penright

My daughter's car, so forgive me on not knowing Honda lingo.

Question:
1. How far does the tip of the fork move from a fully released clutch pedal to fully depressed? This one is moving about 3/4" to 1" at the tip.
2. Is that normal?
3. Should the clutch disengage with that much moment?
4. Does the pressure plate on these cars go bad so as not to disengage?

Details:
I went to her house and looked at the car. The clutch does not seem to be slipping. I was able to put it into first, depressing the clutch pedal, and crank the engine and it moved the car. Looking at the back of the master cylinder and around the salve I did not see any signs of leaking. The fluid level was closed to the minimum. If I have her just tap I could see movement on the fork. And as I said in the question, fully depressed moves about 1". There seems to be the normal play on a clutch so as not to wear out the throw-out-bearing. I would have suspected a master/slave cylinder if it was not for the movement of the fork. But then the fluid seems low, but there are no leaks. She has had the car for 2 or 3 years and the clutch system has not been touched. Not sure how it comes from the factory, the slave is not painted, and somewhat shiny, may have been replaced. In fact I would surprised if not, the car has 250,000.
If I need to provide more detail about the model, let me know.

[SOLVED] Bottom line, there was a spring that popped out, so the clutch had to be replaced. Read the whole post, but the synopses is here. https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ork-moves.html

ezone

Movement sounds about right, should be sufficient for release or at least slippage.

Likely guess: a spring has come apart in the center of the disc and is jammed, you would find something like the pic below. Pull trans out and inspect?

penright

Guess next googling, how too pull trans :-(

penright

Parts, I would assume, clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bushing, rear main seal, trans seal. Can always take back what we don't need.

How hard is the pilot and seals toswap if you are that far in?
Any special tools?

ezone

I assume this has the 1.8 engine, not a 2.0 (Si)?


Yes to these, and the pilot IS a bushing not a bearing on an 06.

Flywheel is not supposed to be resurfaced according to Honda. If anything is wrong, it is supposed to be replaced.


Need 2 quarts of Honda Manual Trans Fluid.
Need 2 pints of Honda Power Steering Fluid. Maybe 3. (Not for Si)


I probably wouldn't mess with the rear main unless someone wanted to pay the extra expense and/or it's leaking. But now is the time to do it anyway, if you are gonna do it.

What trans seal?

Replace the axle seals while it's out and easy?


There's a slide hammer special tool for the bushing and a driver for installation, and there are other special drivers for seals.

There's also hangers for holding the engine up, there's a jig for taking the subframe out on a trans jack, and some other stuff.

I suppose if you're handy you can improvise most of this.

ezone

Did the car make any unusual noises when or just before this happened, or would the driver have been oblivious to any warning signs?

penright

Sad to hear about the fly wheel.
Found this thread, it was a older and had a bearing. All that I read about Honda bearing having issues, is bearing and not bushing? As for the seals they are about 5-7 bucks apiece, is there not a seal for the front of the trans (input shaft)?

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ml#post2665902

ezone

That thread is about a 2003 car, a 7th gen. Different animal. It uses a pilot bearing.

2006-2011, (8th gen) uses a bushing. (A step backwards IMO.)


The seal for the input shaft of the trans is installed from within the trans case. You would have to split open the trans to replace it.

penright

I asked her, this is the response...

No signs at all. I was exiting the highway....I never heard it but music is always on.
I might add, she normally catches something not normal.

penright

Will what he said about using the floor jack to hold the engine work on a gen 8? If yes is there enough room to split the trans from the engine?

I am experience with gm w body cars. I have seen 2x4 and ratcheting straps, hold the engine, while the tyranny is pulled. :-)

ezone

Is this a 1.8 engine or 2.0?

Does the clutch pedal still feel normal? Pressure, travel, and all that?

From where I sit, I'd guess it's time to take it apart and see what's happened in there.
Plan on a clutch job and hope there isn't extra damage found.

HTH

penright

I can double check,, I think it's 1.8

That's the part that confused me, feel, travel all looks good. The fork moves good at the cylinder and my question if the ¾ to 1 inch movement at the fork was enough and from response, sound yes, just will not disengage.
She did say the symptom of not going into gear was immanent, sound like something broke, not worn.

ezone

You can improvise a lot.

Floor jack might work AFTER you get the subframe out of the way.
And the steering rack stays attached to the subframe


2x4s, build a skyhook over the engine compartment to hold the engine up with a chain?



Subframe pic, 8th gen








How to keep the subframe aligned---take it apart the right way and it should go right back together into the exact same spot.





Engine and trans will hang by the top 2 mounts while you remove the subframe.

Lower ball joints are great too, each one is attached to the lower control arm with 2 bolts and a nut. Gravy!
EDIT: Or 2 nuts and a bolt. Whatever.

penright

I found this, I think they are talking about a 8th gen.

(Part 1)
(Part 2)

I found this guy, it not a Honda but it gave me nightmares. :-)

Most of my experience with standards were in the late 70's and earlier. I don't think I ever had a clutch size on the input shaft. At the end looks like it was a failure of the splines on the clutch, but still did not look like fun.

ezone

First vid shows a K engine. Not the same, but similar. Some parts will apply to a 1.8 engine, others don't.

They pulled the bumper cover off? I don't.

penright

I trailer the car to my house last night (about 60 miles). Glad we did, there looks to be ice on the roads this morning. I am assuming the K is a vin destinations. I told her to write down the vin when she ordered the parts. I forgot to have her get the trans fluid, so I have at least on trip to the parts store. Now that I have to car I can verify the model. I am assuming there is a sticker that has the engine size and such.
That confused me, it did not look like they had to do that. Also showing the subframe bolts, then it does not look like they dropped it. In fact at one point after the trans is separated he says you can lower it on the subframe. [went back and listen again, he says all but these bolts] Anyway, I knew I was going to have to feel my way through this, I think between you, videos, and the DYI I have some idea of where I am going. Now to light the heater and get started. :-) Thanks all and happy New Year.

ezone

The engine letter is not in the VIN, it's stamped on the block.

An 06 Civic will have a 1.8 engine, (engine type "R" as stamped on the block, i.e. R18A1) unless it is an Si, which has a 2.0 "K" type engine, same engine family as the engine used in Accord, CRV, Element, and others.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_R_engine

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_K_engine

Hear me now, believe me later: Get the correct fluids from a Honda dealership.

I know, nobody is open on New Years day. I wouldn't trust most aftermarket fluids nor would I trust the idiots at the parts stores that tell you the fluid works on all cars.

It's amazing how much stuff can go wrong when the wrong fluids are dumped in. Power steering is a good example.

There should be an emissions sticker with the info. You may have to decipher it though.

Check the pictures in the wiki links above too.

The service info I checked earlier has the subframe being removed to get the trans out of the car.
I don't know if you can get around that.... If you see a way to do it that way, go for it and report if it worked or not!

I managed to do it once on an 01-05 Civic (a completely different car) without dropping the subframe -- just slid the trans back far enough to do work, but IDK if others would.

penright

Trying to remove the lower air box. The bolt that hold the front was missing. I have the both hose clamps (big and little) off. How does the rear remove? It looks like a pin.



BTW, I will respond to ezone latter, here is the emission tag. Looks like an R.

ezone

First pic, rubber donut stuffed over a steel pin. I sometimes spray some carb cleaner on the rubber to lube it, then pry upward to release.

2nd pic says 1.8L, so that's the R engine.

penright

ezone win's the prize. Don't have one, but you win anyway.
No this picture is not a copy of the one you posted.


Did do it without pulling the subframe. I have some details for future searchers, but for now need to finish putting the car back.

Question, were do we put the oil back in?

ezone

From what I've read this isn't an uncommon failure at high mileage.

Did you find the drain plug?

Fill plug is a 17mm hex next to the differential.

penright

On top below a bracket?
On the side, through fender well?
How do you know when full?
What the torque on axles nuts?
Is there a trick to get the driver side drive shaft in?

penright

I guessed from googling 181 foot pounds on the axle nuts, got driver side drive shaft in, basically buttoning back up, still not sure about putting fluid back in. If it the plug on the side, not enough room to put a funnel in. Any tricks?

ezone

Fill plug should be very similar to this as seen through the drivers wheelwell or from underneath. This pic is labeled as an Accord though.

Set car level, Fill until it runs out the hole.

Do not remove any other bolts or you can cause serious damage (if you pull the bolt that held the reverse idler shaft out, you're screwed)

penright

Ok I see it now, the one (red) I was looking at was this plug (yellow). Do you know what it is?

ezone

Yes!

Yes I do. It's an access to release a snap ring retainer from the outer bearing on the countershaft.
Don't touch that until it's time to take the trans apart.

HTH

penright

One last question, any trick to put the fluid in?

ezone

Set the bottle under the car and scream JUMP?


Funnel and long hose? Stuff a pipe into the end of that hose...

At work we use a squeeze bulb pump which kinda sucks but it does the job.

penright

Tried that with the the clutch, didn't work.


I got a small length of 3/8 fuel line that if it was about a foot longer it might work. I will wait for the daughter to get here with the "Genuine Honda" fluid. I like believing now rather than later. :-)


I have a old syrup bottle that I use to squirt wax detailing cars. I am hoping I can hold the rig, and she can apply the fluid.


I found this DYI
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/diy-h...id-change.html
It called the funnel the beer bong method

It did have this as an example of a pump. Not sure how good it would work.

Bottom, line I has hoping you had a magic way. The jump was close. :-)
I hope when I get to work Monday I can flesh out my experience for future reference. I live out in the country, no DSL. :-(

ezone

Use your Drill Sergeant voice




Got any hollow 1/4" threaded lamp rod?
Bendy straws? LOL
Get creative!

Yay




I didn't see a picture of a beer bong there, but beer bong sounds like what I had pictured in my head with the funnel and long hose.


See the cone shaped lids on these bottles here.....My fav cheapo driveway method was to trim the end of the cone, stuff a piece of hose down over the cone and turn the bottle upside down and squeeze hard. I could get fluid to go just about anywhere as long as the hose was long enough





No magic though.