Body roll, body roll, body roll!!
07-25-2004
#1
Body roll, body roll, body roll!!
I just got back from a event today and thats all people who were watching me were saying and i was feeling, god damn body roll. I was gonna wait for a while and save up for Teins but i really can't deal with it anymore.
What springs would you guys recommend to get the thing to stop rolling over like a damn sail boat?
btw i'm on stock RSX shocks/springs, neuspeed FSTB, RSX front sway, Progress rear sway.
What springs would you guys recommend to get the thing to stop rolling over like a damn sail boat?
btw i'm on stock RSX shocks/springs, neuspeed FSTB, RSX front sway, Progress rear sway.
07-25-2004
#3
Why is my vagina bleeding?
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Hawk is a how is a stock RSX Type S suspension set-up. Is it possible for you to actually tip it over with the stock tires, or is just understeer, understeer and understeer.
07-25-2004
#4
Originally Posted by civic01vtec
why not save up and do it right .
nindoo the stock rsx suspension sucks on the civic. Thats why i want to know good springs for auto-x.
07-25-2004
#5
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Rep Power: 280 Would the stock suspension react differently on an actual rsx?
I see a lot of people reccomending Teins, but they don't race so I don't know if the information is credible. Zzyzx is pretty crazy about suspension maybe you could ask him.
I see a lot of people reccomending Teins, but they don't race so I don't know if the information is credible. Zzyzx is pretty crazy about suspension maybe you could ask him.
Last edited by nindoo; 07-25-2004 at 08:18 PM.
07-25-2004
#7
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Rep Power: 0 those azenis are gripping more than the rest of the suspension is capable of. to make a long story short. and as far as the RSX suspension on a civic, the main difference is the spring rates and shock valving. if you had the stock RSX michelins on, it wouldnt be so bad, maybe a little quirky, but it wouldnt roll nearly as much
07-26-2004
#8
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Originally Posted by civic01vtec
why not save up and do it right .
Coilovers are Grossly over rated and Over hyped. Yes there are a few out there that may be worth it but if you are Looking to get the most out of your car, then a set of Custom spring rate Ground controls and a set of Konis are an excelent way to do it. (Probably the single most common Race set up in both Autocross and Club racing is the Ground control/Koni combo).
Hawk, I'd start by picking up a set of ground controls... and posibly in the near future run custom spring rates... ( Use JIC or Tein Flex as a base reference for spring rates). You are DEFINITLY going to want a set of Konis, Night and day difference in handling. Even Vs brand new OEM.... (Konis would have been My first mod If I knew then what I know now).
07-26-2004
#9
Originally Posted by Zzyzx
Because if he picks the right springs and gets some konis he is doing it right.
Hawk, I'd start by picking up a set of ground controls... and posibly in the near future run custom spring rates... ( Use JIC or Tein Flex as a base reference for spring rates). You are DEFINITLY going to want a set of Konis, Night and day difference in handling. Even Vs brand new OEM.... (Konis would have been My first mod If I knew then what I know now).
Hawk, I'd start by picking up a set of ground controls... and posibly in the near future run custom spring rates... ( Use JIC or Tein Flex as a base reference for spring rates). You are DEFINITLY going to want a set of Konis, Night and day difference in handling. Even Vs brand new OEM.... (Konis would have been My first mod If I knew then what I know now).
07-26-2004
#10
i need height adjustability, If i use RSX lowering springs the rear will be to high, if i use civics the front will be to low, with sleeved springs i can put it right where i want it. Plus neuspeed races are to low.
07-26-2004
#13
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Use JIC or Tein Flex as a base reference for spring rates)
07-26-2004
#14
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Rep Power: 356 Hawk, I forgot to ask. How is the car handilng Right now Regarless of the body roll? Push? Lose? what?
07-26-2004
#15
oversteer if i flick it into a corner, understeer around the big ones (we had a skid pad at the last track) So basically when auto crossing it primarily oversteers. Which becomes a problem slaloming sometimes
07-27-2004
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Originally Posted by Hawk
oversteer if i flick it into a corner, understeer around the big ones (we had a skid pad at the last track) So basically when auto crossing it primarily oversteers. Which becomes a problem slaloming sometimes
My suggestion(s)......
"Oversteer if I flick it into a corner," - More throttle, don't "flick" so hard...or just slow down, lol.
"Understeer around the big ones" - Less throttle (maybe) or just don't turn the wheel so much (that was my problem, take about 1" off the turn from the wheel, and you won't understeer so much, IMO
"So basically when auto crossing it primarily oversteers." - TAKE THE TURNS WIDER, and SMOOTHER...less *** happy tendancy. "Which becomes a problem slaloming sometimes" - Set up for the next turn WAY ahead of time, it's all about placement.
Honestly, from what you described, yer car handles like a stock Vette (or so I've seen).
Just my $0.02......ADJUST YOUR DRIVING FIRST.....it's MUCH cheaper to try new techniques than it is to buy new parts to compensate for ability (or lack thereof....NO OFFENSE INTENDED). *By NO means am I saying I'm a good driver, this is just stuff I've learned in my EP3, as it handles SIMILAR to what you've described.*
07-27-2004
#17
Originally Posted by FattyMcJ
My suggestion(s)......
"Oversteer if I flick it into a corner," - More throttle, don't "flick" so hard...or just slow down, lol.
Maybe i described it wrong, but my cars *** comes out no mater what you do. If i'm coming into a slalom, i can make the first 2 cones, by the third the *** is sliding no matter how fast i go, hell on the parade lap (can't go over 15mph) i get oversteer
"Understeer around the big ones" - Less throttle (maybe) or just don't turn the wheel so much (that was my problem, take about 1" off the turn from the wheel, and you won't understeer so much, IMO
I think anyone that races knows that if you get off the gas the car will stop understeering. Its not really that bad and not a real concern. It oversteers alot more than understeers
"So basically when auto crossing it primarily oversteers." - TAKE THE TURNS WIDER, and SMOOTHER...less *** happy tendancy. "Which becomes a problem slaloming sometimes" - Set up for the next turn WAY ahead of time, it's all about placement.
once again no mater how i take a turn the car will oversteer, its to light in the ***. You have to understand i'm running a rear spring rate made for the RSX the RSX is alot more *** heavy than the Civic.
Honestly, from what you described, yer car handles like a stock Vette (or so I've seen).
Just my $0.02......ADJUST YOUR DRIVING FIRST.....it's MUCH cheaper to try new techniques than it is to buy new parts to compensate for ability (or lack thereof....NO OFFENSE INTENDED). *By NO means am I saying I'm a good driver, this is just stuff I've learned in my EP3, as it handles SIMILAR to what you've described.*
"Oversteer if I flick it into a corner," - More throttle, don't "flick" so hard...or just slow down, lol.
Maybe i described it wrong, but my cars *** comes out no mater what you do. If i'm coming into a slalom, i can make the first 2 cones, by the third the *** is sliding no matter how fast i go, hell on the parade lap (can't go over 15mph) i get oversteer
"Understeer around the big ones" - Less throttle (maybe) or just don't turn the wheel so much (that was my problem, take about 1" off the turn from the wheel, and you won't understeer so much, IMO
I think anyone that races knows that if you get off the gas the car will stop understeering. Its not really that bad and not a real concern. It oversteers alot more than understeers
"So basically when auto crossing it primarily oversteers." - TAKE THE TURNS WIDER, and SMOOTHER...less *** happy tendancy. "Which becomes a problem slaloming sometimes" - Set up for the next turn WAY ahead of time, it's all about placement.
once again no mater how i take a turn the car will oversteer, its to light in the ***. You have to understand i'm running a rear spring rate made for the RSX the RSX is alot more *** heavy than the Civic.
Honestly, from what you described, yer car handles like a stock Vette (or so I've seen).
Just my $0.02......ADJUST YOUR DRIVING FIRST.....it's MUCH cheaper to try new techniques than it is to buy new parts to compensate for ability (or lack thereof....NO OFFENSE INTENDED). *By NO means am I saying I'm a good driver, this is just stuff I've learned in my EP3, as it handles SIMILAR to what you've described.*
What i'm getting around to is i've done fun runs in other peoples cars, ep3, neon r/t, prelude, and not had this problem, my car oversteers alot more than it should because of the spring rates out back...thats all. By getting the correct spring rate out back it will cure my oversteer.
07-27-2004
#18
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Rep Power: 356 You're running on OEM shocks right??? a set of Konis will do wonders for your INstant oversteer problem..... Dampers are the primary influence on corner entry and exit handling characteristics... So if the car oversteers on corner entry, like you describe by Flicking it in, and it understeers while mid corner (Steady state cornering, like on a skid pad) I would have to say you NEED a new set of Dampers....
To reply to your last post:
Steady state cornering characteristics are controled by the roll resistance on the front and rear of the car (Springs and anti roll bars) So if you described it right (From the skid pad), the car understeers at this point. this says that you dont have enough roll resistance at the back of the car yet.
My reccomendation Right now is, Dont buy new springs. Pick up a set of Konis and re-run the car. Spend a little time tuning with the shocks and see if the car still has that oversteer problem on corner entry.
To reply to your last post:
Steady state cornering characteristics are controled by the roll resistance on the front and rear of the car (Springs and anti roll bars) So if you described it right (From the skid pad), the car understeers at this point. this says that you dont have enough roll resistance at the back of the car yet.
My reccomendation Right now is, Dont buy new springs. Pick up a set of Konis and re-run the car. Spend a little time tuning with the shocks and see if the car still has that oversteer problem on corner entry.
Last edited by Zzyzx; 07-27-2004 at 10:26 AM.
07-27-2004
#19
Yea i'm running OEM RSX struts and springs.
i think it might still do it even with the konis because i looked up the spring rates and the RSX has a tighter spring rate in the rear than the Civic. I mean maybe if i give it a real tight setting up front a soft out rear it might counter act it.
I'm gonna buy a set of konis regaurdless. So i'll do them first, I think i might actually still have my old civic springs lying around, if i can find them i'll throw them in the back.
i think it might still do it even with the konis because i looked up the spring rates and the RSX has a tighter spring rate in the rear than the Civic. I mean maybe if i give it a real tight setting up front a soft out rear it might counter act it.
I'm gonna buy a set of konis regaurdless. So i'll do them first, I think i might actually still have my old civic springs lying around, if i can find them i'll throw them in the back.
07-27-2004
#20
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Rep Power: 356 My argument is that with the car oversteering on corner entry, it sounds like the car is shfiting weight off the rear end too quickly, causing a quick loss of traction on the rear end = Oversteer. thats controled by the dampers.... If the car is understeering in sweepers as indicated on the skidpad then going with softer springs on the rear is just going to make that worse.
07-27-2004
#21
If the spring rate was to high in the rear, wouldn't that also get the weight off the *** to quickly?
I mean you know more than i do so i'll go with your idea, but i was just thinking that could do it too. I'll do the konis and see what happens. Thanks for the help.
I mean you know more than i do so i'll go with your idea, but i was just thinking that could do it too. I'll do the konis and see what happens. Thanks for the help.
07-27-2004
#22
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Rep Power: 0 I love my eibach springs. I'm not sure what the difference between the vic spring and the rsx springs are. (spring rates)
But like Zzyzx said, adjustable dampers might just do the trick. You are describing 2 different problems that may just need to have the same spring rate, but different damper settings for the front and back.
What body stiffing do you have? Maybe tightening up the body a little will give you an improvement.
But like Zzyzx said, adjustable dampers might just do the trick. You are describing 2 different problems that may just need to have the same spring rate, but different damper settings for the front and back.
What body stiffing do you have? Maybe tightening up the body a little will give you an improvement.
07-27-2004
#24
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Originally Posted by Hawk
If the spring rate was to high in the rear, wouldn't that also get the weight off the *** to quickly?
not really, Springs dont control how fast weight gets transfered, they just control where it goes (Front or rear of the car). The Dampers control how fast weight gets remove and applied to any particular corner of the car.
07-27-2004
#25
ok that makes more sense. Still bothers me that the car sits about 1 inch higher in the back than a stock civic.
Now i just gotta save up the loot for the Konis, i think i'm gonna get the coilovers while i'm at it, i mean might as well get both at once, don't feel like taking apart the suspension twice.
Now i just gotta save up the loot for the Konis, i think i'm gonna get the coilovers while i'm at it, i mean might as well get both at once, don't feel like taking apart the suspension twice.
07-27-2004
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Originally Posted by Hawk
ok that makes more sense. Still bothers me that the car sits about 1 inch higher in the back than a stock civic.
Now i just gotta save up the loot for the Konis, i think i'm gonna get the coilovers while i'm at it, i mean might as well get both at once, don't feel like taking apart the suspension twice.
Now i just gotta save up the loot for the Konis, i think i'm gonna get the coilovers while i'm at it, i mean might as well get both at once, don't feel like taking apart the suspension twice.
Why not? It's FUN!!!
Good choice, but it might be a bit more of a change than you expected....so you'll have to re-learn the car a bit.
07-27-2004
#27
i've had my car apart enough to where its not much fun anymore
Yea i'm sure i'll have to get used to having a good suspension. I mean last event i finished 15th out of 35 with my horrible setup. so once i get used to the good suspension.......oh man i can't wait
Yea i'm sure i'll have to get used to having a good suspension. I mean last event i finished 15th out of 35 with my horrible setup. so once i get used to the good suspension.......oh man i can't wait
07-31-2004
#29
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Rep Power: 0 hey i just got eibach springs. i read the FAQ and in the suspension section it sed that the lowering springs alone r a bad choice. what do i need to replace to compensate. is there anythin that will go well with the eiback sportline springs that i got?? anythin that will allow me to keep the springs??
07-31-2004
#30
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Rep Power: 356 ^^ save for a set of Konis. Dampers should be your #1 or #2 Suspension mod if you are going for handling.
