Rep Power: 0

I was wondering if anyone has found a upgraded front sway bar for our civic's that are around 30mm? Right now I can only find a 27mm for the front which I don't see as much improvement from the stock 25.4

 
Rep Power: 419

Check this out: Sway Bars (aka Anti-roll Bars or Stabilizer Bars)
A 27mm sway bar is 127.7% stiffer than a 25.4mm sway bar if everything else is the same. The front sway bars are hollow though, so the calculation is slightly different. I don't know the wall thickness though, so I didn't calculate it that way...

 
Rep Power: 0

The only place I would think of looking is King Motorsports. There Type-R rear is 25 mm. You do not need anything bigger than that in the front. You will not need it unless you get some more weight in the front like a bigger engine.

 
Rep Power: 368

as it stated above... thats well over 100% in stiffness increase. just cuz its 1.6 mm more doesn't mean its not stiffer.. sway bars rate increase dramatically over small mmm increase... its tying your LCAs and wheels together, afterall.

I dont think we need anything more on front. the rear can use some work though. choose from 19, 22mm... I pick 19 cuz I want to fit an exhaust later. and 22 for me was overkill at the time.

 
Rep Power: 380

the question is, why would you want to upgrade the front? do you plan on enlarging the rear Anti-sway bar too?
The reason for this is, if you make the front Anti-sway bar larger, you will increase our cars natural tendency to understeer. If you enlarge both the front and rear proportionately, you can reduce body roll while maintaining the cars handleing characteristics which may or may not be a good thing. If you incerace the rear proportionately more then the front then you can reduce overall body roll and reduce the cars natural understeering. however, Anti-sway bars work by attaching the moving elements of your suspension together. Meaning with a larger bar, your ride quality will suffer, because you are removing the suspensions ability act alone. you are basically turning youre 4 wheel independint suspension in to a "solid axel " suspension. If you are lookin to reduce understeer you should really tune with Springs first. then fine tune with an Anti-Sway bar, because anti-sway bars can only do so much.

 
Rep Power: 0

Hey,
alright heres what im trying to do.
I already ordered a 22mm rear sway bar from progress technology though performance tuning but it's on back order again and they said it will take aother 7-10 days, don't order though then! But anyways I don't know how much it will improve my handle so I was thinking why not just start looking for a front sway bar so if I think it could be alittle better I would know where to go [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 380

Just Curious, where did you find the 27mm one? And do you plan on racing? AutoX not Drag. becaus other wise, the stock 25.4 mm will do just fine if you change the bushings on it. THats what I'm running with. The Progress rear ASW and the Neuspeed Bushing kit. Though I wish there were an adjustible Anti-Sway bar availible for our cars.

cones are your friends.

 
Rep Power: 0

there is a rear adjustable by comptech.......

 
Rep Power: 419

Yep, the Comptech is adjustable. Look up some threads on ClubRSX.com about it. Plus the Hotchkis front sway bar is somewhat adjustable. Again, check out ClubRSX.com for more details. The Hotchkis Tuning website also mentions the adjustability. They mention...

Cool stuff!

 
Rep Power: 0

Yep basically im planning on auto-X my car [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] thats if I ever get the bar. So wait can you upgrade the bushing on the progress tech sway bar? I don't really like neuspeed at all they took forever to get me my X-brace! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG]
hey zzyzx
You auto cross you car right? What all have you add to your car and what add on's do you think help your car the most?

 
Rep Power: 419

The Progress sway bars come with polyurethane bushings. What would you like to upgrade them with? [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 380

Right now I have H&R springs on stock struts (2years now no problems). The Neuspeed Front upper strut bar. some 17' rims (Axis Se7ens) which are way to heavy for autox(wheels alone are 22Lb a piece). this next seson I'm getting a set of 16' 5zigen FN01R-C's they are Light (15lbs) and cheap, though I might get the 15's, even lighter(14lbs) and cheaper. I recently ordered the Progress ASB. but its on back order and if it dosent get shiped by monday I'm going to cancel the order and get an adjustable one. Right now I have the stock Anti-sway bars in, I recently put on Neuspeed front bushings but I havent been able to try them out on the track yet. My advice for some one who has never autocrossed is this: Dont put anny parts on before you get a few autoCrosses in. Wait till you feel that your skills are topping out. then start adding things, one at a time, so you can see how each part affects your handling. As far as one single part that improved my handling? Easy, Tires. A really good sticky set of tires. I highly recomend Falken Azenis Sports, Decent tread life and Gobs of traction. But First run with what you've got. its better to start out with a poorly handling car that teaches you what not to do, then to start with a well handling car that you rely to much on. Trust me on this, I get my *** whooped by a bone stock Tiberon (Runs in HS) every event, The guy has been autoxing for 25 years. you should see him lift that inner rear tire on corners



this is on the same corner as my pick above

 
Rep Power: 419

Whoa!
Nice. Yeah, I agree about the whole skill thing. I'm at the limits of my traction now though, so I know I need an upgrade. Same thing when I upgraded from the stock wheels and tires to my current setup. It took me a while to get a handle on what my car could do after the upgrade. Now I think I've mastered the increased traction that my car has. I crave more! [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG] I need a good front strut bar too. I'm really reluctant to buy any but the Mugen one though since they all look less than perfect. The Mugen one is seriously overpriced though. Anyway... I hate winter, I can't do the things I used to. Traction is much less than before, but at least I'm still riding the limit. I guess that's the only way to go if you want to be fast. Know your limits.

 
Rep Power: 0

Suspension Tech has their bars out. I just looked it up, they have a front bar, and a rear adjustable bar/strut combo. In past expierence, i have learned that ST knows their sh*t. And if they have put together a front and rear bar, then they are obviously meant to work together really really well. Something to look into. I think the set (front and rear combo) is running for about $350. They sell the two things alone as well though. Just thought i would share what i found.

 
Rep Power: 0

I understand what your saying about waitting and knowing your car but I pretty much did that just on the streets. The frist day I got my car I waitted till 1am and then I went around and try to find the point where the car would be going fast but not too fast that it would slide out on me. Ever time I buy something new I do the same thing and now my car can take a sharp turn at 50 with racing line without racing line it drifts at 50. So far I have all the sturt bars but the back upper and soon Ill have a 22mm hopefully. But I would love to autocross it and see if I can do better [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]
Have you got to the breaks yet? if you have what did you do to them?

 
Rep Power: 0

I dunno. IMO, I don't see a reason to upgrade the front especially before the rear. I have no intention of touching the front sway bar. There was more body roll in the front than in the rear after I put my 22mm rear anti sway bar on but the height of the car wasn't to my liking visually... I'm on GC coilovers and stock struts. Anyway, what I did was lower the front more and now, the car is definitely at it's center of gravity. The front sway bar is actually at it's use by eliminating the body roll. The ride quality sucks (from the struts) but the car handles much sharper. I took an onramp that was a 45 at almost 90mph which is twice the speed. I endured some understeer and a thicker front sway bar would give me more? Nah... I'd rather leave it stock. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-wink.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 0

No, you mentioned brakes, well, i havent upgraded yet, but i plan on it seeing as how my rotors are a little on the warped side[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-puke.gif[/IMG], so this is what im doing and recommend, im gettin EBC GreenStuff pads, they are great from what ive heard, leave little to no brake dust, and dont wear at your rotors too bad, the RedStuff are a step up but are better suited for track use because they love to go through rotors. GreenStuff front pads run you $59 on The TireRack (RedStuff are $99). I'll also be getting either Power Slot rotors which are just slotted $79 each(youll need L&R), or Brembo "Sport" Slotted rotors $161 per pair. I may also be upgrading to Goodridge Stainless Steel brake lines.

I recommend SLOTTED rotors over drilled/slotted, or drilled because the the drilled rotors are VERY prone to cracking due to heat cycling. Just ask 5.0 Mustang Magazine, in one of last month's issue they showed a drilled rotor that they had on their autocross mustang, there was a huge crack in it, and they just showed one of about a dozen. Another reason for getting just slotted is that it removes the hot gasses that are greated with heat, but still only slightly reduces the friction surface. See when you drill/slot the rotors you loose friction area(about 9.38%), where just slotted give up only about 4%. hope that helps.

 
Rep Power: 419

Let me just spew forth my brain here. First off, cross-drilled rotors are not prone to cracking if they're actually cast with the holes in them (like the Wilwood kit for our cars). Drilled holes are prone to cracking, but chamfering them reduces the chances. Plus surface area has nothing to do with friction. Did a quick search: Click Here I took physics for two years, so I know...

 
Rep Power: 380

Yes all drilled rotors will eventually crack. wheather it was drilled or cast.

DRILLED VS SLOTTED
The drilled rotor so common on the Porsche 930 turbo is NOT really drilled at all. It is a CAST hole. Porsche did this to help minimize the effects a hole has in creating a stress riser in the surface of the brake rotor. A drilled hole goes directly through and interrupts the grain structure of the metal. Where as a cast hole has the grain structure formed around it in an uninterrupted flow. All holes in a brake rotor will eventually show signs of stress cracking. A drilled hole will crack much sooner than a cast one. Admittedly, a "drilled" rotor will cool better than a smooth rotor, and has slightly better "bite". However, the person who blindly goes ahead and drills his stock rotors is asking for trouble, especially in high heat or severe brake conditions (e.g. 944 Turbo's). It's not unusual for these rotors to eventually crack completely across the surface, causing a dangerous situation. Therefore, it is not recommended to drill unless it is an under-stressed condition (i.e. a 2500lb car with Turbo or "S-4" brakes) or, for a street car just for looks. The best compromise for serious track people who don't want to replace their rotors every season is to go with a "slotted" or gas vent rotor. These vents can be machined in various configurations. A ball shaped cutter is used to prevent any stress risers. The purpose of these vents is the same as the cast holes: to give gases, water, and other dirt a place to go under hard braking. This is the most durable track or race rotor. In general, we recommend drilling our race rotors when the car is under 2600 lbs.

WHAT IS HEAT TREATING / STRESS RELIEVING?
Any manufactured part has some built in internal stress and brake rotors are no exception. If you were to cut through a brake rotor ,from outside dia. to inside dia., the built up stress would spread the opening many times greater than the width of the saw blade used to cut it. This stress is the kind of thing that we are trying to "normalize" by bedding in new brake rotors on the track. Doing this properly is lucky at best. This process is what warps most new rotors the first few times their used. The most effective way to normalize these stresses is to do it in the controlled environment of a heat treating oven. First the heat is applied gradually to the optimum temperature then cooled slowly while left in the oven. All this is done in an "as cast" condition before any machining is done so as to not affect the final dimensions of the rotor. The final machining is then done and you're left with an unstressed brake rotor ready for the track.
HAPPY BRAKING!!

 
Rep Power: 0

hey zzyzx
do you think the neuspeed bushing kit help your handle? over all handling wise how would you rate them? from 1 to 10 [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 380

It felt a bit more responsive, as in less of a "soft" feel when I turned. I havent used them out on the track yet. First time will be on 1/19. Ill tell you more after that. [IMG]i/expressions/beer_yum.gif[/IMG]

Autocross, its not just for breakfast any more.

 
Rep Power: 0

OK, Grey, so youre saying that getting larger rotors has no meaning? What i mean is, weve been told that we get more friction when we get larget brakes, this is reasonable because think of a wheel making one turn, in this one turn, there is more rotor surface area passing through the caliper, in the same motion. so it is reasonable to say that getting a smaller than stock rotor(in exagerated terms), would be have the same effect as drilling/slotting rotors due to the loss of the surface that touches the pad(because the pad obviously cannot touch the surface in the slots)

 
Rep Power: 0

Sounds good to me,
I just want my front to be as stiff as it can be without going out and buying a new sway bar. In my eyes they haven't made a front sway bar to my liking, I just want something so my car dosn't slid out when I don't want it to because im getting that big sway bar for the back. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-smile.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 380

The Progress Anti-sway bar isn't really a race bar. being non-adjustible. Its designed for more performance handling meaning it defintly will be better then stock but it is tuned down so as to not make the car handle dangerously for average drivers.

A Stronger rear anti-sway bar on our cars will give the Front end more traction by shifting more weight to the back of the car though a turn. If the bar is to oversized then it may induce excessive oversteer. which can be a whole lot more dangerous then understeer. If you want to know more check this out.
Suspension Tuning



And in Grey's defence, yes its true that increacing the area of contact does not increace friction. So then how do larger rotors increace brakeing? Easy, Larger rotors allow for larger calipers. Larger calipers allow for Greater pressure. Greater pressure = greater friction. An example. Look at the front and rear brakes of a Lexus is300. The front and rear have approximatly the same Diamiter but the big difference between the front and back are the size of the calipers.

This of course also means that all of those "Big" Brake Kits that utilize stock calipers are pretty much a wast of $$$ because you may have a larger diamiter rotor but the pressure applyed to the rotor under braking is still Stock. so the larger rotor is only for looks and you should have just purchaced a Slotted Stock sized rotor and a better Pad. Sorry for the bad news [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 0

Hey Zzyzx
So wait it not a racing bar, That sucks I thought it was that the hole reason why I bought it [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-sad.gif[/IMG]
Are you basically say that this sway bar will make my car drift easyer? [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 419

Yeah, the pressure betwean the brake pads and the rotors is what increases friction. That and the coefficient of friction of the materials. So high performance brake pads will have a higher coefficient of friction than stock brake pads and they will grip better. Well, some do. Some don't. Some have a higher coefficient of friction at higher temperatures than stock brake pads, so no brake fade when autocrossing. Same with the rotors. Certain rotors grip better than others. I think the ones with a high nickel content grip less. They're nice and shiny for longer, but they grip less. Not sure about that, but I'm just telling you that various materials have various properties.

Plus bigger rotors are better since they can soak up a lot more heat and they dissipate it quicker. Heat causes brake fade, it causes the coefficient of friction to drop because the surface of the materials basically turns into a fluid. That's why they make slotted rotors. When this happens, the slots wipe the brake pads and expose fresh material that has more grip.

Not only that, but the tires make a difference as well. I mean, what good are brakes when you have no grip? Wider tires and grippy rubber are good. Now I know what you're thinkin', why does an increased surface area matter for tires, but not for brakes? I was stumped on this one for a long while too, but I think I figured it out. It's because the road surface isn't as flat as a rotor's surface. The tires not only grip by being flat on flat, but they grip by pushing off of the little imperfections on the road. Asphalt is rather rough, so when the tires spin they dig into the rough spots. That's why tread patterns are so important. The grooves dig into the bumps and helps to push the car along as the wheels spin.

Hope this helps...

 
Rep Power: 380

The reason the Progress bar is not a race bar is because it is not adjustible. It most definitly make your car handle much better then stock.
An adjustible anti-Sway bar, being adjustible allows you to fine tune the handling of the car. with a non adjustible bar, you obviously can't. so in a race situation its pretty much useless. This isnt to say the Progess bar isnt a good product. Its just one that is built for the average driver that dosn't want or dosn't know how to fine tune the sway bar. Meaning For most of us here It is Perfictly good.

 
Rep Power: 0

alright,
But how will the progess sway bar do on a autocrossing track? This damn sway bars is taking forever so im thinking about canceling it
Would a adjustable sway bar be better for autocrossing? what a good company for adjustable sway bars [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]

 
Rep Power: 380

They would do much better then stock. When tuning you're suspension, especially with autcross, typically you tune with the springs first. Then you fine tune with the anti-swaybars. Since most of us are poor[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/IMG] we can only afford one set of springs. So tuning with the springs is pretty much out of the question. So The Anti-Swaybars become our Primary tuning part, and if that part is not adjustble youre pretty much screwed. I was going to get the Progress bar myself but because of shipping delays from Performance Tuning(they nolonger have the Progress Anti-Sway bar availible to buy on their site. It says comming soon) I have reconsidered and cancled the order. I'm going to look around for a good Adjustible bar. So far the Suspension Techniques bars looks good Front & Rear Kit(it makes no mention of being adjustble.) The Hotchkis Swaybars Set here does say that it is adjustible it also says that they are 1" bars = 25.5mm. can any one else find this for cheeper?

I trust Hotchkis a little better then Suspension Tech, but just because Hotchkis has been around for a whole lot longer.

Eventually Ill get this Better safe then Dead

 
Rep Power: 0

Hey Zzyzx
those links arnt working for me so what are there address? Hey thats ok you don't need to send me those bushing