I guess the car has to sound right and shift smooth. When you down shift and the rpm's are high the car sounds loud. I guess it could be bad for your gear box and engine. When you engine break the rev's are high. I think revving you engine high also decreases the life of your car.

You're changing the subject, the point of contention was not whether or not the engines had brakes, it was if it was called engine braking

Look at your first post:
So you were still wrong in saying that, because type in caps and curse all you want, it's called engine braking.

"Dont start with me. ill finish it."

Is that supposed to sound cool? What's there to start? The only thing that needs to finish is your ego, which is trying hard to cover up the fact that you made a mistake and can't admit it.

-Aki

http://www.tcsracing.org/doubledeclutching.htm

Here's a link it talks about double declutching, I found it useful.

I talks about rev matching before down shifting, from my brief experience with the technique, the gears are shifintg smoother.

It also mentions a little thing about engine braking. It indicates that engine braking occurs when the revs are too low for the particular gear your in.

What about for auto tranny?

For an auto you can't control your car.

The linked page mentions that double de-clutching is better for your transmission in that your synchros don't get worn.

Using engine braking is useless 90% of the time. I only use engine drag down hills, or to make slight corrections in speed. Use your brakes to do slowing down. Thats what they are there for.

Well Heel toe combined with double declutching is the way to go. You brake and rev and you switch into the appropriate gear.

I use the brake mostly. But if I need to stop FAST; ex: Cops, emergency stop, Then I'll use both brake and the engine.

yo yo yo

omg, i actually forgot that im the one who created this thread in the first place..

ANYWHO....i actually stop doing engine brake.....um....actually right now im killing my brake pad...cos' now i always use brake pad to brake my car......no matter how fast im....ha ha ha..

why? cos' i wanna change my stock pad with AEM Nissin + Brembo blank when the pad's gone....

that's why...

but....my behavior of doing engine brake still comes out sometime...though..

Its not a good reason to be wearing out your brake pads. The AEM brake kits I'm guessing wear out the pads quicker since they are performance brakes. Its always good to change your driving habbits for the better.

no, actually AEM Nissin's life is better than stock..

well2.....now, my question for you, what is the better driving habit?

a. brake with brake pad..
b. brake with brake pad + engine brake..
c. use engine brake, then brake pad...

i think it's better to eat up the brake pad than burning the clutch...
clutch's more expensive and hard to replace than brake pad....

quoted from nindoo:
"Its always good to change your driving habbits for the better."

but still, my question (already asked on this thread), which one's better? how about ur style? what is the best style?

I do all three, depending on the situation

For racing and just putting around town...
If its a corner that I will down shift for, then its B (heel Toe shifting)
if its a corner that I dont have down shift for then its A

for just coming to a stop..
If I'm coming up to a Red Light its C (I down shift all the way to 1st, Heel Toe shifting again)
if its on the free way then its C also (Depending if I still need to Brake)

If its an Emergency its A

Like I said earlier in the thread

" as long as its done properly (By Rev-matching) then Downshifting has little to no effect on the longevity of the Clutch/transmission"

Well its better to take care of the tranny thats definately true,

If your double de clutching your not wearing out the synchros in your transmission. In terms of burning the clutch I guess you should avoid pressing the the throttle while your clutch is in.

For the brakes, If you have the 4 piston calipers, you need to get the high performance aem brake pads. I'm still under the impression that the stock brakes last longer in day to day driving where as the AEM performance brakes with the bigger rotors deliver better braking.


Zzyzx isn't it better to rev match and double de-clutch when down shifting then down shifting without double declutching(rev-matching or over revving). Gear box seeems to slip into gears smoother.

What about downshifting an auto from D to D3? Does that harm the engine or transmission?

Double Cluching includes a Rev-match..... but Double clutching is slower then just a straight Rev-matched downshift. and with modern syncroed gear boxes, double clutching isnt really nessisary. But if you want to get the Absolute Longest life you can out of the syncros then double cluching will let you do that.

you shouldnt really downshift that much until youve mastered the art of rev matching, other wise youll just increase wear and tear of your clutch.

This man knows what he is talking about. If you dont rev match, then you are going to wear your clutch out faster! I rev match, no matter if I'm in my cousins Geo Metro, or my car.

Respect

yep yep.

oh yeah....i think, AEM Nissin brake pad + brembo BLANK is not a combination of brakes for sport driving....they're just like normal OEM brake.....just with better compounds and quality....

Zen_master did you actually read what I wrote, there is no doubt that performance brakes will give you a better handle on your car. I said that higher performance brakes with the bigger rotors like the ones your describing use up the brake pads faster. Its only logical ask one of the racing buffs that are in this thread. In particular ask Zzyzx. The brakes on a honda s2000 don't last as long as thr brakes on a honda civic. In fact the s2000 requires more maintenance in general. Performance brakes wear the pads faster. bigger rotors more pistons must wear the pads faster. On top of that the material used in the performance pads must wear quicker to allow you to stop faster.

yes nindoo, i did read your thread..

i was doing a research dew days ago about these pads and rotors..

from what i know....(correct me if im wrong), brembo blank's got the same size as OEM's rotors....and if what dezod's (one of the member who got an online store) saying is right, the AEM Nissin pad wears better than the OEM.....in the sense that in the combination with brembo blank, it wears out slower and cleaner than the stock one..

again, correct me if im wrong....

however, if i use the brembo sport rotor with drills and slots, the pads will wear out faster and tends to crack in the end....

how's that, am i correct? correct me if im wrong....especially because of the AEM Nissin's pad material which is ceramic kevlar...which wears out slower....and better..and cleaner.....am i correct?

its entirley possible to have pads that both wear and perform better then stock while producing less dust. Its just a question of the material and cost. I havent looked at the specific pads in question but from my experiance with nissin motorcycle pads it seams plausable that their car performance pads would out-perform stock pads in every catagory, except for cost.

I can believe that the brakes will last longer because what your mentioning sounds logical Thecheat. Based on what your saying Zen_Master your brakes sound very "high quality".

The topic on the braking arose because Zen_Master said he didn't down shift because he wanted to wear out his OEM brake pads. Which I thought wasn't a good reason for not wanting to down shift properly. If he could keep them in good condition you could even sell them you can even try on this website since he getting rid of the whole brake system(I'm guessing).

I mentioned its always a good thing to learn how to drive the car properly (I'm not saying I'm an expert I am also learning) because once you learn how to drive smoother you’ll get more out of your car. If your wearing out your OEM brake pads quickly you will probably wear out your high end brake pads quickly (maybe a little less quickly than OEM) which cost I'm guessing a little more than OEM pads.

The thread was about downshifting, and I'm all for down shifting using double de-clutching with rev-matching.

what the hell is this engine pad you speak of? the cluch wont wear too much from downshifting unless your really harsh on the engagement, but your synchros will hate you if you arent rev matching... think about it.. $500 + for new synchros which youd have to have a shop do vs $20 brake pads you can do yourself in 20mins. rotors too i guess, 40 each we'll say which you can do yourself as well.. and on a side note..whatever happend to using proper english?

oh by the way..its called downshifting.. unless your trying to impress the kiddies at taco bell with your super cool ricer lingo..

This must be harmful to your car. It might be best to buy a car with a manual transmission.

Are you talking to me?

Thanx nindoo for your replies,

well2...let'see...

i said that i didn't down shift because of several reasons,
one reason is that i want to get rid of my OEM brake pad + OEM rotors....cos' right now im at 26000 and the 25000 driving was not done by me....it was by the previous owner...

now, i wanna get rid out this oem set (pad+rotor, not the caliper) because i wanna get the new set (AEM Nissin+brembo blank) from dezod or my friend.....

and from what u said, hehehe, maybe my "set" sounds like really like a cool set...but it's just a standard "better" upgrade compared to OEM's set...

okay,

when i said that i stop doing engine brake doesn't exactly means that i stop doing that totally...NORMALLY, before i wrote this thread, i ALWAYS engine brake (PLUS REV MATCHING) every time i brake my car......from high speed, low speed, etc etc.....i always use my clutch and assist my brake pad while braking my car..

however, i realize that it's not entirely ok to do that all the time.....that's why right now i do engine brake whenever i feel it's necessary......a situation like when i want to brake from high speed to 0 (red light).....etc...moreover, i also want to get rid of this old OEM set...and install the new set......

i doubt that anybody wanna buy a used set of OEM rotor and pad....

after installing the new pad and rotor...i'll most probably use the "combination" style of braking that i mentioned before... =)

anyway, a set of AEM Nissin and Brembo blank doesn't cost that much..
$50 for the brake pad, driver and passenger side
$100 for the rotors, driver and passenenger....
so it's around $150 for both side..... plus $20 of installation cost by my mechanic...

that's why i don't want to mess around with my clutch....
even though i said here that i also do the engine brake properly, doesn't exactly means that i always do it right....sometimes i missed the rev matching...making a "Phroooom" sound coming from my engine...which is bad...

It mostlikly wont do any thing, not even down shift..... I speak from experiance, and assuming most automatic transmissions react the same..... A friend of mine use to autocross a Lancer automatic and when he wanted to down shift he would simply drop the thing in to Low (1st gear) the auto tranny would not down shift untill the RPMs/MPH were low enough for it to be safe for the thing to down shift.

So, I'd say it would be worthless, and most likey the transmission wont even react to the down shift (unless the RPMs and MPH are low enough for it to be safe to down shift)


automatic transmissions are booring.... :mad:

Well Zen_master you have me convinced on the brakes. Is it 150 each side or both sides? I'm asking because I'm pondering the idea of upgrading my brakes based on your analysis. $150 not so bad.

ig im not wrong..

dezod's price is $150 for both side.............

if im not wrong.....but i think its correct....hopefully, hehehehe..

anyway, can you guys explain to me how exactly did you engine brake? step by step, maybe?