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OK this is very important info for yall to know. This is about the neuspeed sway bar bushings. I have had mine on for about almost 2 months and I have started to notice that right around my sunroof there have been dents on the coners and have been getting bigger and bigger. and you can hear it when you go up a driveway. anda small little incline. Well this is due to the sway bar bushings. IF you do have them or plan on getting them then you must get a front tie bar. This is what the honda dealer told me after they looked at my car and after i told them what all i have had done. Since the bushings are harder the body has more reason to flex in the front especially if your lowered; and without the front tie bar there is alot of movement in the unibody which is causing the sunroof to basically collapse. The honda dealer said the only thing to stop this is to get a front tie bar and lower brace that they sell as an honda accessory. So for all the people that have the neuspeed bushings I HIGHLY RECCOMEND that you get some type of tie bar and other things to stiffen your body in the front. but other then that they work perfect.


Mods if u can make sticky for everyone really appreciate it.

 
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[IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/IMG][IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/IMG]
aw man, I'm gonna have to get that stuff then.

Any part numbers handy?

In the meantime, I might take them out and put the OEM ones back in. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-frown.gif[/IMG]

 
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yeah i wish i would have known myself now my roof has two big dent marks in it. I will look up the part numbers right now. I it s shame neuspeed never posted this info on their site. ok well i found the part for the Honda accessory. Sub Frame Mount i think it is part 11. but that is one of the things honda offers I would reccomend buying if ur going to go with the neuspeed bushings.

 
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you should call up neuspeed... go sue them or something

 
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Yea, sue their [IMG]i/expressions/moon.gif[/IMG]. I've had my neuspeed bushings on my desk waiting to be installed for the past couple months. I think I'm just gonna sell 'em on ebay after I heard that. Thanks!

 
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well im going to go up and talk to honda and see about getting a new car or something. but if not then I'm not to worried about it. Just have to manage. That is the expense I pay for wanting to hook up my car.

 
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yeah, this is some truely usfull info, im assuming that this has to do with all brands of bushings, not just neuspeeds correct?, either way jsut to be safe i think ill get both at the same time.

 
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hey sumama no i would keep them all u have to do is jsut upgrade the rest of the supsension. they are a good thing I love them i would keep them jsut spend the money and get the tie bars.

But yeah I would assume so that it isnt jsut neuspeed taht it would be any other company that has poly bushings. So even if you buy other kind your still going to have to upgrade the tie bars.

 
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ACE, do you auto-X at all, or is this damage from everyday 'normal' driving?

 
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hey well it was from normal driving. but especially going up little hills for like drivwasy and stuff like that where I have to go at an angle is when u can really tell becuase you can actually here the metal bending and creaking it is very loud when it does it.

 
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now i know why aswzero recommend you stiffen up EVERYTHING when you do stiffen up something. i know he does even with lowering springs but i guess those people get away with more since springs have more give then say metal bars.

 
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I read about this in one of the older Honda Tuning books. Basically, the Civic was designed as a mass production car with a rather loose suspension. And the frame or unibody of the car flexed a lot but with the loose suspension and tall tires, it was not an issue.

Now when you start tightening up the suspension, you are basically trying to eliminate the flex from the suspension. This flex is transferred to the unibody. So you start out with new springs and struts along with the tires. Now when you go around corners, you can feel the body flexing. So the first thing to add is the strut bars. These tie in the top angles of the strut towers (more in the front on the 7th gen) and increase rigidity.

Now things get a bit tighter when you add or increase the sway bars. All the flex tries to go somewhere and on our cars it goes to the lower tie bars. On the SCC circuit there have been stories of Honda Civics breaking the rear mounts of the lower arms. The fix for this is to buy and install the tie bars that strengthen this weak area. Basically if you do anything past springs and struts, you should definately add the tie bars when you add the sway bars.

It all comes down to the fact that we do things to our cars that 90 percent of the world would not even try, but as long as some of the better companies make parts, then we will buy them.

 
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if neuspeed doesnt have some sort of warning or disclaimer i'm sure you could sue them and get a new car. or maybe its common sense even then, you've heard of the tobacco guy. when he started smoking, they didnt have warning labels although i'm sure everyone knew it was bad for you, he sue them and got like a couple billion dollars. atleast get them to post something on their site

 
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They all have a disclamer. All these aftermarket parts you put in your car are meant for off road use. I posted something on this last week. you know, for those who like to do things cheaply. The only reason I bought the no name strut bars is so I would not have that problem. And for those who complain that the ride gets rougher with the strut bars... It is better you feel it then the car absorb it and buckle.

I get my Tein Flex hopefully next week. Once I get those installed I plan to get the progess sway bar and Neuspeed front. I could get the RSX JIC front strut(which is a lot stiffer than the neuspeed), but I do not know if it fits. After I had the NEX coils, I put my Eibachs back on. I was handling better with stock tires and sportlines, but the NEX loosened my back end(had a front strut). I need to balance my car at all four corners(more money to spend) b4 I get my roll cage. Oh well, you learn as you go.

 
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when I first lowered my car I could hear creaking everywhere. I went and bought everything I could to help with the body flex. I now have a Neuspeed front strut tower bar, OBX rear strut tower bar, DC Sports lower tie bar, and RSX 19mm anti-sway bar. the creaking went WAY down, though I can still hear a little around my moonroof (unless I have the sliding interior-roof part closed, then i cant hear it creak) and sometimes the area around my glovebox.. at least I think that's where it's coming from. there's also this weird ticking noise I hear above the gauge cluster sometimes, dunno what that's related to.

 
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well I looked all thru the neuspeed website and they dont have anything saying that their products are for off-road use only. So I just sent Neupseed a big email stating everythign that is going on with it and I also refered tehm to this webpage so they can read all of this. So hopefully something will work out. All i asked was for them to post so,ething about this on their site so this does not happen to anyone else.

 
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well i just ordered my neuspeed front tie bar today and I ordered the honda option sub frame brace yesturday so hopefully will have everything by next week and and installed and then i will give yall the final outcome about everything. and I think i wil make a DIY on the sub frame brace install.

 
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Have any of you guys tried sendin an e-mail for tech support to neuspeed? Its like tryin to communicate with Santa Claus... no response...

 
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well all i can do is sit and wait to see if they respond if not then maybe i can call them up and discuss this but i will give it a week. to wait and see.

 
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there is a neuspeed front tie bar???

or do u mean front upper strut bar?

I guess I should put my rear strut bar back on...

geez I cant believe the bushings could stiff it up that much.

tanabe has a front lower bar...

I ordered my Neuspeed Rear Tie bar in APRIL. the shop i bought it from said it was out.. and I have been waiting for it ever since. sheesh.

I wonder should I get a ebay tie bar for the time being.

and I'm wondering about that ROD - SUB Frame.. where does it go? In the diagram it really really looks like a front upper strut bar... hmm.

we had a thread on it awhile back, and I really wanted to get it but dont know where it goes.

 
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well on the diagram all that stuff os for the bottom of the car so when i get it in im going to make a DIY on it and tell yall what i think about and yes sorry for the mix up front upper strut bar.

 
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I think Grey has installed that bar. I'm surprised he didn't do a DIY. [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-confused.gif[/IMG]

 
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ya, i dont really like e-mailing people. a good call b.tching them out is always better , i'm just playing. but ya not too many companies that e-mails seriously so i usually call or even better, visit them if i can

 
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hey well where is the neuspeed company located at? well if grey reads this did u install the subframe brace.

 
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Camarillo, ca
its like an hour from me. i went there last time to get my springs "replaced"

 
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yeah well im going to tell u this right that is a long @$$ drive for me being the fact that I live at the beach next to the atlantic ocean. lol. I live in Virginia Beach Va. so that would one long trip jsut for something like that. not worth my time to go deal with some guys taht probably would just laugh in my face like the dealerships do and then nothing would come out of it just alot of miles on my car and alot of wasted gas. but ehy if u want to go there for me lol.

 
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here's a link on that bar with more info on it from Grey:


http://www.7thgencivic.com/forum/mes...56&STARTPAGE=2

http://www.7thgencivic.com/forum/mes...56&STARTPAGE=3

pretty much a DIY there...

I think I'll get one. It'll be a ____ to properlly install it though.

 
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After reading this thread I have become concerned. I called Neuspeed and asked about this problem. Thus far, they are unaware of this happening. The gentleman I spoke to also stated that the front sub-frame (where the bushings are located) is not hard-mounted to the rest of the unibody (as many of us know). Therefore, he suggested it would be highly unlikely that merely replacing the OEM rubber bushings with the Polyurethane bushings could cause such unique damage.

The question is: What is the set-up on this car that has these dents near the sunroof. I would suspect that super-slammed suspension would cause something to this effect because instead of the suspension extending and compressing, the vehicle body is now flexing. I experienced this when I was riding on Ground Control coilovers and had my car pretty much slammed over the stock 15" tires. Everytime I'd enter a steep driveway or even up a curb (forced to approach at an angle due to low height of car), I would hear the car creaking in various spots but alway around the sunroof (reduced structural rigidity due to large hole in roof).

I personally have a hard time believing that simply replacing the bushings would cause the described damage but if it can be proven, those of us who have installed them will be having to come up with a "fix" (the OEM front crossbar that I've been reading about seems interesting).

Anyways, more info would be helpful.

Terry

 
Rep Power: 318

I think I may be having the same problem in the rear. I just finished washing my car and look what I found--



it's not very noticable though. after seeing that i inspected the rest of the car but found no other dents. I dunno how long ago that happened.


Here's a timeline:

June 15th: installed my B+G coilovers with the help of a friend. the drop was set at 2.25 - 2.5"

July 20th: installed a Neuspeed front strut tower brace.

August 23rd: installed an RSX anti-sway bar and a DC Sports rear lower tie bar.

October 23rd: installed an OBX rear strut tower brace.

again, I'm not sure how long that dent has been there. my only guess would be it's a combination of having a low drop and no rear strut tower brace for 4 1/2 months. I sure hope I don't come across any more structural damage [IMG]i/expressions/face-icon-small-mad.gif[/IMG]

 
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Okay folks,

Now these dents...anybody think a person or object might have caused these? Geez...I've got a ding in my door..."It must be my bushings".

Starting to seem almost rediculous.

AceKicker, I noticed that your vehicle is dropped quite low (especially since your riding on 17" wheels with 205/45/17 and they're nearly tucked if not tucked). If you look up into your fenderwell with a flashlight, you'll probably notice that you have very little actual suspension travel. My guess is that if you are approaching steep driveways or curbs, you are actually bottoming out 2 of your 4 shocks and thus creating undue force on your car's unibody.

I'm still amazed and somewhat in disbelief that bushings would cause this. I'm prone to think that if caused by suspension mod's, it would be a combination of too much drop and not enough bracing (or possibly bracing in the wrong places).

TJ