D17 Tech Stuff
 

I know the D17 motor is relatively new, but it has been out long enough to presumably find specific data for the engine. I, however, have not been able to find much. I am trying to find such information as rod length, piston compression height, etc. Various piston manufacturers (i.e. Arias, JE), make pistons for other D series motors with the 75mm bore, and there are various aftermarket rods available. It doesn't matter if it is a direct bolt in part, but if it is within grasp of a machinist to alter these parts (i.e. width of the rod's big end), I'd like to find some parts that would make the engine better prepared to withstand turbo and/or a good dose of N2O. Any Ideas? I ask also for my machinist is cheap (my father).

To be honest with you it's a waste of time. Nobody has any plans to put out products to build the D17 iternals. Mainly because the problem lies in the fuel system. Returnless fuel system with ULEV rating. Good luck, but you're not going to find much. Another reason for this is that not many enthusiasts are too fond of the 7th generation civic's suspension setup. I think if your father is a machinist, and you're really serious about doing this you guys should just open it up and do it yourself. by the way there are several members here who run nitrous without rebuilding their internals.

Kinda figured that, but thought it wouldn't hurt to ask. Also, I just saw pictures of an exploded intake manifold on a 7th gen in another forum on this site. Nitrous was said to be the cause. Quite possibly I know less about nitrous than I think I do, but how would nitrous kill an intake manifold? And how could I prevent such an explosion?

simple, you could be getting puddleing of both fuel and n20 in the manifold from the nozzle in the intake. all it takes is one spark and boom, pieces of the engine go flying.

Also, part of the problem is that the pistons and their bores are not perfectly round; they are oval, like on many bikes.

Grey has been researching custom turbo and internals, might want to ask him.

i'm lookin to change my compression from 9:9:1 to 8:8...does anybody make a piston to do this...gude? i'm gonna search now, but just thought i'd pop this on this thread...slowly designing wonderful things for my lil engine

you should have bought an lx then

man, i love it when people respond to a thread with something stupid like.." you should have bought an lx then" thanks for the help, sheesh...

Well honestly, there's not much you can do for lowering a car's compression ratio. In all honesty you should have researched your car before you bought it. If you want something with a low compression ratio, then buy something with it. That's like buying a type R and asking how you can change it to a GSR so that you can turbocharge it easier. It doesn't work that way son.

Your best bet is to get a thicker headgasket, duh?

Once again nookie thanks for your words of wisdom...when i bought my car i was trading in a junk suv and that was the best deal i got...i wasn't thinking turbo or modding it etc...that ever occur to you...recently someone suggested i change my pistons so thats why i asked...obviously they're not available unless custom. but hey, thanks for your wonderful input

Easy down maverick!! just ignore him. I know grey and whiterabbit know alot of stuff. Also boosted knows quite a bit also.

You can run NO2 but you need to be careful when spraying Honda engines are strong from the factory you just need to be resonsible when spraying and all the people that are saying that no one is gonna do anything for the D17 well thats not totally true its just a matter of time before the research comes out and people get with the program and start doing things. Just be patient and watch as they come in....

Hehe, thanks Rob, I'll shoot them a PM...I guess I have a low tolerance for usesless comments on a thread

Allright, I noticed someone mentioned my name. :)

A thicker head gasket is one way to lower the compression. Yep. That's not too much of a problem either. You can buy gasket material and make your own if you're desperate. You'll have to be rather precise though. I don't know how thick the gasket can be? I don't know if there are any consequences with making it thicker? Maybe the seal is worse because it can't be compressed as much? I'de also try getting new head bolts when going with a thicker gasket. That might help seal everything better... Try Automotive Racing Products. They don't have any applications for our cars but maybe the bolts to other civics are the same? You'de have to call them to find out.

This is an interesting read: Non-recommended Swaps
Guess what they don't reccomend for our cars? Just about everything! Haha...

As someone mentioned... Our pistons are oval. So... No pistons for our cars yet. The rods might be swapable betwean older gen civics, but I remember something about the new 7th gens and rod design. They have micro bumps on the parts that come into contact with each other. These micro bumps increase the amount of room for the oil to flow and therefore reduce friction betwean the moving parts. All for the amazing gas mileage we get which really isn't so amazing. LOL Wait, maybe that's only on the crank shaft. Damn it, I can't find the article again...

Anyway, I'm pretty much in the dark as well. I would take apart your block and measure these parts yourself. That way you'de know for sure. Then have your father machine you something with a lower or higher compression. Machine some aluminum rods with metal sleaves for the joints. Choose a strong alloy and engineer it to be stronger and lighter than stock. Pretty hard to do IMO, but possible if your father has a complete shop and multitudes of time on his hands. I mean, you can make anything better if you know about physics and how things work together. You either need experiments or simulations to know if your "improvement" is really an improvement. This just takes so much knowledge that I doubt you can get it done with your father. Even if you had all of the measurements the production of these parts will be hell. How are you going to make bumps that are so small that they can't be seen? How are you going to measure everything with such precision as to get a 11:1 compression ratio instead of a 14:1? I just don't see this as feasable.

i read in a magazine awile ago about juns 2k1 civic. they developed camshafts and im pretty sure they mad pistons for it to. i dont know if they are going to market these things anytime of if they are out yet but it could happen.

also in the mag there was a concept of our car. it said that it had a worked version of our engine that produced 170hp. it didnt tell what was done but my guess is that there were different camshafts, pistons, rods and some other things done to the engine to give it that extra power. but i dont really know

the mag was a previous edition of honda tuner. has a blue rsx on the cover and says acura attack.

Oval Pistons?!?!?! I have the service manual for the 2k1, it lists bore dimensions, piston diameters, and out of round limits. It says nothing about oval pistons, nor does it give numbers to indicate that there are oval pistons. I've seen Honda motorcycle engines with oval pistons, but not the cars. Maybe I'm wrong, but an oval piston would have two numbers listed like 75mm x 84mm, or something, a single number would indicate a round bore.

The Jun civic didn't have new pistons. It had a new flywheel, crankshaft. Not camshaft. Some other things as well. The flywheel and the camshaft were the most notable IMO. The concept civic does produce 170hp, but not the way you say. Read about it here: Concept Civic Forget which company, but they're making new pistons for our cars. THey will be mass produced in December. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

Hmm... If you say so. I don't know why the service manual doesn't say that they're oval? Here are some quotes:

yeah i was tryin to find the magazine before i wrote something but i couldnt so i wrote what i thought it said but thanks for clearing that up for me

To lower the compression DON'T get a thicker head gasket! If going FI you could get more detonation than with a higher compression raito because of the change of the combustion chamber. The best way is to get new pistons with the same height but with a dish in them OR machine the original pistons and create a dish in them if there is enough material to do that of course!

So Lower cr has more of a chance of detonation?

hahahahahaha! Maybe you should do some research before you post stupid sheit like that!

The easiest way to lower cr is a thicker head gasket or a shim, lower cr means less chance of detonation, not more.

Give your head a shake!!!

[IMG]i/expressions/laugh2.gif[/IMG]

grey, the jun civic DID have a new camshaft. I called them and it is available if you have ALOT of $$$!

black2k1vtec: Yes and no! Note that I said _could_. And the best way to lower the compression ratio IS to get different pistons! You lover the compression to minimize the risk of detonation. But when changing the squish volume in a chamber by getting a thicker gasket you could get less turbulence among other things.

I rest my case. Read what you wrote, admit your wrong.[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

Can't we all just get along? I started this thread to get as much info on the D17 as I can. I'll admit, pretty much no one has enough miles on a 2k1 to require a teardown and rebuild, but when the time comes, I'd like to have some information on how to make it a better engine. I think Honda built this motor with a few tricks in mind, I'm just trying to figure out a way to unlock them. I grew up on modifying Chevy 350's, and a few of the comments I threw out were based on some of the tricks on them. I'm new on the import scene, and was just wondering if some of those theories would work on Hondas. This is my first import, I love it sincerely, but by nature, it will not last forever, it will need rebuilding. JUN will wait until it's technology is perfect, I'm just like everyone else trying to find a solution to pull some power out of something that hasn't been perfected yet for the rest of us.

Yeah, I knew that the Jun Lemon Civic has a new camshaft in it. It's already out though? That'de be nice to have. Hmm...

I don't have an Idea if the D17 has oval or round pistons. but I would like to know if your D17 has how many stages if VTEC? since here in (Phil.) it is posted by the manufacturer to have 3 Stages. and yes Indeed it has 2 solenoids hanging at the left side of the Engine. I'm wondering do you guys have the same engine there? I mean our 2k1 here doesn't have an 02 sensor so I'm kinda in the dark here and not knowing what engine do I have here.[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]

black2k1vtec: Fine! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

But I do not admit I'm wrong if you read my second post I'm not taking anything back just trying to explain my point.

And the fact remains you CAN get more detonation with a lower compression.

Besides I honestly don't know how a small change in our engines would be. It could very well be fine and then we would both be right [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

But don't telle me to research. How do you think I came u with this?

[QUOTE]Quote
[hr]Originally posted by: Grey
Allright,
Guess what they don't reccomend for our cars? Just about everything! Haha...

As someone mentioned... Our pistons are oval. So... No pistons for our cars yet.

OUR pistons are not oval they're round I know because I did the gude head.