BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Here is how you get the car timed properly if youve spun one of your gears:

This is cam gear TDC. There is an "UP" mark on the cam gear, but there are also two notches on the gear itself. If you look at the gear on the side that faces the cylinder head you can see them. When they are lined up perfectly even with the block and the UP facing UP you know it's at TDC:



This is crank TDC:



Once these two are perfectly aligned and the timing belt is ON. Which was a bitch because every time I put the timing belt on the stupid crank would move out of TDC. It really takes two people to do properly. I spun the cam pulley twice counterclockwise with the timing belt installed, and everything was still lined up.

The final check is this. Once you put the crank pulley on, and it's torqued. It also has TDC marks on it. So, I spun the crank pulley 6 times counterclockwise and then set it to TDC with the markings in the following picture, and the cam gear was also TDC which means everything SHOULD be aligned. So essentially it was checked three times.

This is crank pulley TDC, it is best to look at it from above not below:

Thaik

How come in the picture it has many timing marks on the crank pulley?
On my car, there's only one mark.
I thought multiple marks were designed for cars with distributor for ignition timing.

Besides, mine doesn't even have 2 marks on both sides of the pulley, only on the inner part.

Thanks

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

More information on your car please. Year.. etc. The crank pulley is only just a "Check" after everything has been assembled. You should know your timing is correct long before the pulley is installed. It's also for checking your timing without removing the plastic belt covers in case your checking for timing failure. Though there are a few marks only one matters and that's the right one in the picture. I think the other marks are basically pointing "UP" when in TDC. However, I could be wrong.

Thaik

The car is a Honda Civic DX (SE) 2004 Manual Transmission.
I see, so there's a mark on the crank too after removing the crank pulley.
Are you talking about the woodruff key mark? Or it another one?

I know only one mark on the pulley matters, but I don't understand why there might be others. I know on cars that has distributors, these marks are used for adjusting the ignition timing.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

There are two pulleys.. The crank pulley and the timing belt pulley. The mark on the timing belt pulley is much more important than the crank pulley during assembly. However, the crank pulley must be right on. The timing belt pulley is a very small "Gear" that sits directly behind the crank pulley and some consider it part of the crank. Even though it comes off the end.

Thaik

I used a timing light to check the timing, and the timing wasn't right, it's about 1-1.5 cm off. Can I rely on that reading?

I know timing light are more useful when adjusting the ignition timing, but at least, does it tell the timing accurately?

Thanks

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Timing light should be accurate if used correctly. However, the marks should be accurate as well. I don't have much experience with a light to be honest but I've heard they are very good.

Thaik

I think timing lights are useful for our cars only if you want to know if the timing is right without having to remove everything to get inside.

BobDobolina

When I did my timing belt replacement, I cant recall any mention of even needing a timing light, I just lined up the marks...digital (aka no dizzy) ignition is controlled by the car's computer, which calculates what to correct via the TDC sensor and one by the camshaft.

Truth be told im not positive on all that, just that my car still purrs like a kitten thousands of mile AFTER the T belt job...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Nope, no timing light is necessary

Thaik

I think they are only useful for the lazy ones who don't want to remove the valve cover, crank pulley to check the marks xD

What I need to know is if they are any colors on one of the marks on the crank pulley, the mark I saw when using the timing light was red-orange.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I can't say that I know on 6th gens.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

timing light is for the ignition, crank mark is for the physical location of the belts on the teeth of teh gears.
Ignition will advance or retard accordingly to RPM or signals sent either by knock sensor or else. If the crank marks are not made and placed accordingly to the RPM or controller, they are meaningless. No point in using the timing light at all. if you rev the engine, the timing will move from there. dizzied cars will have marks specifically with angles to know the timing. that's all.

Thaik

Just asking hmm.
Can a timing that is off cause some valve noise?
Mine does especially when the engine is warm.

Thanks

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

What kind of valve noise? Ticking is caused by the valve lash being out of adjustment and you should take care of that

Thaik

This has been taken care of already.
I did the valve clearance adjustment about two month ago, no more clicking.I'm talking about tapping, knocking noise when accelerating (only when accelerating), especially when the engine is warm/hot.

alex_nyc

Just line up the marks??

Do you have to be concerned about your cam being 180 degrees in the wrong direction even if the marks are correct? or is this 180 degree issue just a V engine issue?

Thaik

I think you have to be.

This is why you also have to observed the "UP" mark on the cam pulley to avoid that sort of thing. The "UP" mark obviously has to be pointed upward.

You also have to check the mark on the crank pulley/harmonic balancer.
If you watch all of those mark, you shouldn't have any problem.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Follow the directions and you will be safe, as mentioned make sure the cam is pointed UP.

frascati

A comment on another forum suggested using whiteout to mark the old timing belt (original factory installation) at the crank and cam pulley tdc marks. Remove old belt. Transcribe the marks to precisely the same tooth or valley on the new timing belt. In this way, barring accidental erasure of the marks, installation would be mistake proofed.

Sound like good advice?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Sure. But why? The marks are already on the cam and crankshaft. It's literally the same thing but if your not at TDC your not going to be 100% accurate every time. If you are at TDC and you follow the marks on the cam and crank you will be certain the timing is perfect. I've seen quite a few methods of doing it so far on the D17 but I definitely still like the method I've described above the best. If Honda mechanics use it ... It must be the right way to do it.

kinakoes2

Adding to the explanations above... on any IC 4-stroke SOHC gas engine, your cam will spin ONCE for every TWO revs of the crank. So it's the crank's position that you have to worry about when installing the belt -- not the cam. Just make sure the UP mark and gasket surface marks are aligned on the cam, and do a #1 TDC check before aligning your crank mark -- that way you *know* the cam and crank aren't 180-degs out.

And always, always, ALWAYS... check your timing marks after torquing everything down, by hand. You can never overcheck... because having to take everything apart all over again because you rushed yourself, rather than take an extra 30 secs to recheck... is a true beeyotch.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Good addition. I shall add it to the top.