Really confused about lowering
04-08-2011
#1
Sedans > Coupes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 173 
Really confused about lowering
I've done a lot of reading and I know that slamming my car will be very expensive, and since I'm a student, I'd have to put that off for now. But, every so often I see people who bought lowering springs, and they give the impression that they're only going to be installing those and nothing else along with them
I know that what you need depends on how low you go, but I can't find a guide on what to use at what level of drop. I keep seeing lowering springs on kijiji for 100$, and if that's all it took to make my Civic not look like a 4x4 anymore, then I'd be more than willing to throw them on, but I don't want to damage anything, and I want the suspension system to stay safe and reliable.
So what I'm asking is for a definitive guide on what needs to be replaced at what drop height, something like:
1 inch drop: replace springs
1.5 inch drop: replace springs, replace ______
2 inch drop: replace springs, camber kit, etc
If there's already a guide out there, I apologize, and please point me in the right direction.
I know that what you need depends on how low you go, but I can't find a guide on what to use at what level of drop. I keep seeing lowering springs on kijiji for 100$, and if that's all it took to make my Civic not look like a 4x4 anymore, then I'd be more than willing to throw them on, but I don't want to damage anything, and I want the suspension system to stay safe and reliable.
So what I'm asking is for a definitive guide on what needs to be replaced at what drop height, something like:
1 inch drop: replace springs
1.5 inch drop: replace springs, replace ______
2 inch drop: replace springs, camber kit, etc
If there's already a guide out there, I apologize, and please point me in the right direction.
04-08-2011
#2
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,790
Received 1,446 Likes
on
1,201 Posts
Rep Power: 338 
Re: Really confused about lowering
even 1" drop needs shocks - for my driving, i also needed rear camber kit - not required for average driver, though.
that's from another thread that i will not direct you (save you the troubles anyway...)
you can see some differences from stock to 1" - however, i plow joliette's roads...
that's from another thread that i will not direct you (save you the troubles anyway...)
you can see some differences from stock to 1" - however, i plow joliette's roads...
16"s at stock... they look kinda like cavaliers as well... odd looking...
even worse - like the older cars with 22" rims... jacked up...
my old 01 auto (did not have any choice - when i moved to US (no credit report, so no financing available...), there was a jap that had a car for sale and he accepted me paying in 10 payments... - was in an accident 1 week before i picked the car - T-bone..., so sold it, and i wanted a manual)
Now that i think about, i had these wheels since the prev car... I will need to retract the previous statement...
before lowering:
after - feels much better, firm, and composed (but stiff for many) - and not washed this day :P
no rear camber kit either - i would come to regret that much later... the springs settled and rear camber went -1.6... and understeer like a pig... squee, squeee every corner... rebuilt trans and new axles, motor mounts due to wheel spin... now rear camber, ditched the eibach sways and put stock front sway - (to be gone), F/R camber -1.5/-0.5 with humonguous rear progress sways
even worse - like the older cars with 22" rims... jacked up...
my old 01 auto (did not have any choice - when i moved to US (no credit report, so no financing available...), there was a jap that had a car for sale and he accepted me paying in 10 payments... - was in an accident 1 week before i picked the car - T-bone..., so sold it, and i wanted a manual)
Now that i think about, i had these wheels since the prev car... I will need to retract the previous statement...
before lowering:
after - feels much better, firm, and composed (but stiff for many) - and not washed this day :P
no rear camber kit either - i would come to regret that much later... the springs settled and rear camber went -1.6... and understeer like a pig... squee, squeee every corner... rebuilt trans and new axles, motor mounts due to wheel spin... now rear camber, ditched the eibach sways and put stock front sway - (to be gone), F/R camber -1.5/-0.5 with humonguous rear progress sways
Last edited by sdaidoji; 04-08-2011 at 09:03 PM.
04-08-2011
#4
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,790
Received 1,446 Likes
on
1,201 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Really confused about lowering
oui, mon ami!
I use the KYB AGX, but the most recommended (and the minimum level) are the tokiko blues for up to 1.7" drop.
Also, the stock components (will depend on the mileage or road conditions, or the driving style, or else) but they might need to be replaced or will soon fail as well) - darn, where was that list of things that will clunk after lowering that i posted? MelJ was in there, so maybe in 6th gen? nevermind, GB posted some of them a few posts down...
I use the KYB AGX, but the most recommended (and the minimum level) are the tokiko blues for up to 1.7" drop.
Also, the stock components (will depend on the mileage or road conditions, or the driving style, or else) but they might need to be replaced or will soon fail as well) - darn, where was that list of things that will clunk after lowering that i posted? MelJ was in there, so maybe in 6th gen? nevermind, GB posted some of them a few posts down...
Last edited by sdaidoji; 04-08-2011 at 09:42 PM.
04-08-2011
#5
Sedans > Coupes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 173 Re: Really confused about lowering
Wow 1 inch is hardly noticeable, but maybe it's just the angle. As a fellow Quebecer, I understand exactly what you mean about plowing some roads. I live south east of Montreal and I've plowed my lonely street many times.
I'll definitely want to go 1.5 inches then.
ps, what are coilovers and why are they so friggen expensive?
I'll definitely want to go 1.5 inches then.
ps, what are coilovers and why are they so friggen expensive?
04-08-2011
#6
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,790
Received 1,446 Likes
on
1,201 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Really confused about lowering
not quite. and the stiffness is most noticeable
also, note that i will be editing the replies, so remember to re-read my posts later as more info will get in them
I will get to ur coilover Q soon
here:
coilovers will include springs, shocks and the sleeves, and they are "supposedly" designed to work together (some are just an off-the-shelf get together parts...), so naturally they will be more expensive. Some are specifically designed for the car model, some are acceptable, some are just... poorly selected parts...
they will also allow for height adjustment (naturally it will change the alignment everytime you change height... so recommend camber kits in the rear)
also, note that i will be editing the replies, so remember to re-read my posts later
as more info will get in themI will get to ur coilover Q soon
here:
coilovers will include springs, shocks and the sleeves, and they are "supposedly" designed to work together (some are just an off-the-shelf get together parts...), so naturally they will be more expensive. Some are specifically designed for the car model, some are acceptable, some are just... poorly selected parts...
they will also allow for height adjustment (naturally it will change the alignment everytime you change height... so recommend camber kits in the rear)
Last edited by sdaidoji; 04-08-2011 at 09:47 PM.
04-08-2011
#7
Sedans > Coupes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 173 Re: Really confused about lowering
Noticed the first edit but not the second lol. I really want a stiffer ride to be honest. When I drove my friends lowered STI I loved it and how I felt every bump in the road.
In your last edit you wrote, "but the least recommended are the tokiko blues for up to 1.7" drop."
Did you mean something other than "least" cause I've seen the recommended more than anything else.
So, for a ~1.5 inch drop, I'd need new shocks, springs and maybe a camber kit? Anything else?
In your last edit you wrote, "but the least recommended are the tokiko blues for up to 1.7" drop."
Did you mean something other than "least" cause I've seen the recommended more than anything else.
So, for a ~1.5 inch drop, I'd need new shocks, springs and maybe a camber kit? Anything else?
04-08-2011
#8
Premium Member
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (95)
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: NV
Age: 43
Posts: 51,241
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes
on
13 Posts
Rep Power: 787 Re: Really confused about lowering
i cant imagine anything more than a 1 inch drop on the street. and i had to work hard to maintain that kind of lowering. new shocks, new ES lca bushings, sway bar bushings and endlinks, camber kit and alignments, and tires (you will want to drive more aggressively and wear them out faster). and i still had issues like scraping my front lip and denting my exhaust midpipe and scraping the tip. its quite a bit firmer and stiffer compared to stock and not for everyone. one inch is noticable as far as looks, but not if you only saw the car sitting by itself. sometimes it almost looks stock but not quite.
04-08-2011
#9
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,790
Received 1,446 Likes
on
1,201 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Really confused about lowering
Gb beat me to it... so many new threads everyday that is hard to locate them...
I would also add the strut top mounts and tie-rod ends as noise-making just after installing the lowering springs that are most common, plus the engine mounts that might fail...
to add, i would mention:
if camber and toe are correctly set, the tire wear will not be negatively impacted in normal driving.
I however need more camber than normal to do my autoX and track days, so i compensate with driving agressively in there to actually wear the inside down when i am not in racing mode
agree completely
corrected above
camber kit might be required for tire inside wear or else you will need to corner very fast (to wear the outside )
I need them to balance the car (more towards oversteer/neutral)
I would also add the strut top mounts and tie-rod ends as noise-making just after installing the lowering springs that are most common, plus the engine mounts that might fail...
to add, i would mention:
I however need more camber than normal to do my autoX and track days, so i compensate with driving agressively in there to actually wear the inside down when i am not in racing mode
)I need them to balance the car (more towards oversteer/neutral)
Last edited by sdaidoji; 04-08-2011 at 09:49 PM.
04-08-2011
#10
Sedans > Coupes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 173 Re: Really confused about lowering
Yeah if I look, I can see the 1 inch difference in the pictures but if I'm going to spend money on this, I know I'll regret not going a bit lower than 1 inch.
Man, every time you guys mention a new part, I have to do some Googling, it's so hard to keep up lol. Just learned what a sway bar is and now I'm looking up lower control arm.
edit: looking up strut top mounts too lol
Man, every time you guys mention a new part, I have to do some Googling, it's so hard to keep up lol. Just learned what a sway bar is and now I'm looking up lower control arm.
edit: looking up strut top mounts too lol
04-08-2011
#11
Live for the Twisties
Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 8,580
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes
on
5 Posts
Rep Power: 260 Re: Really confused about lowering
At 1.5 inches you can get away with just changing the struts and springs, I'm a student too so I can sympathise with needing to save on cost. A camber kit would be a good idea, but I wouldn't say it's necessary until you go lower than 1.5 inches.
04-08-2011
#12
Sedans > Coupes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 173 Re: Really confused about lowering
I'm a bit confused about what you mean MindBomber. Change the whole strut? Our suspension is the macpherson strut, wouldn't that mean changing everything? Or do you mean what holds the spring only?
04-08-2011
#13
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,790
Received 1,446 Likes
on
1,201 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Really confused about lowering
mcpherson is called strut 'cos it is "structural" as in it is actually part of what holds the suspension together.
Semantically and technically, if you remove the shocks/dampers in a doublewishbone suspension, you do not need to align it because the shock/damper is not actually a part of what holds the suspension together - i can't locate the thread i posted the differences of the 2 types... darn... too many new worthless threads that cluster the search function...)
Ahhh, found it!
our front suspension is Macpherson type - the camber changes across the suspension travel is close to negligible - dropping the car is not supposed to cause any visible changes - when you lift, the suspension at full droop will have a somewhat visible change to positive, but that's a lot of travel.
Not sure if taking to alignment will solve, but at the least they can try.
Also, the front camber kit for our cars is just an eccentric bolt. Rears are multi-link type designed to gain a lot of negative camber (to understeer the car in the limit - good for average driver).
Anywa, if you going to align, do both first.
The description of the car behaviour indicates more to an extreme toe than camber effects.
here - some history - if you had a previous generation - they had the double wishbone - could be designed with huge camber gains.
Ours are macpherson, the second listed here.
http://ateupwithmotor.com/technology...t-history.html
Also check if they look like open to the fronts (toe-out).
Installing the rear camber kit and fronts are easy enough if you installing the new springs. Hopefully you did get new struts that can handle the springs. Stock struts will blow in no time with lowering springs...
•No camber gain: Because the top of the vertical strut is mounted rigidly to the body structure, MacPherson struts do not provide camber gain -- the wheels lose camber as the body leans. You can compensate to some degree by designing the suspension with a few degrees of static negative camber (that is, aligning the wheels so that the upper halves are tilted slightly inward when the car is level), but too much negative camber causes uneven tire wear. The only way to prevent camber loss is to use stiffer springs and/or anti-roll bars to reduce body lean, which results in a stiffer ride. It's possible to make a MacPherson strut car handle very well, as Porsche, Volkswagen, and BMW have repeatedly demonstrated, but it compromises ride quality more than would be the case with a double-wishbone suspension.
Sooo, by just dropping the car, the rears should look like /\, but not the fronts.
when the camber goes neg, the geometry makes toe go out, hence the twitch description
Not sure if taking to alignment will solve, but at the least they can try.
Also, the front camber kit for our cars is just an eccentric bolt. Rears are multi-link type designed to gain a lot of negative camber (to understeer the car in the limit - good for average driver).
Anywa, if you going to align, do both first.
The description of the car behaviour indicates more to an extreme toe than camber effects.
here - some history - if you had a previous generation - they had the double wishbone - could be designed with huge camber gains.
Ours are macpherson, the second listed here.
http://ateupwithmotor.com/technology...t-history.html
Also check if they look like open to the fronts (toe-out).
Installing the rear camber kit and fronts are easy enough if you installing the new springs. Hopefully you did get new struts that can handle the springs. Stock struts will blow in no time with lowering springs...
•No camber gain: Because the top of the vertical strut is mounted rigidly to the body structure, MacPherson struts do not provide camber gain -- the wheels lose camber as the body leans. You can compensate to some degree by designing the suspension with a few degrees of static negative camber (that is, aligning the wheels so that the upper halves are tilted slightly inward when the car is level), but too much negative camber causes uneven tire wear. The only way to prevent camber loss is to use stiffer springs and/or anti-roll bars to reduce body lean, which results in a stiffer ride. It's possible to make a MacPherson strut car handle very well, as Porsche, Volkswagen, and BMW have repeatedly demonstrated, but it compromises ride quality more than would be the case with a double-wishbone suspension.
Sooo, by just dropping the car, the rears should look like /\, but not the fronts.
when the camber goes neg, the geometry makes toe go out, hence the twitch description
Last edited by sdaidoji; 04-08-2011 at 10:28 PM.
04-08-2011
#15
Sedans > Coupes
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 173 Re: Really confused about lowering
Ah ok so he just meant the shocks and springs. Thanks.
All right so I'll be on the lookout for springs, shocks, and a camber kit, all for a ~1.5 inch drop this summer hopefully.
Thanks for all your helps. I would rep all of you but it keeps saying I need to spread it around.
Off to bed now, night.
All right so I'll be on the lookout for springs, shocks, and a camber kit, all for a ~1.5 inch drop this summer hopefully.
Thanks for all your helps. I would rep all of you but it keeps saying I need to spread it around.
Off to bed now, night.
04-08-2011
#16
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,790
Received 1,446 Likes
on
1,201 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Really confused about lowering
Hey, MB, someday we need to put all the info together on the suspension pieces... I am starting to lose some of the good info even myself put out there...
04-08-2011
#17
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,790
Received 1,446 Likes
on
1,201 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Really confused about lowering
Ah ok so he just meant the shocks and springs. Thanks.
All right so I'll be on the lookout for springs, shocks, and a camber kit, all for a ~1.5 inch drop this summer hopefully.
Thanks for all your helps. I would rep all of you but it keeps saying I need to spread it around.
Off to bed now, night.
All right so I'll be on the lookout for springs, shocks, and a camber kit, all for a ~1.5 inch drop this summer hopefully.
Thanks for all your helps. I would rep all of you but it keeps saying I need to spread it around.
Off to bed now, night.
when suspension is out, just inspect them but things could go south fast and not noticeable...
04-09-2011
#18
Registered!!
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Sunshine
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0 
Re: Really confused about lowering
I just got Spc front and rear camber kit, Eibach Sportlines, and Tokico blues for front and rear all for $595 shipped off Ebay..Call the manufactures ask for the correct part number search it in Ebay lowest price first, find a reputable seller and buy them cheapest your going to get them.
As for wear and tear! lol what problems might accrue or travel south? Prepare me now sdaidoji in further detail! Theirs not turning back now..I'm in for a ride.
As for wear and tear! lol what problems might accrue or travel south? Prepare me now sdaidoji in further detail! Theirs not turning back now..I'm in for a ride.
04-09-2011
#19
PITA Admin
Administrator
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: TN
Age: 52
Posts: 14,790
Received 1,446 Likes
on
1,201 Posts
Rep Power: 338 Re: Really confused about lowering
As for wear and tear! lol what problems might accrue or travel south? Prepare me now sdaidoji in further detail! Theirs not turning back now..I'm in for a ride.
start PB blasting related bolts 2 to 3 days before hand and pray they will loosen
Thread
Thread Starter
Honda Civic Forum
Replies
Last Post
JetsterDajet
Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it Forum
52
05-08-2016 12:11 AM
jackoncruzpr
7th Generation Civic 2001 - 2005
2
09-29-2015 07:59 PM
