I.C.E. & ElectricalPost all your I.C.E. (In Car Entertainment) and wiring questions here. (Audio, video etc.)
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hi this question is for all those who know about audio stuff.
i'm planning on getting a 12'' JL Audio W6 sub (one only) which RMS runs 250 watts, and one mono JL Audio 500/1 channel amp.
my question is, will i need a capacitor for my car??? i know Honda alternators arent the best in the world, so will my lights be dimming out whenever the bass hits. thanks
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1/2 a farad (.5 farad) wont kill u, its good up to 500 watts. If you notice your lights dim when you BUMP IT, not turn it on, BUT BUMP IT, then you can get one. Ebay is hella cheap, im running 1400 watts so i got a digital capacitor (1.5 farads=1500watts) for like 90 bucks shipped. I just went for a digital one more for show, kinda flashy, but a regular one would do. Should'nt cost more than like half that price. BTW, its 500watts/.5 farads. If you're gonna run more just see how many watts ur running and figure it out that way.
__________________ 2001 "Green Demon" Civic LX--back to stock, just an intake now
2004 Dodge Ram "Rumble Bee" #501
Last edited by GreenNVicious; 07-24-2003 at 02:13 AM.
btw, all capacitors are the same. dont pay more $$ for brand names like rockford or whatever, its ALL the same thing regardless what people say. the only difference would be digital and regular, digital just has like a digital reading to show you its working and some digital caps have like a neon or something built in or something, just flashy like i said.
__________________ 2001 "Green Demon" Civic LX--back to stock, just an intake now
2004 Dodge Ram "Rumble Bee" #501
ive run well over 2 kW rms, another member on here has gotten near the 3kW mark on stock electricals without touching capacitors.
technically speaking, a capacitor will only help slight transient response and dimming. will it save yoru car from breaking down? absolutely not. will it save your alternator? absolutely not will it save your battery? absolutely not
you could run 8000 rms on the stock electrical if you didnt crank it, or you could ruin stock electricals with 1000 rms if you leave it on max 24/7. its all based on you and your listening.
capacitors, extra batteries, are not necessary. capacitors discharge their stored power in 1/100th of a second, therefore if youre listening to hip hop, or techno, your capacitor has now become another source for drawing power on your electrical system.
Originally posted by LudlamTheory ive run well over 2 kW rms, another member on here has gotten near the 3kW mark on stock electricals without touching capacitors.
technically speaking, a capacitor will only help slight transient response and dimming. will it save yoru car from breaking down? absolutely not. will it save your alternator? absolutely not will it save your battery? absolutely not
you could run 8000 rms on the stock electrical if you didnt crank it, or you could ruin stock electricals with 1000 rms if you leave it on max 24/7. its all based on you and your listening.
capacitors, extra batteries, are not necessary. capacitors discharge their stored power in 1/100th of a second, therefore if youre listening to hip hop, or techno, your capacitor has now become another source for drawing power on your electrical system.
you my friend are just plain f-n dumb to say what you just did
why have a system thats 2000-3000 watts and not turn it up, and you DO need a cap, there are also diff types of caps,
yee. WTF? Anyways. Do you need one? No. Should you get one? Yes. I have a 1 farad in my car and it definately helps keep consistant power. Plus I'm pretty sure it helps the alternator since the power is drawing from the CAP as it's needed, instead of constantly being fed from the battery . Anyways. any system that I've seen that are halfway decent have a cap on them. I've heard some cheap setups without a cap sound pretty good though..
__________________ - Stay in front, that way you don't have to worry about passing anyone.
Originally posted by xtiszx you my friend are just plain f-n dumb to say what you just did
why have a system thats 2000-3000 watts and not turn it up, and you DO need a cap, there are also diff types of caps,
learn you audio b4 u go posting that crap
to my knowledge, there are only polarized and nonpolarized capacitors. would you like to tell me what the usages of polarized capacitors are?
better yet, would you like to tell me what capacitance is?
or even better, tell me WHY you need a capacitor?
__________________ the revolution is over, and so as to not inconvenience anyone, nothing has been changed.
thank you.
Originally posted by pheaton yee. WTF? Anyways. Do you need one? No. Should you get one? Yes. I have a 1 farad in my car and it definately helps keep consistant power. Plus I'm pretty sure it helps the alternator since the power is drawing from the CAP as it's needed, instead of constantly being fed from the battery . Anyways. any system that I've seen that are halfway decent have a cap on them. I've heard some cheap setups without a cap sound pretty good though..
a capacitor cannot holde charge for more than a fraction of a second, im talkin smaller than 1/100th of a second. youre right as to the lack of draw from the battery, but youre only taking away draw from the battery for 1/100th of a second.
heres the fun part. lets say youre listening to something with a nice long hard bass drop: after the first 1/100th when your caps are discharged, guess what they do? they try to recharge themselves, and guess where from? the battery. now youve not only got an amp drawing power from your battery, but also a capacitor.
__________________ the revolution is over, and so as to not inconvenience anyone, nothing has been changed.
thank you.
Originally posted by xtiszx you my friend are just plain f-n dumb to say what you just did
why have a system thats 2000-3000 watts and not turn it up, and you DO need a cap, there are also diff types of caps,
learn you audio b4 u go posting that crap
I am running approx. 1800 watts, and guess what....if I take my cap out, my lights dim a little bit more. And they still dim a ton with it. It really is absolutely pointless, it's just one more thing the alt. has to charge. Heres an experiment to show you how little a cap does. Disconnect your amp power from the battery, and leave the cap hooked up. Now turn the car on and try to play your stereo. The amp will click on and then click off; why? Because you just drained your cap in less than a second. Now think about it this way. You just drained your cap every time your bass hit, so in between charging the cap, you have to use the battery. If you didn't have a cap, you would use the battery all the time instead of constantly discharging and charging the cap. Less load on the alternator, means it can focus all it's power on trying to keep the battery fully charged.
So in the end, if you have 100 bucks to waste on nothing, buy a cap. But you are better off saving it.
Originally posted by xtiszx you my friend are just plain f-n dumb to say what you just did
friend? what a jackass comment to make! what did he say to deserve this, other than factual truth that follows the laws of physics? nothing!
Quote:
why have a system thats 2000-3000 watts and not turn it up, and you DO need a cap, there are also diff types of caps,
I like headroom, thats why. get a solid strong signal, your equipment doesnt have to run hard, and i cna push my speakers to their limits without pushing the equipment farther than it really really can.
another good reason is that it just plain HURTS to listen to loud music for very long with 3 killowatts!
Quote:
learn you audio b4 u go posting that crap
try asking ludlam what installer school he went to.
try asking some of the dozens and dozens of people he has helped here on this forum.
or you can PM mowhawkboom, the ICE moderator before ludlamtheory. Naturally, he will tell you the exact same thing ludlam and I say.
theres a reason he is the mod in ICE.... if you believe you can do a better job, that youve "learned you audio" better perhaps you should send a couple PM's to the mods here....
what Ludlamtheory said is quite correct. the only thing a capacitor does is potentially cure headlight dimming. If dimming doesn't bother you, theres no reason to waste money on one.
but dont take my word for it. Don't take ludlamtheories word for it. dont take SQcivics word for it. Dont take kazells word for it, dont take DIZZLE's word for it, dont take Faint Realities word for it.
lets go to a more reliable source than any serious enthusiast, even more reliable than any reputable installer. lets go straight to one of the pioneers of caraudio, Richard Clark. you can read a full post abotu the functionality of capacitors here:
and if you still believe they are neccesary, that they really make a difference, then give RC a call, if you can prove it to him (because you cant, its not true) he will write you a check for $5000.
hahahahha, arrogance is what killed you xtiszx....
it seems like your the one lacking audio knowledge......
but i will leave this to the audio gods.......... i'm still in training
You see how Ludlam handled the flame...that's what I like to see on this site. I know Ludlam knows alot about audio from reading the audio forum, but he doesn't let that get to his head and start yelling back. All he did was explain his side and reasons for not needing a cap.
Caps may help dimming a small amount, but I've tested voltage at the battery w/ and w/out multiple caps and there is zero difference. It may help a quick bass hit a touch harder, but maybe not even that....
Save your money and put it towards a better amp / sub......
Oh, and beware of making yourself look like a COMPLETE Jack A$$.... especially in this forum....
A capacitor is a device that resists change in voltage. It STORES a charge. For our uses it will pass AC but not DC (while it is charging it will pass DC). Their value is expressed in Farads (or more commonly in microfarads). They have a working voltage (called DCWV) that must never be exceeded. They can be found in both polarized and nonpolarized versions. The most commonly used types are the electrolytic, mylar and poly (polypropylene, polystyrene, polyester). They are used primarily for filtration (in power supplies), noise suppression, and speaker crossovers.
For noise suppression, a capacitor is placed between the alternator, or component power lead, and ground. This will present an open circuit to the 12 volts DC once the cap is charged, but will provide a short circuit for the small AC “ripple”. Polarized electrolytics are most commonly used. They are much cheaper than the other types, especially in larger values. A minimum of 25 DCWV is needed for safe operation in a 12 volt system.
Another use for the capacitor is in speaker crossovers. Although they pass AC, their impedance is inversely proportional with frequency. Placed in series with a speaker, it forms a 6dB / octave high-pass filter. A nonpolarized capacitor must be used.
Electrolytic caps are the cheapest for their size. If using electrolytics for crossovers be sure that the DCWV is at least 100 volts for amplified systems. Using a cap with too small of a working voltage will usually cause the cap to explode. Mylar caps are a bit more expensive than electrolytics of the same value, but offer higher reliability and sonic improvement. Metalized film poly caps are very expensive, but offer the highest sonic quality in critical listening applications.
Total capacitance can be calculated from individual capacitances in parallel by adding each of the individual capacitances. The formula is below:
CT = C1 + C2 + C3 ... + Cn
Where CT is the total capacitance, C1 through Cn are the individual capacitances in parallel. And I know nothing about audio. Yea I only worked for mtx in AZ.
Stiffening capacitors can help your amplifiers deliver up to 50% more output on those demanding peak bass notes. Most automotive alternator/battery systems simply lack the ability to produce large amounts of instantaneous power. This is exactly the type of power that car audio amplifiers crave. Adding a stiffening capacitor to your system can add tremendous bass punch and improve transient response. One of the other benefits of stiffening capacitors is the ability to reduce line loss. Line loss is created by the power cable itself. Long runs of power cable associated with mounting amplifiers in automotive trunks creates line loss, especially during deep bass notes. Stiffening capacitors help maintain appropriate system voltages at the amplifier. This is why I feel you need one.
go to your cap, and take out your multimeter, which im sure you have if youre such an audio enthusiast. and take the voltage of your cap. now go get a screwdriver and short out the terminals, it wont do anything to your cap, but itll leave nasty marke on your screwdriver. take teh voltage, it should be 0. then plug your power and ground back into the capacitor without the resistor in line, it should be a big spark, but guess what, youre back up to full voltage instantly.
if you can prove it, then Richard Clark will give you $5000 right there. Believe me, a LOT of people have taken him up on that offer and yet a single person in years has ever been able to prove it.
Originally posted by xtiszx Stiffening capacitors can help your amplifiers deliver up to 50% more output on those demanding peak bass notes. Most automotive alternator/battery systems simply lack the ability to produce large amounts of instantaneous power. This is exactly the type of power that car audio amplifiers crave. Adding a stiffening capacitor to your system can add tremendous bass punch and improve transient response. One of the other benefits of stiffening capacitors is the ability to reduce line loss. Line loss is created by the power cable itself. Long runs of power cable associated with mounting amplifiers in automotive trunks creates line loss, especially during deep bass notes. Stiffening capacitors help maintain appropriate system voltages at the amplifier. This is why I feel you need one.
Originally posted by xtiszx A capacitor is a device that resists change in voltage. It STORES a charge. For our uses it will pass AC but not DC (while it is charging it will pass DC). Their value is expressed in Farads (or more commonly in microfarads). They have a working voltage (called DCWV) that must never be exceeded. They can be found in both polarized and nonpolarized versions. The most commonly used types are the electrolytic, mylar and poly (polypropylene, polystyrene, polyester). They are used primarily for filtration (in power supplies), noise suppression, and speaker crossovers.
For noise suppression, a capacitor is placed between the alternator, or component power lead, and ground. This will present an open circuit to the 12 volts DC once the cap is charged, but will provide a short circuit for the small AC “ripple”. Polarized electrolytics are most commonly used. They are much cheaper than the other types, especially in larger values. A minimum of 25 DCWV is needed for safe operation in a 12 volt system.
Another use for the capacitor is in speaker crossovers. Although they pass AC, their impedance is inversely proportional with frequency. Placed in series with a speaker, it forms a 6dB / octave high-pass filter. A nonpolarized capacitor must be used.
Electrolytic caps are the cheapest for their size. If using electrolytics for crossovers be sure that the DCWV is at least 100 volts for amplified systems. Using a cap with too small of a working voltage will usually cause the cap to explode. Mylar caps are a bit more expensive than electrolytics of the same value, but offer higher reliability and sonic improvement. Metalized film poly caps are very expensive, but offer the highest sonic quality in critical listening applications.
Total capacitance can be calculated from individual capacitances in parallel by adding each of the individual capacitances. The formula is below:
CT = C1 + C2 + C3 ... + Cn
Where CT is the total capacitance, C1 through Cn are the individual capacitances in parallel. And I know nothing about audio. Yea I only worked for mtx in AZ.
Do I need a Capacitor??? 
ludlam theory 
