127-horsepower 1.7-liter engine to 170-horsepower?
 

Why hasn't anyone done this?
concept civic engine
Id like 170 hp out of my engine, thats enough for me it would be quick enough...
About how much would all this cost to get done?

-custom high-flow intake manifold
-engine head that has been ported, polished and decked
-custom exhaust header
-2" or 2.25" Exhaust - muffler

Hope i posted in the right category, move me if i didn't...

LINK FIXED

I wouldnt mind having 170 hp on my civic.

Not bad :eek: But that color is [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-puke.gif[/IMG] IMO

Is anyone going to go out on a limb and guess on how much it would cost to get that kind of power to the d17?

i wonder if there are any pics of the engine bay?

I looked i couldn't find any....

Ok Ill go first:
Custom intake manifold: ??? mohawkbooms to $600.00 kms's intake manifold
Exhaust: 300-500
Header:200-250
Ported/polished/decked: I have no idea! someone's gotta know this (what about just ported/polished)

i guess my question is really how much it would cost for the ported/polished/decked...anyone know

what does decked mean? never heard of it before

VTECHUNTER explained it to me

thats kinda old news.

and its not cheap.

thats one sick vix

if you look closely at the pic where it shows the rear it looks like it has a civic type r badge on it,and also on the pic of the interior, where u can see the shifter column....anyone else notice this? well anyways thats a sweet looking civic, im really like the gold, carbon fiber, and black headlight and wheels theme, really goes together well....as for your question on the price of port/polish/deck for the head, i am not sure of the price, but vteckiller explained it pretty well...

yeah this place quoted me 1,000 to get my car ported and polished, ill be doing this after i get a better manifold

That is a really sweet ride, I have read about it somewhere b4. That would knock the socks off a SiR/Si or maybe even the base rsx. You gotta admit, the rsx skirts look pretty sharp, along with the 4 wheel discs and black rims. Not bad at all, now all we need to see is the price.

if u in cali..i know a shop that will port and polish ur intake and exhaust manifold and bored your throttle body for 600..just pm me or let me know if u interested

Yeah, it says... ConceptR

That is a sweet civic. I like the interior and that rear spoiler is tight!!

yea, cap yoda is right. that car was in the 2001 SEMA including the concept RSX. Honda fabricates its own parts for these applications or finds a manufacturer that makes it accdg. to Honda's specs w/c is very costly and it won't be the same with aftermarket stuff

so im gonna say 1500 to 2000 to get this done. Think its worth it?
I might save for it or everything individually.....

.

Billet Cam (custom) $800
High Compression pistons and rings 11:1 $660
Port work: $900(must be properly done for maximum air velocity. Not just bigger holes)
Intake manifold $350 from any decent shop to make you a good plenum style intake.
Headers/exhaust $750
Cam Gear. $125?
Jet Chip or other ECU reprogramming $250

$3800 plus another $500 for dyno-tuning.

I love almost all about it. Except the fact that inside it has a foglight switch, and there's no foglights on the front. Oh well, I'd take it for the HP and the brakes.

omg that sounds like you will get a ton of hp out of that setup:tup::tup: Looks like you can lower the header and exhaust price to about 400....and if you get hooked up you can get port work for about 400

I like the inerior work but ir is just the wrong color all around.

So, the website claims 170 hp... but what data do they give you to back it up? Think critically about claims people make on their set-ups. If it seems too good to be true, it problably is.

The V-Tec system does an excellent jog of raising volumetric efficiency. The VE may be 85-90% for a reasonalbe good range of rpm, say 4000 to 6000 rpm, and then drops off to, let's say, 75% over the last 1000 rpm.

So from the Honda website we see that the hp is LX / EX 115 @ 6100 / 127 @ 6300. Well, for the EX, the VE is still quite good at 6300 rpm... let's say 80%. Now, porting, polishing, manifold changes, cold-air intakes and the like give us what... VA, volumetric efficiency. However, they cannot give you more than 100%. Realistically, getting past 95% is for big budget race teams only. (turbocharging will develop over 100% VA due to enthalpy).

So, to move from 80% efficiency to 95% VA earns you 15%. And 115% of the factory 128 hp is 147 hp. That is less than half-way to the claimed 170 hp!!! However, 147 hp in the hands of a notice may "feel" like 170, 200, 225... whatever. Also, the engine will sound extreemly "throaty", because you are hearing the air rush through the engine... Unhook your airbox from your throttle body and take a two-minute drive... you will be amazed at the difference in engine sound... yet you are getting 5% VA improvement max (about 6hp). *Note: don't run your engine for long period of time with the airbox unhooked, get a cold-air intake, it's as close as you'll get to an open throttle body.

..So, this work is somewhere between $2k and $4k... that is roughly $105 to $210 per horsepower. Is this a value to anyone?

do any of you guys realize that 170 hp on our cars is STILL SLOW????

When you compare that to a car like a corvette perhaps. But going from 127 to 170hp is a big jump. It should be fairly quick with 170hp.

CDMX its gonna cost you a lot more than just couple hundred to get 170 hp...i think if it was that easy most members here woulda played it safe and put 2G or so into that set up instead of a Turbo set up or nitrous...being the fact that your suggestion would be all motor...umm...your prices seem to be about right, but custom manifold & polish and ported prob run you a good 1300 just to begin with dependin on the size of the port, plus you dont want jus any machine shop to do it...you want the best b.c. you want good seals etc...so thats more parts you'll need....anyways, I dont even know if our block would be able to hold amount of power like that wihtout needin some type of work itself....plus you gotta think of fuel management thats gonna run you some more cash if you do go with this setup, maybe someone needs to find out what kinda pistons might fit into our cars b.c. that is prob what our cars need..high compression, LOT HIGHER! seems like a good idea to try doe wouldnt hurt...I dont know if our motors stock will ever hit high 14's doe without some type of forced induction...but my opinoion the setup your lookin at would prob run you at least 2300 I would think if it was done right

There's a few factors your neglecting here. Compression, Igntion timing and air flow.

The Intake manifold on the DX/LX engines (same as the vtec's I presume) Would add a fair bit of resistance at 4800rpms up goven only 80% Volumetric efficiency.

Volumetric efficiency only deales with the use of the air that is in the cylinder. If the cylinder is on;y half full of air and 80% Efficient it's great for fuel economy and is still very efficient.

However if say the cylinder is 75% Filled with air at 90% Volumetric efficiency, thanks to new cams, port work and a new manifold. and a good cool air charge for the volume of air. Proper compression and ignition advancement for better fuek use and it's potentially alot more power.

Our engines with the TB's and intake manifold flow only enough air to fill the cylinders with a 40% clean air charge at 6500rpms (given the 1.7l displacement) Given good port work.. no cheap crap done by an mateur with a dremel... port work is a fine art.. High flow doesn't mean crap if the air velocity under pulse is crappy.

New mild cams. and port work, new intake manifold, good CAI will increase the air mass going into the cylinder for some fair gains. 11-15HP. Just adding air volume..not increasing efficiency.

Headers, and Exhaust system will allow more clean air in for another 3-5 Horsies(after prot work the gains will be higher than with a stock manifold). Still just more air. not increase in efficiency.

Gives you a base here of 17 more HP. so we're up to 145. with a VTEC engine (139ish with a DX because of the lower compression).

Now Add high compression pistons, Tune the cam and ignition timing and increase volumetric efficiency.

78% efficiency 145 peak HP. (rough ex) Say Volumetric efficiency is increased to 92% (not unreasonable with dyno tuning and pump gas) 165 Crank HP.

the redline can safely be raised another 400rpms with Hondas balancing and OEM valve train. there's another 6 or 7 HP free'd up provided the TB, Manifold, and ports can flow that well (which they very easily should).


Feel free to argue this all day. GO to any professional engine builder (not local tuning shop) and argue with them...they'll give you the same information. There's alot of track build D16's out there pushing 200HP, but that kind of gain required a sturdier valve train and better balancing, new fasteners, gaskets and a higher redline.

Given what I've listed it fits in with KMS 1.7l Civic with the 9400rpm redline and 12.5:1? Compression pistons and ITB's (more flow just to support the amount air being drawn at 9400)...


Wher'e Joe for feedback [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

at 100%clean air intake at 6500rpms a 1.7: engine will condume 390 cu.ft of air per minute.

The OEM manifold flows around 227CFM Without an intake. Just the OEM manifold with TB bolted on a WOT. This allows for about a 58% clean air charge at 6500rpms. the intake and filter will restrict another 3-4 CFM. with a good CAI.

The engine can be taken up to about 68% clean air withot reliability really being comprimized.

The intake manifold, cams, port work, exhaust, header. will allow for this no problem.

Just given the same amount of efficiency breathing mods will give you 148 HP.

Increase the fuel volumetric efficiency from 83-92% leaves you with 164.

Mind you with the different cam profiles tuned to make power a little bit higher up it will be around 170ish. add another 400rpms add another few horsies.

The same peak numbers can be made with the vtec and non-vtec engines.

The advantage of VTEC in this case is that you don't have to comprimise your low end power anywhere near as much because below the vtec point with the much milder cams you'll still have good low end and a smooth idle..

With a non vtec head, Your idle would have to be around 11-1200rms and would be rough and you'd have little power before 3000rpms (noticably less than stock) and at around 4200rpms where the cam tuning comes into play you'll have a rapid increase in torque and HP right up to redline....Fine for a track car ..useless for a street driven car.

So in other words, the guys that modded that conceptR probably left out a few things they aren't telling us......