'92 Civic won't start when it's humid
12-04-2011
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'92 Civic won't start when it's humid
1st post.
When there is even the slightest bit of humidity, my car will not start.
* The car cranks over and has spark, but the spark is weak and orange in color.
* When the car is running, the spark is identical, so it seems the car should still start with the weak spark.
* The distributor has a new cap and rotor as well as plug wires, but aftermarket. I still have to test spark at the cap itself ( it's raining now and I'm without a garage )
* The engine is grounded and the battery has good voltage all the way to the starter, as well as the leads running to the fuse box in the engine bay .
* All fuses look OK.( None are blown )
* I replaced the fuel pump and the main relay with new parts.
Both are fine when tested separately.
* When I install a jumper wire into the main relay plug I hear the pump come on and stay on when the key is turned to the ACC position, however the car will not start as it cranks.
* There is voltage at the pump when jumped, but none when using the main relay ( which works fine when tested for continuity )
* The ignition switch has only a slight bit of play in the cylinder. I have also sprayed it down with silicone spray.
* The car runs great any other time, and gets over 40 MPG, but a single raincloud ... even if it is a mile away, will kill this car.
What has me puzzled is that the car does not start with the main relay jumped, despite the engine having fuel and spark ( Fuel + air + spark = fire right ? )
I have not checked the air sensor. Could this be affected by humidity ?
But even if it did have to do with the air sensor, this does not explain why that the main relay fails to come on.
1993 Civic DX Hatch
1.5L Auto
127,000 + miles
When there is even the slightest bit of humidity, my car will not start.
* The car cranks over and has spark, but the spark is weak and orange in color.
* When the car is running, the spark is identical, so it seems the car should still start with the weak spark.
* The distributor has a new cap and rotor as well as plug wires, but aftermarket. I still have to test spark at the cap itself ( it's raining now and I'm without a garage )
* The engine is grounded and the battery has good voltage all the way to the starter, as well as the leads running to the fuse box in the engine bay .
* All fuses look OK.( None are blown )
* I replaced the fuel pump and the main relay with new parts.
Both are fine when tested separately.
* When I install a jumper wire into the main relay plug I hear the pump come on and stay on when the key is turned to the ACC position, however the car will not start as it cranks.
* There is voltage at the pump when jumped, but none when using the main relay ( which works fine when tested for continuity )
* The ignition switch has only a slight bit of play in the cylinder. I have also sprayed it down with silicone spray.
* The car runs great any other time, and gets over 40 MPG, but a single raincloud ... even if it is a mile away, will kill this car.
What has me puzzled is that the car does not start with the main relay jumped, despite the engine having fuel and spark ( Fuel + air + spark = fire right ? )
I have not checked the air sensor. Could this be affected by humidity ?
But even if it did have to do with the air sensor, this does not explain why that the main relay fails to come on.
1993 Civic DX Hatch
1.5L Auto
127,000 + miles
Last edited by CdXa; 12-04-2011 at 12:55 PM. Reason: Forgot the car specs. Doh !
12-11-2011
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No ideas at all ?
BTW, I just tested the ignition switch for continuity and it checks out.
The Chiltons guide is near useless, so i had to just follow the wires to the fuse panel. I pulled the brown plug that is connected to the fuse panel, but it doesn't have a plain white (power ) wire or blue and blue/white wire like the guide says.
It does have a thick white wire with a thin black stripe, a thick black wire with a thin yellow stripe, and a thick yellow wire without a stripe.
I followed the thick white power wire and it goes to a larger plug buried way under the dash. Testing on this plug resulted in no signal but it does have a large plain white wire.
The Chiltons guide says to test a five pin connector that has a white wire as well as blue and blue with white stripe wire. Where is this plug at ??
Thanks
Thanks.
BTW, I just tested the ignition switch for continuity and it checks out.
The Chiltons guide is near useless, so i had to just follow the wires to the fuse panel. I pulled the brown plug that is connected to the fuse panel, but it doesn't have a plain white (power ) wire or blue and blue/white wire like the guide says.
It does have a thick white wire with a thin black stripe, a thick black wire with a thin yellow stripe, and a thick yellow wire without a stripe.
I followed the thick white power wire and it goes to a larger plug buried way under the dash. Testing on this plug resulted in no signal but it does have a large plain white wire.
The Chiltons guide says to test a five pin connector that has a white wire as well as blue and blue with white stripe wire. Where is this plug at ??
Thanks
Thanks.
12-11-2011
#4
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
Ok, I'll bite. Most of the time, a complaint related to humidity and rain has to do with spark, or a lack of spark getting to where it is needed.
You say this: "The car cranks over and has spark, but the spark is weak and orange in color"
Where are you checking this? At the spark plug end of the wires? What makes you say it is weak?
How large of an air gap will the spark jump across at the end of the plug wires?
What about directly out of the coil--- how large of an air gap will the spark jump across?
You say this: "The car cranks over and has spark, but the spark is weak and orange in color"
Where are you checking this? At the spark plug end of the wires? What makes you say it is weak?
How large of an air gap will the spark jump across at the end of the plug wires?
What about directly out of the coil--- how large of an air gap will the spark jump across?
12-12-2011
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[QUOTE=ezone;4577457]Ok, I'll bite. Most of the time, a complaint related to humidity and rain has to do with spark, or a lack of spark getting to where it is needed.
You say this: "The car cranks over and has spark, but the spark is weak and orange in color"
Where are you checking this? At the spark plug end of the wires?
Yes, the spark is tested with the plug touching on a metal section of the engine bay.
What makes you say it is weak?
It is a small single spark with a definite orange color to it.
How large of an air gap will the spark jump across at the end of the plug wires?
Very small if any. ( untested, but pretty sure of this. )
What about directly out of the coil--- how large of an air gap will the spark jump across?
I was testing other areas of the car. This is next on the list of things to do.
I have a brand new distributor awaiting any problems that may show up.
I have put this off because even if the distro was bad, how would this explain the lack of signal to the fuel pump when the main relay is present ?
You say this: "The car cranks over and has spark, but the spark is weak and orange in color"
Where are you checking this? At the spark plug end of the wires?
Yes, the spark is tested with the plug touching on a metal section of the engine bay.
What makes you say it is weak?
It is a small single spark with a definite orange color to it.
How large of an air gap will the spark jump across at the end of the plug wires?
Very small if any. ( untested, but pretty sure of this. )
What about directly out of the coil--- how large of an air gap will the spark jump across?
I was testing other areas of the car. This is next on the list of things to do.
I have a brand new distributor awaiting any problems that may show up.
I have put this off because even if the distro was bad, how would this explain the lack of signal to the fuel pump when the main relay is present ?
12-12-2011
#6
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
See how large of a gap the spark will jump. It should be able to jump a good 1/2 inch gap easily when checked at the end of the plug wire.
Yes or no?
If yes and it is consistent, then spark isn't the issue (the amount of spark, I mean. Still could be other things).
If no, then pull the dist cap off and check spark right at the coil. Does it throw lightning bolts? Consistent?
( Fuel + air + spark = fire right ? )
In the correct amounts, at the correct places, and at the correct times.
Just because the fuel pump runs, does not mean the injectors are working.
And the engine itself has to be correct. Compression and timing checks?
Not sure what to think about your main relay question yet.
Have you checked the computer for codes? Maybe there is an easy answer there.
Yes or no?
If yes and it is consistent, then spark isn't the issue (the amount of spark, I mean. Still could be other things).
If no, then pull the dist cap off and check spark right at the coil. Does it throw lightning bolts? Consistent?
( Fuel + air + spark = fire right ? )
In the correct amounts, at the correct places, and at the correct times.
Just because the fuel pump runs, does not mean the injectors are working.
And the engine itself has to be correct. Compression and timing checks?
Not sure what to think about your main relay question yet.
Have you checked the computer for codes? Maybe there is an easy answer there.
12-13-2011
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[QUOTE=ezone;4577660]See how large of a gap the spark will jump. It should be able to jump a good 1/2 inch gap easily when checked at the end of the plug wire.
Yes or no?
no - as in HELL no ! It is just a tiny spark. I'm going to change the whole distributor, so this hopefully should fix things with the spark.
What i find puzzling is that even when the car is running flawlessly, the spark is the same weak orange spark. Right now, im just trying to figure out why that the signal is not making it past the main relay.
( Fuel + air + spark = fire right ? )
In the correct amounts, at the correct places, and at the correct times.
Just because the fuel pump runs, does not mean the injectors are working.
And the engine itself has to be correct. Compression and timing checks?
Not sure what to think about your main relay question yet.
Have you checked the computer for codes? Maybe there is an easy answer there.
No codes have appeared, and none flashed the last time i checked the computer. I'll look in that though.
Yes or no?
no - as in HELL no ! It is just a tiny spark. I'm going to change the whole distributor, so this hopefully should fix things with the spark.
What i find puzzling is that even when the car is running flawlessly, the spark is the same weak orange spark. Right now, im just trying to figure out why that the signal is not making it past the main relay.
( Fuel + air + spark = fire right ? )
In the correct amounts, at the correct places, and at the correct times.
Just because the fuel pump runs, does not mean the injectors are working.
And the engine itself has to be correct. Compression and timing checks?
Not sure what to think about your main relay question yet.
Have you checked the computer for codes? Maybe there is an easy answer there.
No codes have appeared, and none flashed the last time i checked the computer. I'll look in that though.
12-13-2011
#8
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
What i find puzzling is that even when the car is running flawlessly, the spark is the same weak orange spark.
A weak spark is usually a bad coil, probably 9 times out of 10 here. The coil burns a hole through the side and arcs to the metal shield when demand is high, instead of delivering spark to the plugs. By the time I get to see them they usually don't run at all. Occasionally I see them where water has gotten in the cap area too.
I'm not big on aftermarket electronics. Way too iffy. Lousy track record.
Right now, im just trying to figure out why that the signal is not making it past the main relay.
What signal are you talking about?
Normally when a main relay goes south, either the fuel pump doesn't run or the computer won't power up. Do you have both working?
Check powers at the main relay?
Terminal 5 should be hot in run and crank
Terminal 7 is hot at all times
Terminal 2 is hot in crank only
Terminal 3 is ground
Terminal 6 is power out to ECM and injectors and other stuff
Terminal 4 is power out to fuel pump
Terminal 1 is pump control from the ECM
You sure it is a relay problem?
A weak spark is usually a bad coil, probably 9 times out of 10 here. The coil burns a hole through the side and arcs to the metal shield when demand is high, instead of delivering spark to the plugs. By the time I get to see them they usually don't run at all. Occasionally I see them where water has gotten in the cap area too.
I'm not big on aftermarket electronics. Way too iffy. Lousy track record.
Right now, im just trying to figure out why that the signal is not making it past the main relay.
What signal are you talking about?
Normally when a main relay goes south, either the fuel pump doesn't run or the computer won't power up. Do you have both working?
Check powers at the main relay?
Terminal 5 should be hot in run and crank
Terminal 7 is hot at all times
Terminal 2 is hot in crank only
Terminal 3 is ground
Terminal 6 is power out to ECM and injectors and other stuff
Terminal 4 is power out to fuel pump
Terminal 1 is pump control from the ECM
You sure it is a relay problem?
12-14-2011
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[QUOTE=ezone;4577804]A weak spark is usually a bad coil, probably 9 times out of 10 here. The coil burns a hole through the side and arcs to the metal shield when demand is high, instead of delivering spark to the plugs. By the time I get to see them they usually don't run at all. Occasionally I see them where water has gotten in the cap area too.
I ran some test on the coil today using a Chilton manual for guidance. I had the coil replaced less than 500 miles ago, but had a shop do it.
Resistance at the "coil primary terminals" showed 0.00 when i touched a lead to the left and right ends as shown in the manual.
The picture in the manual shows 01.2 ohms for this test.
- In other words, i removed the wires just below the coil and stuck the leads into where that the screws go to hold the wires in place .
Resistance when touching the "coil positive terminal and the high tension ( secondary ) terminal" gave a reading of 15.8 ohms
( In other words, touching the screw port just to the left and under the coil and the other lead touching the spring in the coil.)
The manual shows a picture of their meter showing "15.99 " for this test .
I'm not big on aftermarket electronics. Way too iffy. Lousy track record.
I have the OEM part still and it tests out fine. The welds look perfect as well.
" Right now, im just trying to figure out why that the signal is not making it past the main relay."
What signal are you talking about?
Sorry about that. I should say the current instead of signal.
I'm really tired when i get off work. Cant think too well.
Normally when a main relay goes south, either the fuel pump doesn't run or the computer won't power up. Do you have both working?
The only time i have had the CEL come on was due to my VSS going crazy. The speedo was jumping everywhere. I replaced the part ( aftermarket ) and the light went out, but the problem was never fixed.
Other than that i haven't had any CEL . When i start the car all lights come on as they should and go off when they should.
I replaced the fuel pump myself. The pump gets voltage when i jump the main relay plug, but shows 0.00 when i plug the main relay back in.
I'm assuming that if the computer was going bad, it would throw out a CEL right ...or no.
Check powers at the main relay?
Terminal 5 should be hot in run and crank
Terminal 7 is hot at all times
Terminal 2 is hot in crank only
Terminal 3 is ground
Terminal 6 is power out to ECM and injectors and other stuff
Terminal 4 is power out to fuel pump
Terminal 1 is pump control from the ECM
Oh cool. Thanks ! I will check this tomorrow for sure.
I'm assuming i would be checking for voltage at the main relay plug right ( or did i misunderstand ? )
You sure it is a relay problem?
Actually the main relay checks out fine, as well as the ignition switch, and of course the fuses. Somewhere between the ignition switch and the fuel pump, current is not flowing unless i jump the plug.
I'm guessing that testing at the main relay plug is going to show some bad terminal ports !
One odd thing popped up when i tested my ignition switch for continuity. According to the Chiltons guide ( page 12-6) I'm supposed to have continuity with the key out with the blue/white (key) and the blue/white ( gnd) ports, but there was none.
I ran some test on the coil today using a Chilton manual for guidance. I had the coil replaced less than 500 miles ago, but had a shop do it.
Resistance at the "coil primary terminals" showed 0.00 when i touched a lead to the left and right ends as shown in the manual.
The picture in the manual shows 01.2 ohms for this test.
- In other words, i removed the wires just below the coil and stuck the leads into where that the screws go to hold the wires in place .
Resistance when touching the "coil positive terminal and the high tension ( secondary ) terminal" gave a reading of 15.8 ohms
( In other words, touching the screw port just to the left and under the coil and the other lead touching the spring in the coil.)
The manual shows a picture of their meter showing "15.99 " for this test .
I'm not big on aftermarket electronics. Way too iffy. Lousy track record.
I have the OEM part still and it tests out fine. The welds look perfect as well.
" Right now, im just trying to figure out why that the signal is not making it past the main relay."
What signal are you talking about?
Sorry about that. I should say the current instead of signal.
I'm really tired when i get off work. Cant think too well.
Normally when a main relay goes south, either the fuel pump doesn't run or the computer won't power up. Do you have both working?
The only time i have had the CEL come on was due to my VSS going crazy. The speedo was jumping everywhere. I replaced the part ( aftermarket ) and the light went out, but the problem was never fixed.
Other than that i haven't had any CEL . When i start the car all lights come on as they should and go off when they should.
I replaced the fuel pump myself. The pump gets voltage when i jump the main relay plug, but shows 0.00 when i plug the main relay back in.
I'm assuming that if the computer was going bad, it would throw out a CEL right ...or no.
Check powers at the main relay?
Terminal 5 should be hot in run and crank
Terminal 7 is hot at all times
Terminal 2 is hot in crank only
Terminal 3 is ground
Terminal 6 is power out to ECM and injectors and other stuff
Terminal 4 is power out to fuel pump
Terminal 1 is pump control from the ECM
Oh cool. Thanks ! I will check this tomorrow for sure.
I'm assuming i would be checking for voltage at the main relay plug right ( or did i misunderstand ? )
You sure it is a relay problem?
Actually the main relay checks out fine, as well as the ignition switch, and of course the fuses. Somewhere between the ignition switch and the fuel pump, current is not flowing unless i jump the plug.
I'm guessing that testing at the main relay plug is going to show some bad terminal ports !
One odd thing popped up when i tested my ignition switch for continuity. According to the Chiltons guide ( page 12-6) I'm supposed to have continuity with the key out with the blue/white (key) and the blue/white ( gnd) ports, but there was none.
12-14-2011
#10
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
The ground for the main relay (#3, black wire) attaches to the thermostat housing. Make sure it is clean and tight. The relay can't turn on correctly without it. Make sure the wire isn't broken inside the insulation too. This is a common problem area so take a close look.
Connect the voltmeter to chassis (battery) ground and the ground wire AT THE RELAY. Set it so it can read up to at least 12volts. Crank the engine. The meter should stay damn close to zero volts if that ground wire is good. Congratulations, that was a voltage drop test. Read more of my thoughts on ohm testing further down.
Here's wire colors for the main relay plug according to my diagram
Terminal 5 should be hot in run and crank (blk/yel)
Terminal 7 is hot at all times (yel/wht)
Terminal 2 is hot in crank only (blu/wht)
Terminal 3 is ground (blk)
Terminal 6 is power out to ECM and injectors and other stuff (yel/blk)
Terminal 4 is power out to fuel pump (yel/grn)
Terminal 1 is pump control from the ECM (grn/yel)
Use a test light or a volt meter on these. Take readings while it is live and plugged in and trying to operate.
Here's something bugging me about what you said earlier.....
A coil that is 500 miles old shouldn't be bad, but you never know. A good coil will be able to produce a strong enough spark to jump a 3/4 inch air gap directly out of its secondary tower.
Now, you have only said there is a weak spark....small and orange....but AFAIK all you have used for a gap test is a sparkplug. The spark will usually look orange inside a .044 gap.
I want to know how much spark is available when demanded from the coil.
You need to see how big of a gap it can jump. It needs to be able to jump a large gap, like a half inch at the plug wire, and 3/4 inch right out of the coil.
If there is enough spark to consistently jump the half inch (at least that much) air gap at the plug wire end, then I no longer care about what happens inside the cap, nor do I care how big the spark is right at the coil. I know it has sufficient kV available. Unless there is something else found during a wet test.
Reread what I already posted earlier about this.
About the meter:
Are you using the meter on the correct scales for each of those tests? (Mine is auto-ranging. Gotta pay attention and look for the little k next to the numbers.) If you had it set on, say, a 20k ohm scale on the first test (primary) then it will blow right past 1.2 ohms at that high of a scale and read all 000's.
Dynamic (live) testing is far better than just ohm testing the coil. If it makes sparks, then it has 12v and ground control from the igniter.
It will pass your ohm tests since it made spark. But that can't tell you if there is a breach of the housing (insulation). How far the spark will jump tells that.
If it will jump the large gap at the coil but not at the plug wires, then it is losing the spark energy within the cap and rotor (most likely).
You can't ohm test this stuff, and your meter isn't going to read 20-30kV. Live testing is the way to do it.
If no spark AT ALL, then check for 12v, and check for a dwell reading at the neg terminal coming from the igniter, while cranking it. I usually get a reading of 2-4 degrees while cranking. If there is 12v on the pos side and a dwell reading on the neg side, and no spark, then it must be a bad coil.
If 12v is missing, or if the dwell is missing, then you chase backwards to the next component.
See what I'm getting at?
Same deal for back when you said your ignition switch had continuity. That means nothing other than it passed that one test. That didn't put any load on the contacts. That didn't put any heat into it from the high loads that the switch must be able to handle. Live testing is far better. Plugged in and operating while you test. Testing voltage, not ohms. Your ohm meter only has a tiny 9volt battery for ohm tests. The ignition switch has to handle 15 to 30 amps, and that makes a whole lot of heat when there are poor contacts. Even then, it almost has to quit before you will find any problem.
Here is another thought that may be easier....get it to run, like fix the main relay problem...then while it is running spray the cap and plug wires with a dish soap and water mix (like you are washing dishes sort of mixture) then goose the throttle and see if it stumbles and misfires. You can usually hear the sparks snapping if it does misfire.
You recreated the humidity and moisture but now you controlled where it is. If it misfires then start replacing stuff or fixing the secondary leakage. Wire boots not well sealed to the cap?
------------------
I'm assuming that if the computer was going bad, it would throw out a CEL right ...or no.
Maybe, maybe not.
It depends.
If you were really going crazy, would you still believe you were sane?
------------------
Sorry it this sounds like ranting. I really wasn't trying to. I'm trying to cram several different things into one post.
Connect the voltmeter to chassis (battery) ground and the ground wire AT THE RELAY. Set it so it can read up to at least 12volts. Crank the engine. The meter should stay damn close to zero volts if that ground wire is good. Congratulations, that was a voltage drop test. Read more of my thoughts on ohm testing further down.
Here's wire colors for the main relay plug according to my diagram
Terminal 5 should be hot in run and crank (blk/yel)
Terminal 7 is hot at all times (yel/wht)
Terminal 2 is hot in crank only (blu/wht)
Terminal 3 is ground (blk)
Terminal 6 is power out to ECM and injectors and other stuff (yel/blk)
Terminal 4 is power out to fuel pump (yel/grn)
Terminal 1 is pump control from the ECM (grn/yel)
Use a test light or a volt meter on these. Take readings while it is live and plugged in and trying to operate.
Here's something bugging me about what you said earlier.....
A coil that is 500 miles old shouldn't be bad, but you never know. A good coil will be able to produce a strong enough spark to jump a 3/4 inch air gap directly out of its secondary tower.
Now, you have only said there is a weak spark....small and orange....but AFAIK all you have used for a gap test is a sparkplug. The spark will usually look orange inside a .044 gap.
I want to know how much spark is available when demanded from the coil.
You need to see how big of a gap it can jump. It needs to be able to jump a large gap, like a half inch at the plug wire, and 3/4 inch right out of the coil.
If there is enough spark to consistently jump the half inch (at least that much) air gap at the plug wire end, then I no longer care about what happens inside the cap, nor do I care how big the spark is right at the coil. I know it has sufficient kV available. Unless there is something else found during a wet test.
Reread what I already posted earlier about this.
About the meter:
Are you using the meter on the correct scales for each of those tests? (Mine is auto-ranging. Gotta pay attention and look for the little k next to the numbers.) If you had it set on, say, a 20k ohm scale on the first test (primary) then it will blow right past 1.2 ohms at that high of a scale and read all 000's.
Dynamic (live) testing is far better than just ohm testing the coil. If it makes sparks, then it has 12v and ground control from the igniter.
It will pass your ohm tests since it made spark. But that can't tell you if there is a breach of the housing (insulation). How far the spark will jump tells that.
If it will jump the large gap at the coil but not at the plug wires, then it is losing the spark energy within the cap and rotor (most likely).
You can't ohm test this stuff, and your meter isn't going to read 20-30kV. Live testing is the way to do it.
If no spark AT ALL, then check for 12v, and check for a dwell reading at the neg terminal coming from the igniter, while cranking it. I usually get a reading of 2-4 degrees while cranking. If there is 12v on the pos side and a dwell reading on the neg side, and no spark, then it must be a bad coil.
If 12v is missing, or if the dwell is missing, then you chase backwards to the next component.
See what I'm getting at?
Same deal for back when you said your ignition switch had continuity. That means nothing other than it passed that one test. That didn't put any load on the contacts. That didn't put any heat into it from the high loads that the switch must be able to handle. Live testing is far better. Plugged in and operating while you test. Testing voltage, not ohms. Your ohm meter only has a tiny 9volt battery for ohm tests. The ignition switch has to handle 15 to 30 amps, and that makes a whole lot of heat when there are poor contacts. Even then, it almost has to quit before you will find any problem.
Here is another thought that may be easier....get it to run, like fix the main relay problem...then while it is running spray the cap and plug wires with a dish soap and water mix (like you are washing dishes sort of mixture) then goose the throttle and see if it stumbles and misfires. You can usually hear the sparks snapping if it does misfire.
You recreated the humidity and moisture but now you controlled where it is. If it misfires then start replacing stuff or fixing the secondary leakage. Wire boots not well sealed to the cap?
------------------
I'm assuming that if the computer was going bad, it would throw out a CEL right ...or no.
Maybe, maybe not.
It depends.
If you were really going crazy, would you still believe you were sane?
------------------
Sorry it this sounds like ranting. I really wasn't trying to. I'm trying to cram several different things into one post.
Last edited by ezone; 12-25-2011 at 02:47 PM.
12-15-2011
#11
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I can imagine how frustrating it must be to try and tell some knucklehead how to work on their car.
Your advice has been really helpful though and much appreciated.
How about a good laugh to release some of that frustration ?
I went to start some of the testing that you suggested, and i had a hot wire touching some place it shouldn't have been.
I melted the wiring to the distributor
That's cool though, as i have a brand new one sitting here in front of me.
It looks as if the only wiring that fried was the wiring plugs and some around the coil. I'll have to check
It's raining today and i can't just push the car over to a covered area since i am in an apartment complex, so no more work for today.
12-15-2011
#12
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
I can imagine how frustrating it must be to try and tell some knucklehead how to work on their car.
I am NOT a teacher, even though many people have said they learn things from me.
I have no patience for teaching.
I'm scared to hear what they may have learned.
I melted the wiring to the distributor
Just looked at my previous post. This here number (%u03A9) was supposed to be an ohm symbol.
12-16-2011
#13
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So i plan to install the new distributor this weekend.
I'm pretty sure that i fried the present distributor because i had a wire crossed, but I just want to make absolute sure that i am doing the testing right.
When i am testing the main relay plug for voltage, I :
* Pull off the main relay from its connector ( the 'plug')
* I then turn my voltmeter to volts ( "DCV " ) and set it to either 20 or 200
* Touch the black negative probe to a piece of the body of the car that is metal.
* insert the red probe into the female end of the plug that held the main relay.
* turn the key and check the terminal plug for voltage
Sound about right ?
I would just really hate to fry the new distributor all over again.
I'm pretty sure that i fried the present distributor because i had a wire crossed, but I just want to make absolute sure that i am doing the testing right.
When i am testing the main relay plug for voltage, I :
* Pull off the main relay from its connector ( the 'plug')
* I then turn my voltmeter to volts ( "DCV " ) and set it to either 20 or 200
* Touch the black negative probe to a piece of the body of the car that is metal.
* insert the red probe into the female end of the plug that held the main relay.
* turn the key and check the terminal plug for voltage
Sound about right ?
I would just really hate to fry the new distributor all over again.
12-16-2011
#14
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
So i plan to install the new distributor this weekend.
I'm pretty sure that i fried the present distributor because i had a wire crossed, but I just want to make absolute sure that i am doing the testing right.
When i am testing the main relay plug for voltage, I :
* Pull off the main relay from its connector ( the 'plug')
NO. Test it LIVE.
IN circuit.
You cannot tell if the relay is turning the fuel pump on if the relay isn't in place and connected.
You cannot tell if the injectors got powered up if the relay is not connected.
* I then turn my voltmeter to volts ( "DCV " ) and set it to either 20 or 200
Checking for 12v? Use the 20v scale. 200v would be less accurate. Always use the scale nearest what you are testing, without going over it. I.E. don't use the 2v scale to check 12v. When in doubt, start high and work down.
* Touch the black negative probe to a piece of the body of the car that is metal.
Yes, but just clip the probe to a good metal ground and leave it there. Frees up one hand.
* insert the red probe into the female end of the plug that held the main relay.
NO. Use a paper clip or something of the like, and probe at the wire side of the plug. The main relay is connected. Test everything LIVE and IN circuit.
* turn the key and check the terminal plug for voltage
Sound about right ?
I would just really hate to fry the new distributor all over again.
Unplug the distributor. What exactly happened to fry it? Do you know what you did wrong? (I sure don't.)
I'm pretty sure that i fried the present distributor because i had a wire crossed, but I just want to make absolute sure that i am doing the testing right.
When i am testing the main relay plug for voltage, I :
* Pull off the main relay from its connector ( the 'plug')
NO. Test it LIVE.
IN circuit.
You cannot tell if the relay is turning the fuel pump on if the relay isn't in place and connected.
You cannot tell if the injectors got powered up if the relay is not connected.
* I then turn my voltmeter to volts ( "DCV " ) and set it to either 20 or 200
Checking for 12v? Use the 20v scale. 200v would be less accurate. Always use the scale nearest what you are testing, without going over it. I.E. don't use the 2v scale to check 12v. When in doubt, start high and work down.
* Touch the black negative probe to a piece of the body of the car that is metal.
Yes, but just clip the probe to a good metal ground and leave it there. Frees up one hand.
* insert the red probe into the female end of the plug that held the main relay.
NO. Use a paper clip or something of the like, and probe at the wire side of the plug. The main relay is connected. Test everything LIVE and IN circuit.
* turn the key and check the terminal plug for voltage
Sound about right ?
I would just really hate to fry the new distributor all over again.
Unplug the distributor. What exactly happened to fry it? Do you know what you did wrong? (I sure don't.)
12-16-2011
#15
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[QUOTE=ezone;4578205]
NO. Test it LIVE.
IN circuit.
You cannot tell if the relay is turning the fuel pump on if the relay isn't in place and connected.
You cannot tell if the injectors got powered up if the relay is not connected.
Thank you for bringing that up. It makes perfect sense when i think about it...that is if i understand what you mean.
Now bear with me here. I'm completely new to this, and we all have to start slow, so i have to ask just what you mean by test it "in circuit"
By testing "in circuit", I'm assuming that you mean making a small cut in the wire and exposing the copper wire, in which you touch your probe lead to ??
Or is that completely stupid ?
I googled it and came up with this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-circuit_test , which sounds like you want me to test the circuit board of the main relay or ...?
* I then turn my voltmeter to volts ( "DCV " ) and set it to either 20 or 200
Checking for 12v? Use the 20v scale. 200v would be less accurate. Always use the scale nearest what you are testing, without going over it. I.E. don't use the 2v scale to check 12v. When in doubt, start high and work down.
I learned something new today. Thanks !
* Touch the black negative probe to a piece of the body of the car that is metal.
Yes, but just clip the probe to a good metal ground and leave it there. Frees up one hand.
* insert the red probe into the female end of the plug that held the main relay.
NO. Use a paper clip or something of the like, and probe at the wire side of the plug. The main relay is connected. Test everything LIVE and IN circuit.
Sorry - stumped again. Above you say "The main relay is connected ", but if the main relay is connected, then how would you use the paper clip ? Where is the paper clip inserted into at ?
I know this is driving you nuts, but hopefully this post can keep others from asking you the same question over again in the future.
* turn the key and check the terminal plug for voltage
Sound about right ?
I would just really hate to fry the new distributor all over again.
Unplug the distributor. What exactly happened to fry it? Do you know what you did wrong? (I sure don't.)
I know exactly what i did wrong : a pure bonehead moment for sure. I had a couple of wires crossed that were loose within the distributor. I was in a hurry and the rain and drizzle wasn't helping. I wanted to report back with something, so i rushed it.
It appears as if only the wiring harnesses that got fried are on the new distributor.
NO. Test it LIVE.
IN circuit.
You cannot tell if the relay is turning the fuel pump on if the relay isn't in place and connected.
You cannot tell if the injectors got powered up if the relay is not connected.
Thank you for bringing that up. It makes perfect sense when i think about it...that is if i understand what you mean.
Now bear with me here. I'm completely new to this, and we all have to start slow, so i have to ask just what you mean by test it "in circuit"
By testing "in circuit", I'm assuming that you mean making a small cut in the wire and exposing the copper wire, in which you touch your probe lead to ??
Or is that completely stupid ?
I googled it and came up with this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-circuit_test , which sounds like you want me to test the circuit board of the main relay or ...?
* I then turn my voltmeter to volts ( "DCV " ) and set it to either 20 or 200
Checking for 12v? Use the 20v scale. 200v would be less accurate. Always use the scale nearest what you are testing, without going over it. I.E. don't use the 2v scale to check 12v. When in doubt, start high and work down.
I learned something new today. Thanks !
* Touch the black negative probe to a piece of the body of the car that is metal.
Yes, but just clip the probe to a good metal ground and leave it there. Frees up one hand.
* insert the red probe into the female end of the plug that held the main relay.
NO. Use a paper clip or something of the like, and probe at the wire side of the plug. The main relay is connected. Test everything LIVE and IN circuit.
Sorry - stumped again. Above you say "The main relay is connected ", but if the main relay is connected, then how would you use the paper clip ? Where is the paper clip inserted into at ?
I know this is driving you nuts, but hopefully this post can keep others from asking you the same question over again in the future.
* turn the key and check the terminal plug for voltage
Sound about right ?
I would just really hate to fry the new distributor all over again.
Unplug the distributor. What exactly happened to fry it? Do you know what you did wrong? (I sure don't.)
I know exactly what i did wrong : a pure bonehead moment for sure. I had a couple of wires crossed that were loose within the distributor. I was in a hurry and the rain and drizzle wasn't helping. I wanted to report back with something, so i rushed it.
It appears as if only the wiring harnesses that got fried are on the new distributor.
12-16-2011
#16
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
Now bear with me here. I'm completely new to this, and we all have to start slow, so i have to ask just what you mean by test it "in circuit"
You WANT the relay in the circuit. You WANT the circuit live and powered up. You are checking for power (voltage). You need to make sure power is not only getting TO the relay, you check that sufficient voltage is being passed THROUGH the relay contacts when it is activated, and there is no voltage drop through the contacts of the relay.
Think of a light switch with bad contacts that make the bulb only half bright when you turn it on. You would measure full voltage into the switch, but only half of the voltage coming out of the other side of the switch. If you removed the bulb from the socket and tested for voltage there, it would show full voltage because the load is removed. But the switch cannot carry the amperage that it takes to operate the bulb. The bad contacts created an artificial load, and therefore a voltage drop before the power got to the bulb. Live testing--voltage--in circuit, finds where the problem lies. Ohm testing won't find it.
There is far more to it than that though.
Now...
Terminal 3 is ground (blk)
You want to make sure the ground wire for the relay can carry whatever load is necessary to operate the relay.
Remember that voltage drop test I mentioned earlier? That is what you do here.
Meter black lead to chassis ground, Red lead to the ground wire in the relay socket. Meter reads 0.00 volts right now. Activate the relay (crank the engine or whatever it takes).
If there is any significant rise in voltage measured on that ground wire when the relay is activated, then there is a problem. I would guess that more than .25v is significant here.
In this case, (to me), in circuit means taking measurements with all components connected.
Live means with power connected (do not disconnect the battery, all fuses in place, etc.) All components are operable. Test while they are operating.
By testing "in circuit", I'm assuming that you mean making a small cut in the wire and exposing the copper wire, in which you touch your probe lead to ??
No. Never. Do not chop into any wires. Under the dash and interior wiring isn't a huge problem since it is relatively protected from the elements and most connectors aren't sealed (except in critical areas like some airbag components), but when wiring is outside in the weather (engine compartment, under the car, etc.) you are setting yourself up for corrosion to begin eating the copper wire inside the insulation. Huge headache in a short time.
Back probe: Literally, it means to probe (test) from the back of the connector.
Look at the end of a wire harness connector, like the one for the main relay. One side (front) is where the connector plugs into the relay. The other side (back) is where the wires enter the connector. Look closer and you see the backside of the terminals that are crimped to each wire.
Unfold a paper clip and slide it into the back of the connector where the wire goes in until it makes contact with the metal terminal. Then clip on your lead from your meter and you will be able to measure the values at each wire.
You can also use straight pin, T pin, hat pin, another wire, etc. to make contact.
It is a METHOD. How, when, and what is used varies with whatever needs to be tested.
Using straight pins is handy when testing in a sealed connector. NEVER pierce wire insulation (a general rule). You would slide the pin alongside the wire, through the hole in the rubber seal that the wire goes through, into the connector body until it contacts the crimped terminal.
Or is that completely stupid ?
Uninformed maybe.
I googled it and came up with this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-circuit_test , which sounds like you want me to test the circuit board of the main relay or ...?
You read the article looking for a literal answer. You aren't understanding the intent of the method.
Forget that for now.
---------------------------------
* I then turn my voltmeter to volts ( "DCV " ) and set it to either 20 or 200
Checking for 12v? Use the 20v scale. 200v would be less accurate. Always use the scale nearest what you are testing, without going over it. I.E. don't use the 2v scale to check 12v. When in doubt, start high and work down.
I learned something new today. Thanks !
Cool, I did something worthwhile.
--------------------------------
Sorry - stumped again. Above you say "The main relay is connected ", but if the main relay is connected, then how would you use the paper clip ? Where is the paper clip inserted into at ?
See the above "Backprobe" answer.
I know this is driving you nuts, but hopefully this post can keep others from asking you the same question over again in the future.
Like I said, I am NOT a teacher. I didn't even consider what your abilities might have been when I started in this thread. I guess I was thinking and typing answers like I was talking to another pro, and you aren't one. Sorry.I have a very difficult time explaining things from scratch. This is like having to explain how a clock works before I can tell you what time it is.-----------------------------
I know exactly what i did wrong : a pure bonehead moment for sure. I had a couple of wires crossed that were loose within the distributor.
Ok, I think I can picture which ones....the 2 that connect to the coil. One was touching the aluminum housing or a screw...Right?
------------------------------
I was in a hurry and the rain and drizzle wasn't helping. I wanted to report back with something, so i rushed it.
*Facepalm* Rushing usually turns out bad, especially if you don't know what you are doing in the first place. Take your time.
/Not proofread.
12-17-2011
#17
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It's always something simple and stupid isn't it ?
Turns out the problem is that the main relay connectorhas a short.
All the wiring is fine without cracks or bends. Nothing out of the ordinary.
What a bitch !
Thanks for the help guys ! Now I either have to find a new wiring harness at a junk yard or try and fix the one in here now. Any suggestions ?
Turns out the problem is that the main relay connectorhas a short.
All the wiring is fine without cracks or bends. Nothing out of the ordinary.
What a bitch !
Thanks for the help guys ! Now I either have to find a new wiring harness at a junk yard or try and fix the one in here now. Any suggestions ?
12-17-2011
#18
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At the very start of all of this I had wiggled the main relay connector and nothing seemed to happen. I would wiggle it and turn the key and it never seemed to do anything.
It seems the short is pretty touchy. You have to hold it just right for it to work.
I was testing the main relay connector for voltage from the back side and when i inserted my blade connector into the relay connector wiring, it pushed the wire over and it seemed to make contact. i heard the fuel pump kick on and then the car fired right up.
Oh well. I personally installed a new fuel pump, new relay and a completely new distributor. I tested the ignition and ran other tests and i must admit it was actually kind of fun. Before all of this, i would have taken the car into a shop to even have something simple like the distributor cap replaced. I feel so much more confident that i can do this stuff now and i feel more "in tune" with my car as well. ( that sounds a little bit screwy right ? )
I just hope that this is indeed the problem ! Thanks guys !
I'm still curious though why in the hell would this shorting problem occur only when there was a tiny bit of humidity ???
It seems the short is pretty touchy. You have to hold it just right for it to work.
I was testing the main relay connector for voltage from the back side and when i inserted my blade connector into the relay connector wiring, it pushed the wire over and it seemed to make contact. i heard the fuel pump kick on and then the car fired right up.
Oh well. I personally installed a new fuel pump, new relay and a completely new distributor. I tested the ignition and ran other tests and i must admit it was actually kind of fun. Before all of this, i would have taken the car into a shop to even have something simple like the distributor cap replaced. I feel so much more confident that i can do this stuff now and i feel more "in tune" with my car as well. ( that sounds a little bit screwy right ?
) I just hope that this is indeed the problem ! Thanks guys !
I'm still curious though why in the hell would this shorting problem occur only when there was a tiny bit of humidity ???
12-17-2011
#19
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
I repair this kind of stuff. If I can't repair what is already there, I splice. I save old harnesses from other work just for the connectors, terminals, and wiring.
Oh well. I personally installed a new fuel pump, new relay and a completely new distributor. I tested the ignition and ran other tests and i must admit it was actually kind of fun. Before all of this, i would have taken the car into a shop to even have something simple like the distributor cap replaced. I feel so much more confident that i can do this stuff now and i feel more "in tune" with my car as well. ( that sounds a little bit screwy right ? )
)
Imagine what you would pay for a shop to randomly guess at all these same repairs, without finding your wiring problem. Anyone with a shoebox full of tools can replace parts.
You can guess what I think about shops that somehow survive doing just that.
Electrical work seems like it is the "final frontier" of automotive repair. A good majority of mechanics just don't comprehend fundamentals of electricity. Modern electronics just compounds that issue.
I make good money solving problems that others can't.
I only have your descriptions to work with. I may have noticed other important clues and taken a different approach had I been there to see it myself.
I just hope that this is indeed the problem ! Thanks guys !
I'm still curious though why in the hell would this shorting problem occur only when there was a tiny bit of humidity ???
12-18-2011
#20
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Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
humidity and broken wires does not go too well together - loss of current
12-19-2011
#21
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It rained today. The car won't start.
It almost seems like the problem is in the ignition wiring, because yesterday it wouldn't start and would just rev, but if I turned the key to II and held it there for a second the pump would kick on and the car would start and run fine.
This morning with the rain, holding the key for a second at II did nothing
Also my tailights side lights and dash lights are now dead, so its something fishy in the steering column.
It almost seems like the problem is in the ignition wiring, because yesterday it wouldn't start and would just rev, but if I turned the key to II and held it there for a second the pump would kick on and the car would start and run fine.
This morning with the rain, holding the key for a second at II did nothing
Also my tailights side lights and dash lights are now dead, so its something fishy in the steering column.
12-19-2011
#22
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
Your terminology is killing me here. Contradictory terms.
I would have a wiring diagram and a test light. Check fuses with the test light, then check wiring at the headlight switch connector, with the switch connected.
Use the wiring diagram as your road map.
Get the wiring diagram and your tester. Revisit the main relay and test for what is MISSING (powers and ground) when the pump doesn't run and the engine won't start. If the relay isn't activating the pump, figure out why, determine what is missing.
Once you figure out what is missing at the relay, the wiring diagram can lead you to its source...check there next.
You have to diagnose while the problem is present.
Also my tailights side lights and dash lights are now dead, so its something fishy in the steering column
Use the wiring diagram as your road map.
if I turned the key to II and held it there for a second the pump would kick on and the car would start and run fine.
Once you figure out what is missing at the relay, the wiring diagram can lead you to its source...check there next.
You have to diagnose while the problem is present.
12-24-2011
#23
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Yes !! I had to laugh at that myself ! Kind of like a " hot water heater " ( if the water is hot, why would it need to be heated ?? )
So I took a short break from all of this, and took a couple of short videos of the ignition switch.
Based on what you see here, would you say that the cylinder is worn out, or that the problem lies in the wiring further downline ( or is it a combination of the two )
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Vgn4M1N9Y&feature=context&context=C3e06d 56ADOEgsToPDskKPxnamKZLXPiye_G--1Fbo[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRtfnAthfHI&context=C3e06d56ADOEgsToPDskKP xnamKZLXPiye_G--1Fbo[/YOUTUBE]
So I took a short break from all of this, and took a couple of short videos of the ignition switch.
Based on what you see here, would you say that the cylinder is worn out, or that the problem lies in the wiring further downline ( or is it a combination of the two )
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Vgn4M1N9Y&feature=context&context=C3e06d 56ADOEgsToPDskKPxnamKZLXPiye_G--1Fbo[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRtfnAthfHI&context=C3e06d56ADOEgsToPDskKP xnamKZLXPiye_G--1Fbo[/YOUTUBE]
12-24-2011
#24
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
1st vid, the key turns. What's the problem?
2nd vid, your ignition switch is missing from the steering column lock housing. No wonder it won't run! DUH
Seriously? Quit jacking with the key. That isn't the problem. If you couldn't turn the key at all, that would be a problem by itself.
2nd vid, your ignition switch is missing from the steering column lock housing. No wonder it won't run! DUH
Seriously? Quit jacking with the key. That isn't the problem. If you couldn't turn the key at all, that would be a problem by itself.
Last edited by ezone; 12-24-2011 at 07:08 PM.
12-24-2011
#25
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
You can use a screwdriver in the ignition switch to start the car now.
Actually, look at the wiring on the back of the switch, see if it has melted solder out, like this one:
This is really bad, most don't get this bad. This melted because of bad contacts inside the switch.
Actually, look at the wiring on the back of the switch, see if it has melted solder out, like this one:
This is really bad, most don't get this bad. This melted because of bad contacts inside the switch.
12-25-2011
#26
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
12-25-2011
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You can use a screwdriver in the ignition switch to start the car now.
Actually, look at the wiring on the back of the switch, see if it has melted solder out, like this one:
This is really bad, most don't get this bad. This melted because of bad contacts inside the switch.
Actually, look at the wiring on the back of the switch, see if it has melted solder out, like this one:
This is really bad, most don't get this bad. This melted because of bad contacts inside the switch.
So If I understand right, you are saying that the problem lies in the wiring and not in the cylinder ?
I ask because i showed the video to a guy ( he works on Harleys, but mechanics is mechanics right ?? ) that said that it looks like the cylinder is shot.
He says it even sounded odd and shouldn't make the clicking sounds as i turn the key. He made a comment about how loose that it was. This is why i'm jiggling the key in the video ( to show how much play it has .)
I had another guy tell me it was the ignition cylinder because i used to drive with a wad of keys. He said it destroys the inside of the ignition switches.
Im hoping its just the wiring. That could save me a lot of money !
12-25-2011
#28
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I suspect a big culprit in my problem is the fact that USED TO leave my windows down around 1/4 " in the summer time.
I live in Texas and we have plenty of days where the inside of the car will be 120* +.
I try and run out and close the windows when it rains, but there are some days that i'm too late.
Rain inside the steering column is not good !
Besides this, I haven't a clue as to what would cause a short / break in my wiring.
I live in Texas and we have plenty of days where the inside of the car will be 120* +.
I try and run out and close the windows when it rains, but there are some days that i'm too late.
Rain inside the steering column is not good !
Besides this, I haven't a clue as to what would cause a short / break in my wiring.
12-25-2011
#29
If you think a good mechanic is expensive, try hiring a bad one
Re: '92 Civic won't start when it's humid
The key turns. So what if the key can jiggle? It is old, the key and tumblers have wear.
They all click and klunk, that part is normal. It is the detents in the lock housing, and the column lock, and the beeper switch linkage/mechanism. All normal. You have to push the key inward to get it turned to the lock position and pull the key out. Still normal. A new unit will be very similar.
A heavy keyring can wear the key and cylinder, sure.
Not the switch, unless somehow the weight of the keyring could turn the key so it had the switch caught somewhere between I and II positions. I seriously doubt it.
None of this has anything to do with the electrical switch being bad. (In most newer cars the switch is available separately...Doesn't look like that is true for yours, at least through Honda.)
The car is HOW old? The switch wore out, just like the lock and a whole bunch of other stuff on the car.
No idea if leaving windows open would have anything to do with your relay wire failure; I can't see it causing an ignition switch to fail since they just go bad anyway (was it missing the plastic column covers?), but I can see wiring in low areas getting corroded if the carpets got drenched (I have dealt with flood cars too). You should smell mildew if that were the case...at least that's what happens up here when interiors get drenched and left alone.
I would tend to think that if open windows let a little water in only once in a while, then having them open would also let the moisture bake out in the hot sun too. I guess it just depends....
I'm glad I didn't hit the submit button right away. I just checked the Honda parts catalog, it looks like they want you to buy the entire mess just to get the electrical switch portion, that would mean a new key, cylinder, column lock, and switch as a complete unit.... I guess that would solve both issues, huh.
Same catalog pic as what I have is here: http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...INATION+SWITCH
I just checked Kragens/Oreillys site, a bit higher than from Majestic. Autozone has one dirt cheap, if it is right for your car. You better look up your own car since I guessed at a few things.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...90356_0_0_1277
They all click and klunk, that part is normal. It is the detents in the lock housing, and the column lock, and the beeper switch linkage/mechanism. All normal. You have to push the key inward to get it turned to the lock position and pull the key out. Still normal. A new unit will be very similar.
A heavy keyring can wear the key and cylinder, sure.
Not the switch, unless somehow the weight of the keyring could turn the key so it had the switch caught somewhere between I and II positions. I seriously doubt it.
None of this has anything to do with the electrical switch being bad. (In most newer cars the switch is available separately...Doesn't look like that is true for yours, at least through Honda.)
The car is HOW old? The switch wore out, just like the lock and a whole bunch of other stuff on the car.
No idea if leaving windows open would have anything to do with your relay wire failure; I can't see it causing an ignition switch to fail since they just go bad anyway (was it missing the plastic column covers?), but I can see wiring in low areas getting corroded if the carpets got drenched (I have dealt with flood cars too). You should smell mildew if that were the case...at least that's what happens up here when interiors get drenched and left alone.
I would tend to think that if open windows let a little water in only once in a while, then having them open would also let the moisture bake out in the hot sun too. I guess it just depends....
I'm glad I didn't hit the submit button right away. I just checked the Honda parts catalog, it looks like they want you to buy the entire mess just to get the electrical switch portion, that would mean a new key, cylinder, column lock, and switch as a complete unit.... I guess that would solve both issues, huh.
Same catalog pic as what I have is here: http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...INATION+SWITCH
I just checked Kragens/Oreillys site, a bit higher than from Majestic. Autozone has one dirt cheap, if it is right for your car. You better look up your own car since I guessed at a few things.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...90356_0_0_1277
12-26-2011
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I think I might go ahead and order that ignition switch you mentioned.
I was going to go to a junkyard and purchase one there, but I like the idea of having a brand new part for pretty much what the 'yard will sell me a used one.
I just hope it fixes the problem and its not ten different things all combined into seemingly one problem.
Oh ...and FOUR HUNDRED BUCKS from the dealer ? Ha !! They really like to milk that money don't they ?
I was going to go to a junkyard and purchase one there, but I like the idea of having a brand new part for pretty much what the 'yard will sell me a used one.
I just hope it fixes the problem and its not ten different things all combined into seemingly one problem.
Oh ...and FOUR HUNDRED BUCKS from the dealer ? Ha !! They really like to milk that money don't they ?
Last edited by CdXa; 12-26-2011 at 08:04 PM.
