Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Love this car (helluva step up from a crank-window '99 Escort I bought off my mother to protect her from its looming 100K failures)... but the car is 10 MYs old, and has 144K on it. Compression numbers are fine, and so far no obvious signs of the dreaded head gasket issues (and trust me, I have been searching for any telltales or tests for it). Maybe I got lucky and it was taken care of already, no idea except it seems to work pretty well for a 10-yo Honda that probably had very mechanically-ignorant owners...

My issues are 1) intermittent but frequent jerky throttle response, 2) jerky brake feel, 3) abrupt clutch engagement. All of these things seem to be things with simple explanations due to the age and mileage of the car, but thought I'd run it past the vet-cadre to see if what I'm experiencing raises any expensive and/or difficult-to-fix flags...

Work done to the car already:

-- Compression check (done when negotiating to buy the car) -- in-spec
-- Oil change with Mobil 1 5W20 High-Mileage synth and NAPA Gold spin-on
-- Air filter change with NAPA Gold element
-- Coolant burp and top-up with Honda Type 2
-- General fastener inspection and torquing wherever I could find specs.

Haven't had time to do much this past month, as I'm rapidly growing my business (suppose that's a blessing in this economy... but it cramps time to work on the Honda and my bikes quite a bit).


Throttle response issue: sometimes when cold, the throttle becomes very abrupt on tip-in, esp at low speed in 1st & 2nd. Could be simply a grunge buildup on the edge of the throttle plate... but it doesn't happen every startup. It seems to subside a bit when the car is warm... but throttle response mellows as any engine warms... so I'm wondering if something else is wrong.

Jerky brakes: could this be simply worn shoes in the rear? Or is it a bleed issue? I can feel a slight braking with initial pedal pressure, then all of a sudden it grabs, annoying when parking or crawling in traffic (it's embarrassing to realize even the old Escort's awful brakes, are more progressive and controllable than this Civic's are right now). On a Honda motorcycle with their Linked Braking System*, that's exactly how it feels when you have pads worn down to the backing plate in the back, as the rear brakes engage slightly before the fronts with LBS.

Clutch: seems like the engagement point is super-narrow... so could this be a throwout bearing issue? I know on bikes and quads when a throwout bearing goes, it does cause the engagement point to get very grabby, not to mention this car definitely has its original clutch in it. Worn clutch linings and warped flywheels can do that also, so wonder if worn throwouts are common on this drivetrain at nearly 150K...


Used to have a full shop on my property with a 50' x 30' slab, 30' bench and 220/110 wiring back in WA... but when I moved back to HI to take care of my folks, all that went away (and would be ungodly expensive to look for)... now all I have is my apartment complex parking space, which limits what I can do severely (any clutch problems or head problems demand a local shop here I trust do it, but the cost is through the roof).

Thanks fellas -- any Insight you can provide (see what I did there? :hgrin:) is appreciated... now that I know where the Rep button is. :sweet:

--

* LBS -- most motorcycle brakes are separate front and rear. On LBS bikes the lever and pedal operate pistons on both wheels (early versions), or just the lever brakes both wheels (later), similar to a car's proportioning. Fine for street riding esp when you have an ABS system on your bike... but for the track, not so great. :fighter:

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

I think you might be nit-picking LOL

You didn't mention your mileage. Oh wait, you did at the bottom. Durr, read it all first...

Throttle response, IDK.

Brake pulsation, (Not sure if you described this or not) sounds like maybe a warpage or DTV (disc thickness variation) issue.

If it were the rears, you can pull the handbrake while rolling and figure that part out easily.
I almost never see drum warp problems on these unless someone gets them HOT and pulls the handbrake super hard, then leaves it like that.

Brake grab, aftermarket pads? Temperature related friction characteristic changes?

OE shoes last an incredibly long time. I guess easily 5:1 over the fronts. Most in my area will easily outlast the car, or well past 200k miles. We do not keep any shoes in stock. Aftermarket brakes of any kind are a crapshoot IMO for feel and lifespan.



Clutch, "super narrow"?? That's an ODD description! (thus, the nit-pick comment)
TO brg? No, I seriously doubt it.
I wouldn't worry unless the HEIGHT of engagement changes drastically. If it engages at the floor, it's probably leaked the fluid out. If it engages at the top, it's about out of clutch and time to replace it.
If it actually slips under a load, that's a problem.

Keep in mind here that I might drive a dozen different cars in any one day, and roughly compare like models to like models in the past, and "average feel"....
But the only cars I drive all the time are my own.
All I care when I drive a car is that they work... If something is BAD it's almost always obvious.
If someone is super anal about minute changes that a regular person wouldn't ever notice....... that's hard to deal with and not much can be done until/unless the complaint is substantiated.



Thought: See if lining temperature and humidity have anything to do with how the perceptions/feelings change in the clutch and brakes.

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

It's possible... I am a tech, also used to drive a bunch of different vehicles in a day. The throttle response issue is new, wasn't until two days ago that it started doing it, so it got my attention after a few starts and normal driving (my short-distance errands are almost daily) just to reproduce it. It's cool... if it's not in your exp, I trust it...


Not pulsation per se, just an abrupt grabbiness at one point in the pedal's travel. In a normal car you can feather the brake to get a little braking, a bit further to get more, etc. In this car, the first inch or so doesn't do much until one certain point, then it's almost like I pressed much harder on the brake, when I haven't. Different from the rhythmic grab-release-grab-release of a warped rotor. Again, if it's not familiar, thanks at least for responding.

I can't say the kid who was the previous owner hadn't done that, because frankly after talking with him about the car, he's not the brightest bulb in the box. The owner he bought the car from was a sort of an older cougar-y party girl (I was shocked to meet her at the dealer picking up my fluids when she recognized the car). Could be a parking brake left on by either of them... but right now the likelihood is equal that someone just misadjusted the rear brake shoe clearance on a change... that's at least something I can check in the parking lot...

Nah, but good suggestion. I only say that because judging by 1) the wrong sensor in the upstream position, 2) the utter stockness of the car, not even aftermarket rims or a fleabay SRI on it, and 3) his desperateness to get cash for this car... tell me he doesn't know enough to change even pads, and didn't have enough cash and/or motivation (probably a new dad) to get a shop to do it. I was surprised he even bothered to change the sensor (a 01-03 O2, not the LAF on an 04)...

The engagement range is super-narrow (the travel from when it first begins to transfer torque, to full-engagement, meaning zero slip). Mentioned it because some Yamahas in the PS world have a very narrow range of engagement vs. Hondas and Suzukis due to their throwout mechanisms being completely different (internal rod thru the clutch basket from the shifter side vs. a lever and pawl on the clutch case). Suzukis have models with both, so I asked because if it's how the machine's suppsed to work, it's an adjustment issue with me. But you have to admit... a stock Honda clutch isn't going to last 150K w/o being moderately worn, even with a careful driver... so your comment about high engagement=worn clutch lining is probably where it's at.

No slippage, but when it does slip it's really tricky to balance the throttle and clutch to keep the motor from stalling. When the clutch warms a bit with slippage, it's better... however if my bikes' clutches engaged like this, I'd think something was wrong enough to redo the clutch adjustment procs. Mind you, I haven't driven a manual car since March 2011, and it was a totally different clutch feel and engagement height as this Civic ('92 Paseo with 265K on the factory clutch, and *still* had a nice meaty range, engaging much lower, and no slippage but very easy to control -- cinch to drive in snow). Could just be me... but if it's a possible throwout or pilot going, I need to know. ;)

Hear ya. I tell peeps on my bike forums all the time, "there's only so much I can do over the internet, do your homework or talk to a f2f pro". It's cool, I know the drill. What I was asking for, is if any of these problems ring any bells, raise any flags. I tend to trust people who actually do the work, but getting a bunch of opinions on a forum full of them, can't hurt. :)

See -- this is the kind of gears-turnin' advice from techs on forums that I love. I'm pretty good with diag on bikes, ATVs and watercraft... but I'm not in my house here. :CEL:

Today was a weird day with a sopping-humid overnight followed by threatening rain all day, kind of warm though (79 for the high in my town). It dumped about 4pm, hard... but by that time I'd stopped driving for the day. Perhaps humidity played a role, as low pressure will affect engine performance (jerkiness) and an upward trend of high humidity can affect clutch engagement (at least on ATVs with dry clutches and Ducatis), until they heat up past boiling point. Good catch. :tup:

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

I'd totally expect noise if there's a problem, not a change in the feeling. That would be unusual.

Change both if/when you do the clutch.

Seems like every time I jump into a different MT car, I blip the throttle a little instead of trying to feather it as I let the clutch out... At least this keeps me from stalling an unfamiliar car in front of people in the service lane.
Still would have it completely engaged before 5 MPH though.




Worn lining has less cushion?

Are you sure it's the original clutch? Maybe a multi-puck clutch instead of a regular stock unit (because race car)?

Have you compared to another M/T Civic of the same generation?

Have you had the fronts apart, are any of the pads binding in the brackets? All 4 are free to move as needed? They get bound by rust here....not sure if that might be an issue there on an island.
I'd hope they are still original and still in good shape.
Seriously, about the only common issue is squeaking every time you pump the pedal (lube the web to backing plate contact pads).
Even here in the rust belt, I don't see them getting self adjusters bound up or anything. IDK what warm humid sea air (guesses) does to cars though....

Leaking wheel cylinders? Contaminated linings?

Only the throttle response thing that you said is really recent, maybe just because I can't tell if it is critical or not, and can't toss a likely answer at it..


Late night delusional ramblings, gotta sleep

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Pretty sure... neither of the two previous owners had the inclination and/or cash to put one in this car, as the usual swaps (wheels, etc.) are still stock, and have run many miles installed re: brake dust etches, dirt and grunge and wear marks on plastic intake tabs, etc. And worn, carbonized clutch linings on multi-plate clutches do get grabby, but I don't have the experience with single-plate clutches.

Not yet... though that's something I'd do as a shop tech simply because there are always going to be similar units in the lot. As a civvie though... don't know anyone with a m/t 7th gen yet that would let me do this.

Maybe. Pad binding sounds like a good candidate. This car spent most of its nights above 5000 ft here, as both previous owners lived upcountry on the slopes of the big mountain here, and commuted down to sea level to work. Up there the salt doesn't get to cars as badly as down here, mostly due to lower temps and less-salinated air. The rust on it is actually pretty good for a 10yo car. But heat accelerates corrosion... so exhaust, brakes and suspension will always rot quicker on any car. Front has not been apart yet; have to find a slow day during the week.

Not to me! Thanks for the advice. :tup:

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

I think I may've found out at least why the EX had throttle response issues... octane. Filled up this evening with a blend of even more 87 than the 5 gals 92/6 gals 87 from last time... and it doesn't have jerky throttle response anymore. It even shifts better. ;) Just goes to show you how much of a non-performance engine a D17A2 is -- it runs better with less octane, and becomes even easier to use as a DD...

Still leaves the clutch and brakes issues, though... will update when I can wrench.

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

On your brake issues. When was the last time the brake fluid was flushed and/or changed? You might have excess moisture in your fluid and/or air in the system causing your braking issues. I had a very similar issue with the grabbing thing.

I've used the person in the drivers seat and push the brake flush method, the vacuum method and let Honda flush it. Honda's brake bleed and fill procedure yielded the best results for me. Yeah it cost a little extra, but my grabbing issues disappeared.

Just my .02 on your brake issue.

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

You reminded me.....way back in the 90s when I worked with Mazdas, we had several loaner 323s from the late 80s-early 90s... they got hard to start cold and ran like crap the first several seconds if someone put high octane gas in them.

Long time, no see! Dude up there might want to test drive another manual trans 7th gen car, do you know of any handy?

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Thanks ezone -- but if Matt's in Honolulu, it'd cost me $300 to get that test drive (round-trip ticket from Maui to O'ahu). ;)

There are a *lot* of 7gens still around here, as Honda cars and Toyota trucks are prized by Locals a lot more than other brands... mostly DX/LXs, though. 7gen EXs are a much rarer beast, IME so far.

Just means I need to get out more lol. :hgrin:

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Thanks, Matt -- as a moto tech, having a problem with moisture in your lines feels a lot different subjectively on a sportbike vs. a car (probably has to do partially with ABS and vacuum boosters being in the fluid path). I mentioned with ezone in earlier posts that similar problems from my own wrenching days aren't always applicable to cars; learning the differences is why I've joined this community. :)

Thanks, will probably have the dealer flush my lines as I don't always have an extra body available to do it right the usual diagonal-corner-to-diagonal-corner way. ;)

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Just asked my dealer shop how much a brake flush costs on my '04. He said $175. I politely thanked him, and beat-feet outta there. Almost 2 bills to squirt new fluid through my lines? Thanks, I'll take the chance on doing it myself; have bled ABS bikes in less than 20 mins. :/

Do Honda dealers really charge 1.75 hrs for a brake fluid flush? Man, seems like a ripoff... but if that's really the flat rate on that job, I may reconsider and save, as my time is getting pretty cramped work-wise.

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Give some neighbor kid $10 to sit in the seat and pump the pedal for you.
Go buy a Mityvac and vacuum bleed it by yourself. Still less than 20 minutes.

Or hell, just gravity bleed it.

Only if you buy it for that price.


I have a million dollar glass of lemonade I'm trying to sell....I only need to sell one.

Now I'm feeling ripped off. We don't even get half of that where I work.



Got Alldata or anything like it to look up labor time?
I know I could make time and figure it out (if I didn't already work in a shop) I used to do this in the driveway when I was younger, no problemo.


Put your GoPro on the dash and record what really happens LOL.

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

This is encouraging, actually. On sportbikes you have to remove quite a bit of bodywork in many cases just to get to the stock master reservoir at the back, so that's why I quoted my time. Still got paid an hour to do it... but if you're unfamiliar with the bike that's not unreasonable, esp if you're working on it on the ground and not on a lift. ;)

Ah, ye of many options... I envy living on the mainland, wish I still was when it comes to this. As before, I have one Honda dealer here... based on work done to my mom's Fit, they do okay work. But it's inflated, monopoly pricing that's the rule on an island, that pisses me off. I'm not intimidated with getting dirty or anything, but my line of work, you have to be ready when the customer calls, or word gets around. Carving out that time isn't trivial.

Don't be. You're getting what you (a dealer shop) deserve, and if that's what I was quoted, the car'd be in the shop and out before I answered this post. I'd pay $80 for that job any day, and even move a client appt to do it. :p

I understand it, did it on my Paseo before... except I'm not younger anymore. :rofl: I'm in my mid-40s, and after wrestling with that f***ing POS Escort for a year and a half in my parking space getting eyed by neighbors (even having the police called on me by an old busybody for 'disturbing my building' -- she was a HUD leech :hithead: ), the idea of farming out a bit of the labor isn't as offensive as it used to be. Also, when I had my own shop space in WA, I used to give my friends crap for not working on their own stuff too. What goes around comes around, I guess! :hgrin:

Not sure what this is referring to...

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

If you send it to the shop, let it record so you can see or hear what was done. Was just a thought.

I've got a dashcam in mine.....although I have yet to record anything exciting on my commutes.

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Ah okay -- yeah I have been looking on Amazon on-&-off for some of the better lo-priced ones, as the incidence of intentional brake-checks here on the island has gone up (when I lived in Phx they were a fact of life; if you didn't have footage, you were going to lose court costs AND pay higher premiums).

If you can believe it, road rage is also up here (these people obviously have never driven down I-17 in Phx in July on the afternoon commute... they need to know what really bad traffic actually is), and a few times I wished I had proof of useless douchiness. :rolleyes:

Keep catching video -- because at least in my life, when I'd stop, is when the Idiocracy comes out and decides to drive. :th_redx:

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

This (link) is what I have in the Civic at the moment. On a custom bracket, not the suction cup mount that came with.

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

I like this one: http://goo.gl/RQgr6R -- the DVR-027 is getting rave reviews. What's your low-light performance like? Battery life (actual vs. manufacturer claims)?

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Reviews were good, other people had decent looking videos from it.

Ya know, I haven't really had anything worth reviewing or uploading, so I really haven't messed with it much since about the first week or so that I had it. It's just been riding around on the windshield all this time....waiting....

always powered by the car at this point.

I know one evening I sat and reviewed stored video for a good half hour or more using the internal battery though.
Still haven't taken the micro SD card out or connected to a computer yet.

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Quick update, re: driveability...

Decided to check coolant, as I got to park on a level space rather than the crowned curb (Thai restaurant across street so residents have to jockey for spaces daily)...

Found the top-off I'd done a few days ago (Type 2 coolant) was already sucked down past the neck of the rad. That alarmed me, as the car showed no outward signs of coolant ingestion (like stumbling or other rough running), but it seemed like a lot for just three days of around-town driving. Topped it off again until it dribbled over the rim slightly, no chance of air in there... with a new cap I'd bought at the stealership yesterday.

So this was kind of a surprise, kind of not -- it ran even better, and was even easier to drive than I'd gotten used to.* Could be that the extra top-off of Type 2 I'd put in 3 days ago, had helped some air get out of the heater core or something (geez, I hope :facepalm: ), as it ran a bit better then, too. I'd also noticed topping off this time, that from stone cold the engine temp on the gauge rose faster to op temp than I'd seen so far, which is good.

One major complaint I've had with engine power recently, was that it'd run like I expected a 150K A2 motor to run for about five mins after warming up... then petering back to a kind of wheezy version of itself. My theory is that air pockets in the head possibly allowed head temps to get a bit high, which affects power, esp consistent power. Replacing the air with coolant let the rad do its job and remove heat. The car now can do rollon pulls in 4th repeatedly without feeling fatigued, which hasn't happened since I yanked out that 01-03 O2 sensor from the downpipe (btw, the car doesn't run anywhere near as strong with the proper sensor in it, but mpg rose by 4 mpg... almost thinking about putting it back in and letting the CEL stay on, as my mpg was still over 31 with the wrong sensor :p ).

I guess the test now is to check the rad cap every day, top off when low. If it tops off and stays full after a few days, then it was air in the system getting out. If it constantly needs more coolant every day... then I have a big problem. :CEL:


* when I bought the dang car, I've covered how neglected it'd been... oil a quart low with a P1259(?) VTEC malfunction CEL... coolant below the MIN line in the overflow tank... but the gauges read a-ok despite, no overheating or limp mode at all. I'd immediately put in the proper amount of coolant (not Type 2 though), and topped off oil before changing it a few days later (added a quart of 5W20 Rotella-T synth diesel engine oil... which did loosen a *lot* of grunge into that oil pan, nasty).

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Found another piece of the puzzle here...

So being that coolant does die over time, I decided since I had an hour for lunch, to test a hunch I had about how vital good cooling is in a D17...

So I mentioned the improvements via good burp on the cooling system, and how a little extra coolant when *stone cold* under the rad cap (plus having a good rad cap) had a noticeable effect on how consistently the engine delivers its mini-stable :p of horses. But if heat transfer was having that big an effect... would more improve it further?

When wrenching for my endurance SV650 race team in WA, and on old 5.0 Mustangs in particular... one trick to getting a bit better response was to turn on the heater full blast before a pull, as it's essentially a little radiator -- more surface area exposed to the coolant, the less chance of heat soak. My heater had just began working better since burping the system/topping off... would it matter in normal driving?

So I tootled around town until it got good and hot, then made some turns onto an uphill street I know, where the car has in the past seemed like it had a potato in the tailpipe. :rolleyes: Much better...

Drove around the block, and sat at the light with my heater on full blast, fan on 1/2... then did it again. Not only did it pull almost as hard as with the CEL/wrong sensor problem... but as long as I kept the heater blowing, two more pulls after that, were almost exactly as hard.

Next, a pull on the open highway, standing to 70. Better than before (still not as BMW-330i-like as with the wrong sensor though). I could also pull much harder over 60 than even after the second coolant top-off... which was the best it ran with the LAF sensor in.

Verdict? I think I have a coolant age problem -- it's just worn out is my guess and needs swapped. Makes sense with the previous owners' blase attitudes towards maintenance, too. So now a coolant drop will definitely happen after the valve cover gasket and cylinder head plug swaps, as both leak slightly... maybe I'll finally feel all 107 horses (20 escaped over 144K miles and two undeserving owners). :p

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Butt dyno says the coolant AGE is affecting performance??
I think that's crazy talk -- right up there with saying an oil change makes it run better..... but whatever....see what happens



You're gonna have coolant drained when you do the head gasket. (HINT HINT)
Located an air compressor yet?

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Not really... if the coolant in it, is the same stuff that came in it at the factory... then it's at least two changes overdue and lost a lot of its ability to absorb heat. I added new coolant in the overflow tank already, so that'll throw off hygrometer readings (shoulda done that right when I got it, but slipped my mind). I'm not imagining the improvements -- I used to vet 1 hp changes on the dyno and on the track, from a chain brand change. ;)

No compressor. Asked everyone I could find, and no one had one on their person. :hgrin: Like I mentioned before, I don't have one either anymore, since leaving a lot of it behind in WA. Around here, shops are jerks... you certainly don't just bebop into one cold, and say 'heeeeey, lemmeh use your air line, bro', unless you know someone there... and since I just moved back home after 15 yrs on the mainland... the old faces are long gone. Happens...

Sounds like a lot of excuses... but then again I'm not a working tech anymore, in a totally different industry, in a place where there aren't a lot of choices you'd normally take for granted in the 48 contiguous. ;)

Re: head gasket -- we'll see! So far the heater is working great, and the coolant consumption is minor. I wonder if retorquing the head bolts will do anything about coolant jacket seal... :confused:

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

I just wanted to use the butt dyno expression. :lol:



When I worked closer to the inner city here, this wanting to "borrie summa yer tooools" seemed like a daily occurrence. Hell no.
It's MLS gasket, not composite. Never tried it myself, and I doubt it would work.

Seen it done countless times by others in dealerships on other engines, it never really worked. Blown out the door was never the same as "fixed".


Not sure where you're at, there's a couple compressors on HI CL
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/tls/4361822561.html
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/tls/4348995572.html
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/kau/tls/4363037673.html

Got a tank? http://honolulu.craigslist.org/big/tls/4357419715.html

Couple small ones that are probably way too small
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/oah/tls/4349942272.html
http://honolulu.craigslist.org/big/tls/4370617820.html

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Thanks, ezone -- but the main obstacle to using a compressor, is 1) where to put it, as I live in an apt complex, 2) where to plug it in, as there are no outlets either around the complex, nor anymore at my storage facility, since people of course abused them -- plus they've warned me before for checking and topping off the ATF in my Escort there... and finally 3) if I did get one at the apt, the noise would kick the woodpile and all the busybodies would complain to the LL... not an option. :(

Unless I'm a roommate in a house here (yeah right with a 600 sq ft house going for $700K and rents above $2500 a month), getting a compressor would be a waste of money...

What wouldn't be though... is an air tank.

Pneumatic tank used to transport pressurized air, around $30 on the mainland and of course $60 here for the same Chinese junk... size of a backpack, steel canister with a finger knurl shutoff valve and a short length of hose with a schrader valve fitting, usually --- that would actually be doable. Just have to build the air fitting adapter for the compression tester pigtail, and Bob's yer uncle. ;)

Yeah, I remember the gasket was MLS... apparently they don't seal very well with these heads, but they also won't be damaged by retorquing them. I figure, can't hurt. Unless the head bolts had red loctite on them (which they won't)... then walking from all those heat/cool cycles may've relieved them of some torque, not to mention some temper (bolt stretch). Takes a long time with good metals, but all metals experience de-stressing. Ten years is plenty, esp when your first two owners can't check coolant level or oil level. :hithead:

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Oh BTW, in case you you were wondering... here are my tools:


http://i67.photobucket.com/
My storage closet... box/rollaway and tool cart are on the left, my bike, a heavily-modified SV650, on right, along with half the closet I can't fit into my current palacials. :P



http://i67.photobucket.com/
Told ya... I'm messy too. But that's mostly due to just not being a tech anymore and not caring as much. :p But there're better things to be done than shine your tools like a douchebag. ;)



http://i67.photobucket.com/
SV on a rearstand, tool cart on right. I miss riding... but I have to save my hands, so on CL it'll go. If you want to buy a reliable commuter that's fun as hell and easy/forgiving/inexpensive to raise hell with... there are few better bikes than an SV. ;)



http://i67.photobucket.com/
Not sure if car guys see many 10mm thread diameters, but here's one. Same 5/8" hex, but a tiny plug electrode. This one is a CR9EIX NGK, an iridium that was 3x the price of a CR9EK, a dual side electrode with a normal copper center, that outperformed it in every way. More expensive isn't always better...



http://i67.photobucket.com/
Last one... my pneumatic tool drawer. Most of the sockets went into the travel toolbag I have at the house, so I don't have to drive six miles just to get tools to work on a car twenty steps away.



Whaddya know... new guy really was a tech for 15 years! Emphasis on 'was'. :CEL: :p

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Can you hook me up with a 12 step program to get me offa this too?

:lol:






/Step 1. Admit there is a problem
//Hi. My name is ezone and I'm a tool junkie

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

LOL :hgrin:

Waiting to see if there's a lot of coolant missing from under my rad cap this AM... fingers crossed!

Oh BTW -- there aren't any special tips for bleeding and flushing brakes with ABS on this car, are there? Unless something's getting replaced I haven't seen anything in the FSM different from a regular bleed...

Although there is one important Honda difference from my usual routine on cars: the FSM specifies an order for bleed: FL, FR, RR, RL... or clockwise from the FL corner. On my Escort, Mazdas, Subarus and may other brands, IIRC the rule of thumb is FL, RR, FR, RL (diagonal corners from FL).

Follow the Honda FSM proc rather than that one... have a feeling it has to do with ABS. :tup:

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

If you are only trying to move/change/replace fluid then IMO order doesn't really matter much as long as you get them all.

But if you have trapped air and are having difficulty getting it to purge out, refer to the FSM.

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

^Ah, gotcha... that's good to know it's isn't that sensitive to just bleeding. Will correct my Do's and Don'ts section in my 'special tools' thread. :tup:

Looked under my rad cap before driving to lunch -- still topped up to the brim! And yesterday was a lot of stop-&-go plus a few highway pulls, so that's encouraging... if just set back a few minutes on the Gasket Swap Bomb doomsday clock. :p

The car does drive a little different now... it feels the tiniest bit less revvy, but also a lot more consistent, whether it's WOT trying to make a light... or toodling around with A/C on behind a bunch of geriatric tourists. Probably because the water pump's vanes aren't just compressing air bubbles now but actually moving more fluid. Again, encouraging -- opening the heater core up with a lot of varying revs that hour may've done the trick and chased out a little more air, plus someone bogarted my curb spot last night and had to park on a hill. ;)

Re: Driveability issues on hi-mile '04 EX 5spd
 

Erm.....

You should always refer to the FSM for all procedures. (This forum is comprised of mostly owners and a few DIYers, not pro mechanics.)

I don't operate at the 'driveway level', so you probably shouldn't quote me on anything.
I do what works for me the in a shop environment the majority of the time, not anyone else.








"Part of being a good technician is the ability to adapt on the fly. Often times things don't go the way the book says it should."

When things stop going "by the book", it might as well be a brick wall for many people.
When you know many different ways to accomplish any given task, you have options outside the realm of the FSM.
Experience guides the majority of my actions and choices during a job.
FSM is more of a last resort for me.