
1) yeah. Reuse bolts. Unless damaged as brotatochip said
2) at the very least have a shop check it out. Not easy to see a difference of a couple thou without instrumentation. They'd be able to advise if you need it decked or not
3) [see brotatochip's answer]. Just an FYI, OEM ring sets are $60/cylinder (list price). You can prolly find em cheaper online, and dealerships mark mp from that $60. If your cylinders are good, just need a home, they shouldn't have to remove material
1) yeah. Reuse bolts. Unless damaged as brotatochip said
2) at the very least have a shop check it out. Not easy to see a difference of a couple thou without instrumentation. They'd be able to advise if you need it decked or not
3) [see brotatochip's answer]. Just an FYI, OEM ring sets are $60/cylinder (list price). You can prolly find em cheaper online, and dealerships mark mp from that $60. If your cylinders are good, just need a home, they shouldn't have to remove material
The cylinders were smooth inside, no gouges, so I agree they just need a hone.
I did find rings for $40/cylinder from an online Honda parts dealer. I am thinking I should probably replace the rings, vs. just cleaning everything out really well and reusing the old ones?
The engine has 240K on it, so I'm sure those rings are crusty about now. We've only owned it since 2014, and was a daily driver up until this all started in Sept. 2017.
I am currently replacing the head gasket on my 2004 Civic LX, AllDataDIY procedure states that when reinstalling the head bolts they must be torqued in 3 steps. The procedure also states that if the bolt makes any noise while it is being torqued down I should back it out and start over. The number 1 bolt creeks as soon as I begin to torque it down so I stopped and backed it out. I lubricated the head bolts using motor oil as the procedure stated but I keep getting creaking noise as soon as I start. Did anyone who successfully changed out the head gasket have a similar issue? I was thinking of maybe adding some grease to the threads but I'm not sure, maybe I'm just overthinking it but then why would the procedure say to stop and start over. Attached is screen shot of the procedure from AllDataDIY.
One of the middle three in the front of the cylinder head creaked for me also, and I redid the sequence once, having it creak both times. Plenty of engine oil for lubricant both times (I dipped them in oil). I just carefully torqued it down and it has been running with no issues so far. I only wish I knew what was causing it, as I'd rather have it torque correctly.
I wanted to see if only the #1 bolt was creaking so I torqued down all the bolts to 14 ft. lbs as stated in step one, all of the bolts except two creaked. I read that assembly lube could help but I don't see that being significantly better than engine oil. I'm going to go ahead and just torque them down as best as I can and hope for the best.
Are you reusing the original bolts or are they new? I think I heard someone say once that cheap aftermarket bolts can sometimes cause more noise.
Basically every head bolt I've ever torqued down has made noise and I have never had any issue. Most are on K series where the torque doesn't matter but the angle does. Getting it to the correct torque while it's doing that may be a little more difficult.
They are all new OEM bolts, bought them from Hondapartsnow.com. I ended up torquing them down very carefully making sure my torque wrench clicked on every bolt for all three steps. Hopefully everything works out. Thanks for the feedback.
Howdy everyone. I am about to dive into this job on my 2005 DX (I believe that makes the engine a D17A1), much thanks for the DIY write-up. I've also got a Haynes manual but it is surprisingly sparse on details. Might pick up a chiltons if I get stuck, they seem to go into better detail with internal engine disassembly steps.
02-21-2019
