Mazdaspeed Protege: Why Everyone Else Getting Power?
 

Why is everyone else getting power these days? Sentra SE-R, Jetta 1.8T, Focus SVT, Neon R/T, Impreza WRX, Celica GT-S, Matrix XRS? Now, Mazda's Protege which typically had 130hp is now getting a turbo-charged 170hp version, that should put it up with the SE-R, Jetta, Focus.

In addition, it comes with a variety of aftermarket tuner parts that everybody seems to be adding to their cars in the Member's Rides section! 17" Racing Harts rims, Tokico shocks, cat-back, strut bars, Kenwood MP3 headunit, etc.

Take a look at the following article...

Preview: Mazdaspeed Protege

What's even worse is that the ugly PT Cruiser is getting a turbo-charged version also, reported to have 245 ft-lbs of torque and 200+ hp! That is just disgusting...
[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-puke.gif[/IMG]

Damn thats a very impressive list of equipment in that article, cars nowadays are getting better and better and more and more less expensive.

Yeah, most of that stuff is what enthusiasts are adding to our cars anyways. The shocks, low profile tires, rims, MP3 headunits, etc. Looks like they just went through Member's Rides and saw what everyone was doing to their cars!

Also seems like every manufacturer, Ford, Nissan, Mazda are embracing the aftermarket tuner crowd by making the cars they want straight from the factory. Probably at a cheaper price than if we did it ourselves too.

THAT'S IT!!! I'M TRADING MY 2K1 FOR THAT CAR!!!! DROOOL.... :)

But dont forget, all of those cars are [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-puke.gif[/IMG] They dont turn heads like our babies do. Also things like the celica, and protoge, even though they are turbocharged there is not much more you can do to them...

I think heads will be turning when 200+hp PT Cruisers, Neons, Celicas, Golfs, Proteges, etc are around!

As a matter of fact, our heads might be rolling! [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

And remember, there is ALWAYS something more you can do to a car.

for the matter that honda isn't into turding their car or souping it i say we won't see any honda like that.. god i want a z...

<< But dont forget, all of those cars are [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-puke.gif[/IMG] They dont turn heads like our babies do. Also things like the celica, and protoge, even though they are turbocharged there is not much more you can do to them... >>



That car looks sweet, IMO, and on what grounds do you say that car is barf? And not much you can do to them? ROFL, there is ALWAYS something you can do to a car. HONDA"S aren't the oNLY car you can modify...n00b.:shake:

don't forget the Si... it may not have as much power as those mentioned, but it sure can keep up with 'em! honda already has its huge aftermarket base -- the other companies need to produce cars like that to gain the hearts of previous honda owners.

also, the impreza WRX doesn't count -- that car's base price is $10,000 MORE than a civic LX. i heard that the PT cruiser is also coming out with a convertible body style with the turbo engine... and get this: they're trying to categorize it as a TRUCK because it can't meet passenger-car efficiency requirements. hey, chrysler -- i think it's time to ditch the K-car engines and build new ones!

Don't buy into that "TUNER LOOK" that everyone is trying to capitalize on...All these companies are trying to tap into the whatever is underground with the kids and rape it for money...just like music, fashion...etc...in the end fads will pass and the quality will uphold, GO HONDA GO!!!! they make cars not "TUNER YOUTH CULTURE CARS"

Mazda=FORD

My MX-6 came out of the same factory that the probe did. Of course, you couldn't tell me that when I had my MX-6. :)

C'mon Alpha....Mazda = Ford?!

Mazda is owned by Ford, and they share one or two models.
They had the Probe/MX6 and the Ranger/B2300 pickup truck.
Do you think the forthcoming RX-8 is Ford?

By your logic:

Lamborghini = Volkswagen
Volvo = Ford
Aston Martin = Ford

The civic has the Si which makes 160 NOT turbo charged, which means someone can put a turbo on that baby easier without spending the extra money for the stupid stock one. I look at it this way. These car companies are increasing their engine sizes (ie. the 6 cyl tiberons, jettas, gtis) to make more horsepower. But they aren't make enough of what the engine has to offer. if Honda can sqeeze 220 out of naturally aspirated RSX type S from a 4 cyl engine, and all these other car companies are putting v6's in for only 180hp, i feel u are just wasting gas! Just my 2cents.

The other guys are trying to sell you a package. What happens if you don't like their wheels, exhaust, and all the other gadgets they put on there. Plus, if you are getting all that stuff for less, the money came out somewhere else to pay for it.


Honda gives you a good base car to start with, the si. It doesn't have all the gadgets and great big wheels and body kits and exhaust so you can customize to your liking. Plus, you have an excellent chassis and powerplant to work with.

You know what???

I'm sick an tired of people sticking up for 7th Gen Civics. Yes, I am aware Honda makes good reliable cars. Yes I know you can soup it up to make lots of horsepower. And yes, I know it looks good.

But face the FACTS people. Our cars only make 115HP and 127HP. Our "hotrod" version is going to make only 160HP. We can be spanked by Toyota Corollas, nevermind cars like Celiga GT. And keep dreaming against GTS. And other "170+HP" club cars.

Right now, honda is lagging behind. Not only is it being stated by import tuner magazines, it is even being stated by mainstream media, like Car & Driver.

Is Honda fnished? Far from it. Can Honda turn it around? Of course. Bring in the Type-R's. What the fu*k are they waiting for? I have no idea. I guess they want to sell the 160HP version first, then come out with it later so people can trade those in for the new ones.

It's true. Honda has neglected Honda. They've given all the sporting technology to Acura. Besides the low-volume S2000, what does Honda really have in its line up? Our Civics? I don't think so. Even the aftermarket people are not thrilled by it. Accord? Good market, but hardly a performance car. Still gets beat by a V6 Camry, and gets smoked by the Altima. Not to mention GM's 3.8L. Prelude is dead. CRV? It's a cute ute. Slower than RAV4 anyway, despite its 160HP engine. I guess that pretty much leaves the scene with Oddyess, the minivan. Well, that is probably Honda's sportiest vehicle, with good handling for its class and 240HP engine. ...........

Now have a look at Acura. Class-leading RSX Type-S, class-leading CL Type-S, class-leading TL Type-S....... NSX will always be respected. RL is over-dated (4-speed auto at this time? come on), and is coming out with a new one. Acura promises to be a class-leader, just like their other cars. The 1.7EL, well, it's a Civic, so you know where it belongs. But it's cheap, and if you want leather in a Civic..........

I remember Honda about 8 years ago. They were *THE* shieet. Weren't they?? Prelude SR-V making 190HP... Integra GS-R making 170HP... the Accords blew Camrys away. Civics were the fastest econobox on the road... became so popular... Honda was building that major sporting image, like BMW does right now. Then they decided to cash in on it, and sit back and relax. But you can't get lazy in this car business. You snooze, you loose. It's sad that in a Honda fourm that people are dissing Hondas.

Yes speak it like it is. Everyword you said is completely what i feel, if honda doesn't step up and improve their stock base cars, then i'm moving onto something better. Civic SiR with 160 and NO turbo charged, i'd go for the 03' protoge for the 170 turbo charged verison and it's definately going to be CHEAPER than the SiR, come on, 25,500 CAD + freight pdi? gimme a break, not counting the 14.5% gst/pst tax on top!. 170 hp + turbo charged engine with 17" nice look'n rims + ultra low profile racing tires, macpherson suspension, #2 in track handling, and + you can add MORE AFTERMARKET bolt ons to give it more power. Now tell me that's not something that is grabbing you. Otherwise it's just a lie.

Well said O1Coupe.

And it doesn't help when Honda is trying to turn people down for warrenty claims if they see a car with mods on it. They'll blame it on the mod causing trouble and won't admit the problem. Don't they forget how well their car used to work with aftermarket performance parts and that brought them the sporty image they are enjoying today. With that kind of attitude I can see more enthusiasts turn to something else in the future.

<< Well said O1Coupe.

And it doesn't help when Honda is trying to turn people down for warrenty claims if they see a car with mods on it. They'll blame it on the mod causing trouble and won't admit the problem. Don't they forget how well their car used to work with aftermarket performance parts and that brought them the sporty image they are enjoying today. With that kind of attitude I can see more enthusiasts turn to something else in the future. >>



Well said, not only that, Honda doesn't realize that even with the aftermarket addons the actual addons which doesn't directly affect the damaged area they still won't fix it. Like adding shocks and there's a problem with the engine, they blame the aftermarket shocks. Retarded if you ask me. My engine rumbles when there's lotsa rain and they can't/won't fix it even after bringing it to 3 different dealerships to have them look at it.

I completely understand ur points. Honda has been laggin in giving power to their cars. Besides some of the cars in Europe (civic and accord type R's) there really isn't much here. It seems like they have been focusing all their energy on making hybrid cars while giving all the good stuff to acura. I wasn't defending Honda, i was just bringing up the points that these other car companies might be making fast cars but at what cost? The RSX and the Si, get better gas milage than most cars in their classes because they aren't turbocharged or 6 cylinder. Granted they have limited torque. It seems like Honda is trying to make the best of both worlds, giving power, but at the same time giving good gas milage. Sometimes that always doesn't work. If you want power u get a gas sucking 5.0 mustang, if you want fuel economy u get a low horsepower hybrid, which honda is winning the market. Now take the soon to be released dodge razor. It come stripped with nothing and has turbo charged engine. That is what a real tuner car is! Dodge gives u the body and engine, u do everything else. It is, however, an american car.

<< ...If you want power u get a gas sucking 5.0 mustang, if you want fuel economy u get a low horsepower... >>



Yes! [IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

That's why I have
1) a 5.0 Mustang (power)
2) a 2k1 Civic (fuel economy)

I drove my Mustang daily for 10 years before deciding I wanted a different daily driver. Maybe it happened when the A/C died on me. I live in Miami, FL!



<< It is, however, an american car. >>



No need for a "however" there! :)


Seriously, though, some people need to accept the fact that the Civic is an economy car. It is not a "sports car." You can make it real pretty with a body kit, rims, paint job, etc. If you so desire, you can turn it into a little rocket. You can do the same things with ANY car. Enjoy your car, and don't worry if other people's car is faster or more powerful. If you want YOUR car to be faster, you have to do something about it.

I've had my 1990 Mustang LX 5.0 since 1991. It was a fair performer for it's day. It was quicker than just about anything at the time, and had fair handling. Now, there are plenty of cars that are faster, handle much better, BRAKE much better, AND are much more comfy, but I like MY MUSTANG and that's that.

Do the same with whatever you drive.

Have fun!

The SiR gives decent power at a HUGE cost. $25,500CAD + freight/PDI = $26,350 + tax. That's not my idea of money well spent.
The 2003 protoge 5 is estimated to be under $20,000 CAD.

*all amounts are in Canadian currency

When your looking at the 25 to 30 thou range, its time to start looking at what Mercedes, Acura, and BMW have in the pipe.

As for my mazda=ford statement, it is very accurate, especially when their cross models share the same parts. I don't see Chrysler throwing it's engines into the AMG series benzes.


Well, Acuras stuff would be in the same quality line as Beemers low end stuff, and Benz offers their 230 for 26,000 bucks.

"When your looking at the 25 to 30 thou range, its time to start looking at what Mercedes, Acura, and BMW have in the pipe. "

Acura isn't exactly in the same class as BMW, and Mercedes. Acura is probably the cheapest luxury mark out there, which isn't a bad thing, but the cars definatly aren't as good as those made by BMW or Benz that cost 10k more.

<< You know what???

Accord? Good market, but hardly a performance car. Still gets beat by a V6 Camry, and gets smoked by the Altima. Not to mention GM's 3.8L. Prelude is dead. CRV? It's a cute ute. Slower than RAV4 anyway, despite its 160HP engine. >>



You don't know what your talking about. The new CRV will kill a Rav4. Even the old CRV beat the Rav4 from 0-90mph(look in the Car and Driver comparo) And the Accord V6 doesn't get beat by the V6 Camry. My buddy drives a 98 EX V6 coupe and it will take out a solara (200hp) and a Lexus ES (210hp). GM's 3.8L, unless it is supercharged, will fade into the rear view after 60mph. The 3.8L has terrible top end. Sure the altima beats it but your forgetting about its problems (see car and driver comparo - cheap interior for one). Honda is selling cars from a quality standpoint, Nissan from a power standpoint -- all the same, it doesn't mean Honda is falling behind

one thing that needs to be taken into consideration: RESALE VALUE

resale value is probably one of the better ways to judge how good a car is and how well it will hold up over the years. for the MSRP of an EX coupe, I could've gotten a 2001 Mitsubishi Eclipse GT with about 15k miles. Why didn't I? Because they get problems. Some guy in my neighborhood got a new beetle, and he just got his plates a few weeks ago, is already having to go back to the dealer because of a blown turbo. Are ya'll trying to compare our Hondas with BMW's? Price of a 3-series (the CHEAPEST BMW) = 2 Civics!

Look at how much every Honda (except the Passport, which is an Isuzu anyway) goes on the used car market? You frequently see 2-3 year old Civics for about $10-12k US. 2 year old Accord V6's still go for a little under $20k, etc. The Mazda Millenia, on the other hand, costs about $30k out the lot, but immediately drops 1/3 of its value after a year.

Face it, our cars are built to last, not for a few cheap thrills.

You guys need to remember that young people wanting fast compact cars are a very small percentage of the people buying them. I think most people buying civics are in the 35-45 age range, I can't rember the exact statistic. People don't buy hondas for power period. Never really have, probably never will. The prelude failed big time. The accord is still faster than the camry and no corolla is going to smoke a vic ex for whom ever made such an ignorant statement.

The Accord V6 is faster than Camry V6----once the speed picks up!! In light to light situtation, like most street races are, Camry is much faster. Credit to the much more aggressive and responsive tranny, that lets Camry burn rubber at will. If you've owned both automatic Toyota and an automatic Honda, you would understand.

As far as Rav4 vs CRV, the Rav *IS* faster. Drive them both side by side and see... actually, Auto World did a comparo test of 5-speed Rav4, vs 5-speed CRV vs Freelander vs Escape.......... guess who was the quickest 0-60mph? Rav4.

<< The Accord V6 is faster than Camry V6----once the speed picks up!! In light to light situtation, like most street races are, Camry is much faster. Credit to the much more aggressive and responsive tranny, that lets Camry burn rubber at will. If you've owned both automatic Toyota and an automatic Honda, you would understand.

As far as Rav4 vs CRV, the Rav *IS* faster. Drive them both side by side and see... actually, Auto World did a comparo test of 5-speed Rav4, vs 5-speed CRV vs Freelander vs Escape.......... guess who was the quickest 0-60mph? Rav4. >>



Accord is faster to 60. I owned a 00 ex-vl for almost 2 years. The camry is not up to the accord yet. Oh, and I never had any problem lighting the tires up. If you didn't get off the line just right they would spin like crazy and forget about even moderately hitting the throttle when the streets are wet.

this is funny, this whole post is...im not trying to offend anyone, BUT

we are comparing these so called "tuner cars" the turbo protege 5 is gonna be about 20 k US &lt;NOT CANADIAN!&gt;!
the turbo'd PT cruiser is off the scale in price, like 30+ k US!!! I dont understand how this car fits into this comparo, but whatever....
the celica GT-S with 180 HP
the sentra SE-R
the NEON SRT
the WRX IMPREZA

and you compare the civic to these????
UMM hello, price differences??
lets make it a level playing field....umm say RSX type S umm, yeah, there yo go!!!
and dont forget a neon is still a neon and a subaru is still a subaru &lt;SH!T quality control&gt; and if you dont beleive me, if you ever sit in one, roll down the rear windows and see how far down they go, then compare them...... not even clsoe to one another..... and the clutch, lol its having hydrolic problems galore!

RF Bwoy

and the the 4 banger camry takes the accord no problem
the 6 on the other hand goes to the accord.....

BUT have you sat in both cars, the camry is so much more a mid size family sedan than the accord is. The camry's refinement is unparalled in its class, yeah so what you got the FAsT as SH!T ALTIMA...have you ever looked at the interior materials in one, its like driving a GM, ok nuttins that bad, but you get my drift!!!

Rav 4 owns the CR-V, hondas got some styling issues with the CR-V, it looks like crap, i see the sante fe being more appealing than the CR-V