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Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem Hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone has come across this problem before. Every now and then (not every time I want to find 1st gear), after coming to a stop and/or when shifting into 1st from a standstill, the shifter won't get into first gear. The shifter will move a little but I can feel a very distinct force/restriction and 1st gear won't engage. To over come this I can move forward in 2nd gear, or if on a hill, leave the car roll back ever-so-slightly and I can engage 1st gear again. The issue also happens when trying to get into reverse gear. All other gears shift normal. This issue has been going on for a while and if thought it doesn't happen all the time, I feel it might be getting worse/more common. Anyone got any ideas? First items to inspect or address. I did change the gearbox oil to GM synchromesh during the summer to see if that helped but it didn't make any difference. Thanks in advance! Sean |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem You can also pull (or push) on the shifter while gently and slightly lifting the clutch pedal to get the trans shafts to move a little bit. You can put the shifter in neutral, let the clutch pedal out and push it to the floor again and try your gear again. It's typical and expected, especially as a trans accumulates miles on it and gear teeth lose their sharp edges. Any action you can do to get the gears to move slightly will help allow teeth to slide together as you move the shifter. |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem
Originally Posted by ezone
(Post 4698082)
You can also pull (or push) on the shifter while gently and slightly lifting the clutch pedal to get the trans shafts to move a little bit. You can put the shifter in neutral, let the clutch pedal out and push it to the floor again and try your gear again. It's typical and expected, especially as a trans accumulates miles on it and gear teeth lose their sharp edges. Any action you can do to get the gears to move slightly will help allow teeth to slide together as you move the shifter. TBH, I have 'ground' (you know, if you can't find it, grind it!) the odd gear in over the years. Sh*t happens but generally I would react and engage the clutch, or pull out of the gear change...but every now and then a small grind will occur - not really in 1st gear though. |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem I have 'ground' (you know, if you can't find it, grind it!) the odd gear in over the years. Sh*t happens but generally I would react and engage the clutch, or pull out of the gear change...but every now and then a small grind will occur - not really in 1st gear though. When you are stopped, the gears (reverse) or hub/slider (forward gears) have to have their teeth aligned before they can engage. When new, there were sharp points on the ends of the teeth and they could easily slide together 97% of the time without having to try. As the points wear down and get blunt, the teeth don't slide together so easily. When you are not moving, the only things that will make the gears rotate so they can slide together is shoving the shifter into other higher gears, and the actions described above. |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem @ezone: Do you think this might also be caused by the shift linkage? On 90-91 Integras,a bent shift linkage or worn bushings can cause this exact problem (i own one that's about ready for new bushings and/or shift linkage). I just don't know Civics well enough to say the same thing. I throw this out b/c its a simpler/cheaper repair than a new transmission... |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem Just answered this in another forums for a different car... It's normal to an extent in all the manual cars I have had... Past that certain extent s something need maintenance. Get a friend that have same car with good maintenance and ask to drive it. |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem
Originally Posted by ezone
(Post 4698085)
That's exactly how the wear and tear happens. When you are stopped, the gears (reverse) or hub/slider (forward gears) have to have their teeth aligned before they can engage. When new, there were sharp points on the ends of the teeth and they could easily slide together 97% of the time without having to try. As the points wear down and get blunt, the teeth don't slide together so easily. When you are not moving, the only things that will make the gears rotate so they can slide together is shoving the shifter into other higher gears, and the actions described above. |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem
Originally Posted by PMI
(Post 4698133)
@ezone: Do you think this might also be caused by the shift linkage? On 90-91 Integras,a bent shift linkage or worn bushings can cause this exact problem (i own one that's about ready for new bushings and/or shift linkage). I just don't know Civics well enough to say the same thing. I throw this out b/c its a simpler/cheaper repair than a new transmission... Just went out to the car and the shifter is pretty stiff when in neutral (move shifter to left and release, and to the right and release) and in gears....although there was more play in 5th & reverse. From neutral position, the shifter was 'harder ' to move towards 5th/rev than 1st/2nd. Should I be checking anything else for this inspection? |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem
Originally Posted by PMI
(Post 4698133)
@ezone: Do you think this might also be caused by the shift linkage? On 90-91 Integras,a bent shift linkage or worn bushings can cause this exact problem (i own one that's about ready for new bushings and/or shift linkage). I just don't know Civics well enough to say the same thing. I throw this out b/c its a simpler/cheaper repair than a new transmission... As far as cost, once one figures up prices of a few individual gears and hub/slider sets you may quickly exceed the price of a decent used trans. (In my world we calculate labor dollars in addition to parts dollars.)
Originally Posted by sdaidoji
(Post 4698137)
Just answered this in another forums for a different car... It's normal to an extent in all the manual cars I have had... Past that certain extent s something need maintenance. Get a friend that have same car with good maintenance and ask to drive it. As I said in my first reply, a lot of the "complaint" is typical and expected behavior in a manual transmission.
Originally Posted by seanywaa
(Post 4698177)
Thanks ezone, is it the gears or synchros loose the teeth edges? I've been doing more research and watching videos of gearbox internals to get familiar and it seems the gears are a more robust item....thinking the synchro teeth would fail first - just a thought Forward gears are a little different since the gears don't actually slide, there's the blocker rings and hub/sliders, but the tiny pentagon shaped teeth of each gear and slider can still be damaged every time a person accidentally grinds during a shift. They are robust, the gears are hardened steel, but certainly not indestructible.
Originally Posted by seanywaa
(Post 4698179)
Just went out to the car and the shifter is pretty stiff when in neutral (move shifter to left and release, and to the right and release) and in gears....although there was more play in 5th & reverse. From neutral position, the shifter was 'harder ' to move towards 5th/rev than 1st/2nd. and reverse has a 'gate' so you cannot shift directly from 5-->R, you have to be in neutral before you can go to reverse.... one could really screw up trans parts if they mis-shift into R while rolling down the highway. |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem
Originally Posted by ezone
(Post 4698202)
Could be.... Only way to tell for sure is to crack it open and start inspecting and measuring. As far as cost, once one figures up prices of a few individual gears and hub/slider sets you may quickly exceed the price of a decent used trans. (In my world we calculate labor dollars in addition to parts dollars.) This. As I said in my first reply, a lot of the "complaint" is typical and expected behavior in a manual transmission. The sliding reverse idler gear and its matching gears are easy to grind the sharp edges off of. As the edges get rounded, it decreases the chances of a smooth ideal engagement on the first try. Forward gears are a little different since the gears don't actually slide, there's the blocker rings and hub/sliders, but the tiny pentagon shaped teeth of each gear and slider can still be damaged every time a person accidentally grinds during a shift. They are robust, the gears are hardened steel, but certainly not indestructible. This sounds correct to me. The shifter is normally sprung to the middle (3-4) and you have to pull left to go toward 1-2, and push harder right to get to 5-R.... and reverse has a 'gate' so you cannot shift directly from 5-->R, you have to be in neutral before you can go to reverse.... one could really screw up trans parts if they mis-shift into R while rolling down the highway. I'll likely just leave it be as it not causing too much trouble. That said, if the odd grind has done damage to the synchros or gears, why are 1st and reverse gears most affected when in my time they've never been ground into...well, as far as I remember anyway. |
Re: Manual gearbox shifting into 1st and reverse problem Because in 1st and reverse all the internals of the trans are at a standstill. Your shifter movements are trying to get individual gear sets to rotate slightly so the teeth can line up. All other forward gears you don't notice much because all the shafts and gears are already spinning. |
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