Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

In another thread I discussed my '03 losing fuel economy. Today, I replaced both O2 sensors, the vapor canister, and the EGR valve. My first test run went well and the vehicle responded/drove great. I got 3 CEL codes about 100 yds down the road, but was not concerned as the vehicle continued to drive will for the remainder of my test run (approximately 2 miles).

When I got back, I pulled codes P0131, P0112, and P1519. I didnt think anything of them because I figured the ECM had to recalibrate the vehicle for the new parts. I clear the codes and go on a second maintenance run.....

This is where the issues began, the throttle was unresponsive regardless of how far I pressed the pedal, then all of the sudden the throttle would kick in to were it was supposed to be at. This only happened a couple of times, then the vehicle began to drive normally again (without any CEL codes popping up). I only drove about a mile for the second maintenance run....and when I was about 3/4 mile into the trip, the CEL came back on, this time only with P0131.

This code is for "upstream o2 sensor circuit low voltage"....I checked my electrical connections and everything looked OK.

IDEAS!?!?! :hithead:

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

Do you have a live data feature on your scanner? At operating temp are you getting 0.5V from the primary sensor at WOT?

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

OK....so it is my bust for overlooking the obvious. I cleared the code again and got P0132 which is O2 sensor high voltage. I replaced with the original O2 sensor and everything is working fine again. My problem was a bad part....

I do have another question if you guys could help out.

Attachment 99262

This is the old and new O2 sensors.....less surface area equals less effeciency and accuracy during fuel/oxygen calculations?

Maybe I am over exaggerating, but I like to replace OEM parts with OEM parts. The O2 sensors are supposed to be the same but are way different....

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

Didnt remove the plastic cap on the new O2 sensor until installation FYI.....you can still see the difference in size and shape.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

EGR shouldn't be a problem like that as the opening is the same size. Now, the O2 sensor is definitely not OEM. Take that ish back a demand an OEM part, not OEM replacement.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

OK....I got both O2 sensors from rockauto and actually bought the Bosch models that were SPECIFICALLY recommened by a user on this site. I cant recall the thread, but I definately bought the same part I was told to.

------------------------------

Bump....found the thread by Gearbox:

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...e-up-mods.html

I purchased the recommened Bosch PN: 13532 for the primary sensor, and Bosch PN: 13534 for the post cat sensor. Both of the new sensor look the same and both of the old sensors look the same......so they are clearly different. I am not knocking on gearbox or anything.....am just curious what my personal issues are! =P thanks in advance.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

Sorry bro, I wouldn't recommend Bosch. I would recommend Denso as that's the manufacturer for Honda.

Good rule of thumb: Denso or Mitsu for Asian imports, Bosch for European imports, and AC Delco or Delphi for domestic

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

Crap, I just looked at the rockauto website and found that Bosch is the ONLY manufacturer that does not have the extended end on the O2 sensors. I guess it is my fault for not looking at other products, I just assumed that gearbox had good info as all his other info was correct.

Again, I am not knocking gearbox, just dont want anyone to have to go through the same BS I had to.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

either you ordered the wrong part or they sent you the wrong sensor. there are two different types. the longer one with the holes is the primary, the shorter one is the secondary. you cannot mix them up (i made the same mistake when i blindly went to the auto store and had them look it up). they gave me a secondary sensor instead of primary. there is absolutely nothing wrong with bosch, they are the exact same NTK sensor as oem honda. it even says ntk on the sensors, and they look EXACTLY the same as oem with regard to everything including the wires and plug. the fact that the wires were different sizes should have clued you in. I ran with the wrong sensor for less than a mile before the engine light came on and i knew there was a problem with the way the car was acting. i installed the right sensors and have been trouble free for over three years on the bosch parts.

i hope i made it clear that the part numbers are for the 01-03 civic EX only. so if that is what you have, then these are the correct numbers i looked up myself at advance auto. the numbers are similar, please verify they are correct and that you installed them in the proper positions. you cannot switch them around as they are completely different parts.

primary (upstream) downpipe sensor: bosch 13532

secondary (downstream) in the cat converter: bosch 13534

as ive said already, your old sensor is what the primary should look like. the new one in the plastic is what the secondary should look like. they sent you the wrong part.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

now this is interesting! look what i found when searching for pics of the sensors. someone on amazon posted a review about the primary sensor a year ago stating that he got the correct box and number, but the inside part was wrong. i bet thats what happened to you. someone messed up at the factory and they put the wrong sensor in the right box lol. well not really funny, just annoying.

http://www.amazon.com/Bosch-13532-Ox.../dp/B000VAQLXE

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

also if you dont mind, i would like to use your pic and update the forgotten diy thread with this new info. i bought mine 3 yrs ago and the mixups seem to have started sometime in 2010 but i cant say for sure.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

OK....I hope you are correct and will contact rockauto tomorrow. I did order Bosch 13532 and Bosch 13534. The O2 sensors looked different, and the wires were different from one another. The 13532 wire matched the primary sensor and had two grommets for holding in place. The secondary 13534 by the cat only had one grommet and met the wire length as the original.

BOTH O2 sensors had the exact same shallow end that was in the above pictures. It is important to not that BOTH the OEM O2 sensors that I removed had LONG ends just like the ones in the picture.

I just checked the specs on rockauto and the pictures show the same image as what the OEM looked like, NOT what was sent to me. I verified that the part numbers on the package were the same so, I guess they put the wrong part in the right box with the right part number?

Im confused =/

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

I think there is no doubt now....the wrong part was put in the right box! LOL.....I will update when I hear back.....

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

lmao, now the fun part is gonna be explaining this to them so they check the box first and make sure the right sensor is in there.

hey are you sure about both oem sensors you pulled out having the long ends with holes in the tip? if so then someone installed the wrong sensor in the secondary cat converter position a while back. fortunately this will not cause a problem since the secondary sensor does not affect the way the car drives and wouldve worked well enough to tell the ecu the cat is working so no check engine light. but technically its the wrong sensor. the secondary should be the short tipped version without any holes.

i can tell you for a fact when i pulled out my original factory sensors from my 02 civic (i bought the car new and changed the sensors myself at 80k miles), the primary looked like the one on the right with long tip and holes, and the secondary looked just like the short tipped one with the plastic cover. so if your stock sensors both had the long tip, either someone installed the wrong one sometime before you had the car, or the factory installed it wrong. im guessing you didnt buy the car new, so its pretty much guaranteed whoever changed it last put the wrong one in the cat.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

Hmm.....my wife bought the car from a friend less than two years after he bought it with only 40k miles on it. He was a Honda mechanic so I do not think he would make the mistake by installing the wrong part.

I think you could be wrong about the long tip in the cat because you must remember the grommet and wire length is identical. I highly doubt that the cat O2 sensor was replaced with only 40k miles on the vehicle. Not to mention, all the pictures for the Bosch part number displays the long tip as well......

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

I think they sent you the wrong part. I was just on rockauto and all the pics were of the upstream sensor. Even the Bosch downstream showed a pic of an upstream sensor.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

check the pics, definate short tip for the cat. i still have the image in my mind from when i changed the original and was already going crazy trying to make sure they matched what i bought after getting the wrong one first time. i never wouldve put in the short tip bosch if it didnt look identical to the oem, and it did, at least on my car. this diagram is straight from the original honda parts list. the longer one is the primary and shorter tip is secondary. but anyway its not important. that sensor only tells the ecu everything is okay with the cat. has nothing to do with how the engine runs.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...3s5a01_b02.png

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

i could be wrong but its not something i would forget. might have changed for 03 model? im not that old to forget stuff lol

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

I'm old enough. lol. But, you're right- they sent the wrong sensor.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

OK....now I am a little confused. Bare with me please! =)

1) The Bosch 13532 for my primary sensor is WRONG...because the tip is short in length and it threw the P0131 and P0132 codes. Part was removed and replaced with the original I had pulled. Rockauto had sent the wrong part in the right box and I need a new part.

2) The Bosch 13534 for my cat converter is RIGHT....because the tip is short in length. Although it is different from the O2 sensor I had pulled from the cat converter, it is still the correct part for replacement. Rockauto sent the right part.

Not trying to be redundant, I just dont want to talk to rockauto and sound like an idiot! =) Thanks again!

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

correct on both, imo. and the short tip will work just fine in the cat even if there is a different one in there. its not a critical sensor. mine has been fine for over 30k miles without a check engine light. try to install #2 in the cat and i bet you will not have any engine light. just be sure the wiring and plug and rubber pieces are exactly like the old one.

the reason i was given as to why some of these are different sizes is that the cat gets much hotter and the way the exhaust flows thru, you do not want a sensor that is completely in the middle of the exhaust. for the primary you do but not the secondary.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

I have been running the vehicle with the new short tip in the cat converter with no problems since yesterday. It was the wrong part for the primary sensor that caused issues.

Both O2 sensors I pulled where the same in wear so....I think it is safe to say that both can be used in the cat as long as the wiring harness is the same.

Thanks again....ill post back soon when I hear from rockauto!

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

no problem. just send that pic to them so at least they can open the box and check before shipping to you. i updated my tuneup tread with the new info also.

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

Cool man....I did send them the picture and the guy I talked to was a D-Bag. I told him that I think Bosch had made this mistake before and he was like "32 other customers have bought this product without issues."

Whatever, I have had a good experience with rockauto until this incident (and that D-Bag) so I will continue to use them. He definately thought I was trying to scam them or something.....atleast thats the impression I got. Whatever, I am an honest guy.

Glad my picture could help in your thread! It was definately a great write up man, thanks!

BTW.....I got P1457 on the way home today. I cleared it and it didnt come back, but I need to check the lines from the charcoal canister I installed. I hope one of them wasnt dry rotted and I caused a vacuum leak =/

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

Dammit boy, been there.

BTW: I corrected your punctuation. lol

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

LOL....I don't suppose you know the requirements for causing that code do you? Is it a pressure or time variable?

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

Funny this happened to you as well. I purchased the exact oxygen sensor (bosch 13532) from rock auto a few months ago and I too received the incorrect sensor (the fat short tip one).

I emailed rock auto customer service and it took several emails back and forth before the guy understood that I received a sensor that did not match with the model number on the box. Funny thing is that they sent me a full refund (including what I paid for shipping) before I even shipped the oxygen sensor back to them lol I would definitely email rock auto again and demand an exchange or refund.

I ended up purchasing the NTK 24291 oxygen sensor that was like $22. Don't remember the site I bought it from tho.

Left hand side is the part I got from rock auto.

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/9030/photoji.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

EVAP Control System Leakage (EVAP canister System)

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

Still only getting 32 mpg....I am really hoping the primary O2 sensor is what she needs =/

Re: Need help ASAP....issues after maintenance
 

you will get a few more mpgs from a new one, but it wont make a huge difference.