Forced Induction and SwapsPost information/questions about Forced Induction methods (Turbos & Nitrous Oxide) and swaps here.
Welcome to civicforums.com!
Welcome to civicforums.com.
You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to start new topics, reply to conversations, privately message other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join civicforums.com today!
T.E.A.R.S. - Turbocharged Engines Anonymous Relief and Support Thread
This thread was inspired by speedfoos. We all know about his very public and very obscene battle against his car's engine. So... I pose this question: Who's Turbo Sucks More?
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedfoos
Cool!! Good stuff man.
But, I'll see your misfires and raise you a "No tach signal" on who's turbo sucks more!
This is not to be taken literally in terms of "sucking" because I can't take any more gloating from andyman and supermex about how much boost they run. Sorry guys - this is for us little people.
Heres the object - post in a SIMPLIFIED list form all the crap and headaches you've dealt with trying to get your turbo to work. Let's hear all those complainers out there!
Since I'm starting the thread, here's mine:
- Bought a used kit that *supposedly* had everything I needed.
- Bracket that holds the clutch cable is in the path of my charge pipe. It also happens to be frozen to the transmission and 1/4" away from the sensor bung. 3 hours and 20 Dremel heads later, it was removed.
- A previous accident makes my radiator support actually touch my turbo's inlet housing. Still like that to this day.
- My turbo oil feed line only threads on one end. So I threaded the end onto the turbo by rotating the whole line, then put the working end on the sandwich plate... so if I want to take it off, the whole assembly's gotta go.
- Apparently whoever designed my downpipe thinks it's possible to bolt on in one piece without having to take off the power steering pump or the alternator.
- That same designer made me Dremel off almost 1" of excess metal off the bottom of the alternator bracket. That was a good way to spend an entire night.
- The I/C pipes wrap around the front passenger side... and require you hammer down part of the frame.
- I had an extra elbow coupling. Didn't figure out what it was for until 3 weeks later when I left a charge pipe on the road doing 50mph. Turns out there are two possible ways to lay out the piping.
- Blew my headgasket. Had to hose down my engine bay because burning coolant doesn't smell so good and I'm sure it's not good for the manifold paint.
- Fouled 8 plugs and 1 O2 sensor so far.
- After rebuilding, got SCREWED by a tuner who lied to me. Now I need to spend even more money.
- Apparently, Civics aren't supposed to get less than 200 miles to the tank. Something tells me I'm running rich.
Final note: Never do a driveway build in the wintertime at night. 15º temperatures are not conducive to building your car properly.
Total cost so far = $5500
To remove this ad, register today for free or log in if already registered!
__________________ 7thGen.MT.C. Automotive Photography Guide BenArts
Formerly: D17A2 Turbo @ 9psi 193.96HP & 179.36 lb/ft
Currently: D17A2 Turbo @ 5psi Way too rich HP & Way too slow lb/ft
Nuff said... but to the turbo's credit, it snapped because there was a loose manifold/turbo flange bolt and it was bleeding exhaust.... which required more shaft speed to keep the boost up and I ultimately oversped it. Oh well.... learned the hard way to use oval-lock nuts.
Lets see, what else have I broken....
2 headgaskets (one in each motor)
Defective oil pump seal that almost cost me the new motor
E-manage never worked right, couldn't get VTEC to engage low enough to make it smooth (thank goodness for Kpro)
Torn BOV diaphragm (on the dyno no less)
I guess thats really it. I havent had too many issues with it, and of late its been behaving pretty well, and it survived a whole weekend at the track (thats a first). Most of the major problems have been worked out.
When its running like it ought to be... its all worth it.
-bought a homemade turbo kit off a dude. said everything would fit. upon recieving it the turbo has some serious shaftplay and the wastegate was half busted.
-that guy had a DX...i have an EX..none of the charge pipes fit.
-the DP hit the alt.
-sold the kit for 600 less than i bought it...ouch!
-kept the Emanage that was in the kit...and the Dezod PNP harness. harness had four broken wires that i had to rig up.
-bought XSRcivic's Dezod turbo kit. finally some quality work!
-read the dezod DIY for installing his kit....said to install DP turbo and manifold all in one shot. tried that...DP got in the way and had to beat the shit out of the crossmember to make it fit.
-went to jail
-got car tunned....... guy tunned it to 218HP but at 4500RPM..the car takes off like a ****ing rocket because of the Vtec jump..?
-came home after tuning and told Dezod about the good news that my car runs great....atleast i thought so.
-dezod offers me a V3 manifold and V3 intercooler for FREE in return for another tuning session. i agree. recieve the parts and return to the dyno. 150 bux to tune this time and makes it to 240 whp still with the Vtec jump. tuner says its supposed to do that.....
-had to get a wastegate dump tube made. 300 in welding. and they busted an AC line in the process.
-car had srt4 injectors in it...ran like SHIT! wouldnt idle properly, would only perform well under full throttle. had to throw out the tune and make my own map.
-discovered that the SRT4 injectors were the problem and went back to rsx-s....car run like a dream.
-need a new hood after first go around with turbo...wastegate put a nice dent in it.
-fried 4 sets of plugs, and one wideband o2 sensor and 5 fuses. 2 of those sets of plugs were iridiums...ouch!
seen 15psi before in this car. car still runs.
- assholes who welded my oil pan tap in...that was a $300 bullshit job! used a surface prep disc on my oil pan where it mates to the block to get the hondabond off... used RTV silicone to reseal it. but its uneven and leaks like a mother****er! twice ive taken it off and tried to reseal it.
-was told i needed a high flow pump. dropped 110 bux on a walbro...and it doesnt work right still... pump works great but the car wont run at all under a quarter tank of gas
- SRT4 injectors idles at 12.5 AF ratio. all the time. i step into it..and until i reach peak boost. AF is at 10.2 the leans out to 13.5
- total spent...two turbo kits and everything else. 5000
Do you guys remember ST8RACE from NY? I think he had the most problems with his turbo kit but eventually got it running. I haven't seen him post in a long time though. I can't count how many members on here that have blown headgaskets though, all for various reasons.
-down pipe I bought from dezod had the o2 bung in the wrong place so my wideband was could not fit because it was hitting the block, soooo I had to remove one of my o2 sensors and run my car on 1 o2 sensor.
-the second piece of my down pipe from dezod was to short so I had to pay an exhaust shop to extend it.
-PCS was messed up, so I called PCS and they said the unit was bad. I waited for them to send me another one and it did not work. Then they said the wire harnes was bad, so I had to wait for them to send me another one. Finally it worked after a week of headaches and I am left with an extra PCS XFC anyone wana buy it?
-After getting everything working, I took the car to get tuned and I was maxing out my injectors so I had to buy a new pump and srt injectors.
-Putting the fuel pump in was a pain in the ass and took 3 hours.
-The I took the car to get tuned again and I blew my head gasket.
-After having my kit in for like 5 months, I havent had one chance to reallly enjoy it........sigh
lol ive seen alot more bad ones in the past and its the main reason i ended up staying na. i dont have the money or time for it. i had emanage with harness and injectors, saving for dezod economy kit, had a shop lined up and everything for the install, then my headgasket blew from a bad pnp head job, i had to pay quite a bit to have that fixed plus a new head and cleaning and fluids gaskets etc, and finally got pissed and sold the parts i had.
A stock K (and to a fairly good extent, a modded K) is in no way faster than a turbo single cam....You can ask all the FG2s and RSX-S that were stupid enough to try me.
Shoving air in makes torque... 240 HP with 150 lb-ft or 240 HP with 200+ lb-ft, doesnt take much to figure out where it'll go... you're looking at similar power curves (they keep rising), the bigger area under the curve is gonna be faster... the faster the torque comes up, the faster the horsepower does too.
For the money, boost is still worth it, even with the headaches. Shit happens, you can break just about anything if you try hard enough. You fight with it for a little while, then get it running right and if you can convince yourself to leave it alone.... it works just fine.
Ive got the dezod kit and a built engine. Just blew the HG because I made a dumbass mistake and diddn't notice that the torque spec for the head studs was in Nm (in the honda manual).
The head comes off tomorrow. Im just hoping I diddn't screw anything up. If I did owell, live and learn.
If you aernt mechanically inclined then keep your car stock. If you can do work yourself or you have no problem spending TONS of money for someone else to do it then go ahead.
__________________ Me - 2001 K20A2 Civic & 2005 Acura RL
i'd rather swap to a k. so much easier and wayy faster.
its not faster...not on install or on power. i put my turbo kit in in a weekend and had it running by sun night. started on fri and ended on sun night. running and done. all that needed was a tune. ran for a month on no tune cause i didnt have the money to get it tunned. it was street tunned by me to 4psi. once i got money i had it tuned and it was much better at 11psi then the 4psi i had it at. but with my 4psi street tune i made 151WHP on the dyno with it.
This thread wasn't a way to deter people from going turbo! I wouldn't have it any other way. However... it's like a support group for us that choose to hate ourselves.
__________________ 7thGen.MT.C. Automotive Photography Guide BenArts
Formerly: D17A2 Turbo @ 9psi 193.96HP & 179.36 lb/ft
Currently: D17A2 Turbo @ 5psi Way too rich HP & Way too slow lb/ft
i not only break turbo parts i also break Honda parts regularly. if you think you can go FI and NOT have a problem your are an idiot... it can and will happen. but i love being boosted.
lets see it all started on this forum..
-i started off with a used SF kit, everything came with it minus a fuel system. I saved up, bought my fuel system (emanage, rsx-s injectors) through forums. Then spent a few months collecting parts i needed for the build on ebay (gauges, boost controller, turbo timer, pod, wideband, etc..)
-in order to run the EX setup, i had to convert my DX exhaust setup to an EX layout. I had to get a cat-back, a new front sway bar, and do some shit to my o2 sensors.
-Decided I wanted to run an external gate. Tossed the internal setup. Turns out my SF turbo uses a non-standard 5 bolt exhaust flange and I spent a month looking for someone that made one. I find out it uses a "mercedes style" flange. So finally I have the shit i need to make a downpipe.
-My manifold doesnt support the external gate. I sell it, buy a dezod EL manifold.
-Manifold is very pretty, but wont go in the car without hacking out a part of my radiator support and runner #4 rests on my upper coolant hose, melting it within 2 days of driving. Car overheats, I decide not to risk it. I have a custom thermostat housing made to route the upper hose away from the manifold.
-Finally it's all geared up and ready to go. I get my car tuned with boiler. I put down approx. 175 whp at .4 bar. I loved it, car ran great for a YEAR, yes, an entire YEAR!
-Turbo and oil pan develop serious leaks that i cant spot because they only happen under boost. I remove PCV system in favor of a catch can. Buy a new oil pan and have a new return port welded to it. Problem doesnt go away but slows down for a while. Turbo seals go because i didnt use a restrictor on my oil feed. AND my dezod EL manifold cracks on runner #1. AND my head gasket blows. I get a ton of bad shit at once.
-early summer i pull off my entire kit. I sell my boost controller and turbo timer, I give away my emanage in return for a shit ton of welding.
-Save up, I decided to go bigger the next go around. I did an EX head swap, hondata Kpro, stage 2 cam, springs/retainers, clutch/fly, brand new turbo, V-band exhaust and almost $500 worth in brand new OEM parts (mainly new gaskets for everything)
-Currently running my new setup and loving it. my car has never felt so solid. Im finishing up a return fuel conversion and fuel pump upgrade and im off to get it tuned. #'s coming soon.
overall, it's been expensive, ive lost count of how much money ive spent. probably in the 5-7k i think my base kit price was about 4500. and i easily dropped a good 2 g's in the new parts and kpro. made back some dollars in the parts i sold. The way i see it, it's still cheaper than a new car note, and when it's done, it'll be quick. No real regrets, just lots and lots of cussing, you can ask justin. I <3 boost.
__________________
sig by speedfoos The DX resource site.
-2002 SSM EM2 - D17A1/A2 hybrid turbo(vtec, non-egr, steel oil pan, Hondata managed) 240 fwhp, 210 lb/ft tq @ 9.5 psi
-1991 MK3 Toyota Supra turbo (full cage, track setup) TBA
-2008 Honda NPS50 Ruckus - Stock 5 rwhp
Last edited by skipbarber; 09-10-2007 at 02:28 PM.
Re: Who's Turbo Sucks More? (Boost Anonymous Support Group)
Might as well put my gripes.. As Buds said, I had that kit before him.
-Took a week vacation from work to get this done and enjoy it, during installation, the alternator post broke off when trying to remove it, had to order a new one from autozone.
-spend 3 days troubleshooting a oil return leak (so I thought), only to find out that the damn camshaft seal wasn't seated right!
-oil return fitting always leaked.
-turbo housing bolts came loose, a few fell out god knows how long they were like that.
-wastegate and charge pipe made dents in my hood.
-never got the kit 100% nor did I get it tuned. I did street tune it but not knowing much about what I was doing, didnt help.
It was a serious learning curve and I am much more knowledgable about this stuff and I know what NOT to do next time.
Re: Who's Turbo Sucks More? (Boost Anonymous Support Group)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuJaK.3
thread shouldn't deter people from boosting but noobs shouldn't boost. simple as that, boost can be so fun. gathering kit, installing, and actually driving it is a blast IMO.
oddly enough im agreeing with Sujak, but ive had ZERO problems with my engine. Tranny on the oter hand blew it up in 10,000 milesafter boost but i knew it was coming being auto trans.
__________________ 169.8whp / 154 ft lbs tq @ 7psi with an auto trans! Now 10psi no dyno yet! Click Image for my turbo install!
Re: Who's Turbo Sucks More? (Boost Anonymous Support Group)
Totaly stock D17a2, Exeedy organic clutch and TSI kit. Upgrated fuel system. Daily driven 9psi, appx 23000 miles.
Only had instalation issues, just like with any other kit outthere. Cant remeber now, but for it took me ~50 hrs in total to put it in.
I'm no so much into electonics and tuting, so it took me few days of internet reading and hands on practice to get it runing right after fuel upgrade. (I started liking tuning afterwards)
As someone said before, all of it is just part of fun.
No mecanical problems, what so ever, only oil chages every 4000-5000 miles with mineral oil 5w20 Castrol GTX and Sunoco 94 octane gas.
I'm not shy to redline or downshift with vigorous punch.
I'm probably the only member who is happy with TSI kit.
Re: Who's Turbo Sucks More? (Boost Anonymous Support Group)
I made a homemade kit and my car ended up being down for like 2 weeks.
Some stuff happened but eventually it all worked out
Started up on first try and everything was running smooth
****Note**** Do not boost if you're running a 01-03 automatic, your tranny is gonna give on you soooo fast. plus, you only get an OK gain.
Not to mention, I never put on a turbo on myself, only had basic knowledge of what i was suppose to do. Now, i can say I put together a successful turbo
