When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Hey Civic Forums, I'm a little new here, but I do plan on sticking around for a while!
Last October I got the first car I bought with my own money. She is a 2003Honda Civic LX 2dr 5spd
Her name: RED LIGHTNING
Over the past year I've owned her I've been making small improvements to the way she looks and drives, learning as I go. In the beginning I couldn't even change my own oil, or owned a jack & ratchet it try it myself lol. Well, I bought some busted Integra wheels off the Facebook Marketplace and painted them the best I could, installed some headlight housings, and installed some coilovers on my own. With this newfound confidence I changed the timing belt & distributor on an old CR-V we got for cheap.
Well, I'm happy with how my car looks and feels now. But I'm not satisfied with where its at. I've always felt like the car has been lacking something: speed. It just doesn't have enough power to really feel exciting to drive. Yet. Over the past year of owning her I've been back and forth on what I wanted to do. Everyone online said K-swap, K-swap, K-swap. K20 or K24. 'Its super easy to do on that chassis, you just slide out the old and put in the new and plug everything back up' (Paraphrasing.)
But after a lot of internal debate I've (obviously) finally decided to stick with the D17.
I decided I will be building the D17 for a a few reasons:
The motor is already in the car lol
I'm afraid I will mess a K-Swap up
Even if I blow the D17, K-swap will always be an option, and D17s are relatively cheap
It would be cool to see how far the stock engine could take me
Underdog status
I understand that in the long run the D17 is more expensive to build and that the K-series has way more potential than the D-series. But that's the sacrifice I'm willing to make. I would be able to start on my D17 build today rather than having to wait to do the K-swap in one go, then start building it for performance.
Ultimately, my goal is 300whp or greater when its all said and done. I don't know exactly how to get there but I've got some general ideas on where to start.
Here's my rough sketch for my path towards a 300whp D17 -
Exhaust Swap
I plan on swapping out my exhaust headers for EX performance headers, installing a cat delete pipe, and a catback exhaust. Pretty simple & standard, laying the foundation for future mods.
D16Y8 Intake Manifold
The stock D17 intake manifold is apparently made of plastic and is known to crack under boost pressure. The D16y8 intake isn't direct bolt on but can be with some modifications. I've never modified something like this before so we'll see where we can go with that.
K-Pro D17 ECUw/AEM Cam Gear
I will be choosing the K-Pro standalone ECU over a piggyback system for a couple reasons. The first being, if I decide the D17 life isn't for me anymore and move onto a K-swap, then I already have a core piece ready to swap. Second, it would be much easier to work with than a piggyback playing tug-of-war with the stock ECU. There will be plenty of headaches involved in this journey, I don't want the fuel management to be one of them. This is by the most expensive part of the build.
D17A2 VTEC Head Swap w/ARP head studs
I plan on swapping the D17A1 head for an A2 head for VTEC capability and improved performance. Except for the turbo kit, this is the modification I'm the most afraid of because its the least I know about. I don't understand entirely on how I will be adding VTEC functionality to the D17A1. I also do not know what it means to port & polish a head, and how to take advantage of that. I plan on learning as I go.
I will also install the ARP head studs compatible with the D17 when doing this swap.
D16Y8 Stage 1 Camshaft
Referencing the video beow (cool channel, they have a few EM2s, one of them being a D17 eBay build) and they installed a D16Y8 cam into their D17 to take advantage of three-lobe VTEC since the D17A2 is geared towards fuel economy over performance. According to them, with a little bit of work and with the AEM camshaft gear, the D16Y8 camshaft will fit into the D17A2 head.
RSX Fuel Injectors
Fuel injectors from the RSX (310cc) will be installed for use with the turbo.
Pre-Turbo Baseline
I've seen it floated around on some threads that up to this point, a build like this can bump up the D17A1 to about 140hp. That is what I am hoping for.
Turbo Kit & Tune
After a good foundation is laid out I plan on installing a turbo kit (either pre-made or custom, undecided) and taking it to a local shop for tuning. I am guessing I will put down 8psi since that is what people have floated around as being the highest 'safe' boost pressure available but nothing is set in stone. This is a piece that I only have a rough understanding of and don't entirely understand how I will install it. But, it shouldn't be too hard, right?
Forged Rods & Pistons
Disclaimer: At this point, I have no confidence in what I'm saying. I do not understand upgrading the internals of an engine to this point. I'm just putting this out here for someone to tell me how I'm wrong.
Of course, once the turbo kit is installed and set to a 'safe' boost pressure I'll have to start looking into building the bottom end of the engine. I am looking into forged pistons & rods available for the D17 and getting those installed for higher boost pressures to creep up to that golden 300whp number.
I am open to suggestions, criticisms, and warnings regarding my plans for this. Light me on fire and burn me at the stake if you have to. In all honesty I am a complete noob that is willing to learn and get his hands dirty. I could use all the advice I could get!
CraziCardi
Last edited by crazicardi; Jul 25, 2019 at 02:42 PM.
Reason: Formatting video
Good luck. Not going K swap is very cool as that is the go to for Honda's. I like the underdog thing!!
You might need a Stage 3 cam for those kinda numbers but it has been so long since I researched all this stuff. Josh would be a good resource as he boosted his EM2.
Have you checked out Piano55 build thread? Erf has one too.
When I bought my civic the rsx was nearly double the price. Now you can buy an rsx fairly cheap, and only slightly more than a civic from the same year. I thought I'd have it for 2 or 3 years then upgrade... I'm now 10 years into a build. Lol
I went in too deep to ever return so now I'm stuck, lol.
But if your goals have anything to do with racing, and knowing this build is going to take years and thousands of dollars, I would highly encourage you to buy a better base platform.
Good luck. Not going K swap is very cool as that is the go to for Honda's. I like the underdog thing!!
You might need a Stage 3 cam for those kinda numbers but it has been so long since I researched all this stuff. Josh would be a good resource as he boosted his EM2.
Have you checked out Piano55 build thread? Erf has one too.
I was thinking stage 1 cam would be alright because I heard people were getting stuck at 300whp with a stock or stage 1 cam (I forget which). I will look further into it. And I think I skimmed their threads but I will read them in further detail.
Originally Posted by mac25
When I bought my civic the rsx was nearly double the price. Now you can buy an rsx fairly cheap, and only slightly more than a civic from the same year. I thought I'd have it for 2 or 3 years then upgrade... I'm now 10 years into a build. Lol
I went in too deep to ever return so now I'm stuck, lol.
But if your goals have anything to do with racing, and knowing this build is going to take years and thousands of dollars, I would highly encourage you to buy a better base platform.
Front engine, rwd
Or
Mid engine are ideal for ballance.
Or at the vary least switch to an rsx
I'd rather not buy another car for this. If I wanted to buy a quick car then I'd go to the dealership and buy one lol. But honestly I want the joy of building the car into something more and having that sentimental value associated with it. You can buy a fast car but you can't buy that.
Originally Posted by xRiCeBoYx
Lol, he already hit me up
Got him some good info to get him going. Insight into d17 build vs k-swap; pros and cons.
Yep! Thanks man for all the info. Enjoying the forum a lot so far.
Also, Cam ( @mac25 ) needs to hurry up with the hell up with his damn build
I kid, I kid.
Yeah, I tried looking up with the internet wayback machine site for his username but I couldn't find anything. You're very limited with that tool.
Since I remembered you saying that he skipped 1 and 2 and went to 3 to break through that 300whp wall then a stage 1 cam would be fine. Although who knows, might require upgrading in the future lol.
...Also, Cam needs to hurry up with the hell up with his damn build
I kid, I kid.
@xRiCeBoYx ...I know! Fml, right? Lol. I think we're a month or two away. Knock on wood. I'm going to look at the aluminum, water cut, mount parts on Monday. Then they need to be welded together. Then, its tunning time.
...but that's what I believe every time I'm close... before something blows up. Lol. Transmission went 2 years age, timingbelt broke last year (my fault).
Exhaust
I ordered a new catback exhaust but had to swap my headers & downpipe along with it because I had an LX. I messed it up and snapped a bolt between the headers & downpipe. Having an exhaust shop fix that now.
The catback I ordered was the Yonaka Motorsports catback. I'll post a video of it after I get it all fixed.
Intake Manifold
I sourced a D16Y8 intake manifold from the junkyard. I think I'm going to paint it so I can slowly dress up my engine bay. After I get done painting it I'm going to be making the mods necessary to install it to the D17. While there I also sourced a D16Y8 rocker arm & the camshaft.
ECU plans
Also ordered Hondata K-Pro with the AEM cam gear. I'm not sure if I'm going to be install this before or alongside the cylinder head swap.
Wiring Harness
I've also been toying with the idea of swapping a 04 or 05 EX wiring harness with the cylinder head for the VTEC wiring and the ability to run a wideband O2 sensor directly from the wiring harness.
Exhaust
I ordered a new catback exhaust but had to swap my headers & downpipe along with it because I had an LX. I messed it up and snapped a bolt between the headers & downpipe. Having an exhaust shop fix that now.
Happens to the best of us man. Luckily in my case, I had enough stud left to get a pair of vise-grips on it to extract the rest of the stud. Ran a tap through the thread (m6x1.0 IIRC?) to chase the threads and everything was happy in the world.
Originally Posted by crazicardi
Wiring Harness
I've also been toying with the idea of swapping a 04 or 05 EX wiring harness with the cylinder head for the VTEC wiring and the ability to run a wideband O2 sensor directly from the wiring harness.
Honestly, the VTEC wiring would be about the only benefit from that. Unless I'm wrong, the wiring/pinout for narrowband and wideband O2 sensors are the same. I don't 100% remember if you were set on swap or boost (sounds like boost at the moment), but if I were you, grab an AEM UEGO AFR gauge set (that includes the wideband sensor) and have your exhaust shop weld in the bung just downstream of the turbo (for some reason, 18" from the turbo exhaust outlet is in my head). On my 2002, I had it welded in right around the 90° bend in the downpipe. You'll definitely want real-time monitoring of wideband AFR anyways, just to make sure everything is copacetic.
Happens to the best of us man. Luckily in my case, I had enough stud left to get a pair of vise-grips on it to extract the rest of the stud. Ran a tap through the thread (m6x1.0 IIRC?) to chase the threads and everything was happy in the world.
Lol my stud snapped clean inside the thread. Like a perfect snap with nothing poking out. I was so pissed. But they're sorting it out for me.
Honestly, the VTEC wiring would be about the only benefit from that. Unless I'm wrong, the wiring/pinout for narrowband and wideband O2 sensors are the same. I don't 100% remember if you were set on swap or boost (sounds like boost at the moment), but if I were you, grab an AEM UEGO AFR gauge set (that includes the wideband sensor) and have your exhaust shop weld in the bung just downstream of the turbo (for some reason, 18" from the turbo exhaust outlet is in my head). On my 2002, I had it welded in right around the 90° bend in the downpipe. You'll definitely want real-time monitoring of wideband AFR anyways, just to make sure everything is copacetic.
As for the VTEC wiring swap. My reasoning is as follows: The K-Pro ECU is intended to run with a wideband O2 sensor as seen on K-series engines. The 01 to 03 civics don't come with that, so they have this 'closed loop' work around that basically uses the primary & secondary O2 sensors. I figured it'd just be easier if I swapped the wiring harness for both VTEC and the O2 sensor and call it a day. You can see real-time A/F ratio from K-Pro management. But I'd like a sensor to check while driving as well.
On a slightly unrelated note but I'm considering buying a beater to drive in situations like this. Been bumming off my girlfriend driving her CR-V that I've been working on for her. But then I saw the Honda Odyssey has a 3500lb tow rating and our EM2s only weigh like 2400 to 2500lbs stock? Seriously tempting because I feel like Odysseys are pretty underlooked and minivans are cheap now. It seems pretty capable.
I could rent a uhaul two wheel dolly and tow my car wherever. I had to drive an hour back from my mom's place to my apartment running basically open headers. Felt like it would be useful in situations like these.
Got my car back from the exhaust shop today. I installed DNA headers & cat-delete pipe with the Yonaka Motorsports catback.
The cheap headers & downpipe had awful fitment to the chassis. The exhaust shop had to make some minor modifications to it to make it work & fit properly.
Now the car doesn't have a leak and the exhaust isn't pressed against the floorboard. Car sounds absolutely wonderful now. The exhaust note is amazing and its hardly louder than stock (if any louder at all). This is with a cat delete too, which is amazing. I didn't want a loud car. I just wanted a better exhaust note and bigger piping. Got exactly what I wanted.
Now its time to work on my head swap. I think I'm going to build the head before I install it onto the car so I don't have to do the same thing twice.
Welp, bad news folks. I learned a valuable lesson and that is to always keep an eye on oil levels. I was keeping up with oil changes around ever 5K miles, I started to forget to check my oil in between, and somewhere along the way I must've burned quite a bit of oil.
My D17 ran low on oil and has been struck with a nasty case of rod knock- guessing a spun bearing. Who knows. This is quite a shame, and an expensive lesson to have learned, but I know now to always check your fluids. I'm checking my oil levels at least once every day or so on my daily and keeping an eye on coolant levels.
I found a wrecked '05 EP3 for $750 near me- trans & engine untouched. Think I'm gonna buy it for parts. Also found someone that sold K-swap mounts and a conversion harness for $325 all together. Guess I'm going K now guys
Buuuttt..... If that ep3 has good knuckle assemblies, you could always go 5-lug conversion and rear disk brake swap while you're at it. You'd just need to get ahold of some RSX (more readily available but requires a bit of finagling to fit) or 1.7EL (harder to find in the US but more direct fit) e-brake cables to complete the swap.
How's the quality on those mounts tho.. For that low of a price for mounts and conversion harness, I'd tread lightly. Hasport mounts are definitely the way to go, but if those mounts are solid with a good rep, then maybe.
You would want to buy the entire EP3 if you're going to K swap. It's easier that way.
That is what I plan on doing. Its completely there, its just got slammed into on the driver side by god knows what, but cleared both wheels. Perfect parts car honestly.
Originally Posted by xRiCeBoYx
Oooofff.... That sucks dude.
Buuuttt..... If that ep3 has good knuckle assemblies, you could always go 5-lug conversion and rear disk brake swap while you're at it. You'd just need to get ahold of some RSX (more readily available but requires a bit of finagling to fit) or 1.7EL (harder to find in the US but more direct fit) e-brake cables to complete the swap.
How's the quality on those mounts tho.. For that low of a price for mounts and conversion harness, I'd tread lightly. Hasport mounts are definitely the way to go, but if those mounts are solid with a good rep, then maybe.
They're Hasport ESK2 mounts from an old build. In fact, he seemed to be a frequent goer of the forums back in the day. His username was Sniperscouts I believe. I mentioned that I messaged you but couldn't remember your name on the spot but he knew exactly who you were lol. He told me he re-did the motor mount inserts and they hadn't been used yet.
He had an EM2 that he was throwing a K24 in but told me he just let the project sit for a couple of years and he finally decided to just start selling off the parts. He moved to my area and has a bunch of k-swap parts for sale. He said he was excited to meet a local EM2 owner looking to do a build like he did. He said he was convinced he'd never sell them.
The wrecked EP3 I found is a 5 lug and I'll definitely be doing the 5 lug conversion on all four corners- I picked up some '04 RSX Type S wheels for cheap. Curb rashed to hell but I'm restoring them and painting them, then I can clear the Type S big brakes lol.
Honestly a bit bummed I couldn't do the D17 build, I was looking forward to the underdog status of the motor, but I dunno man. I've found some really cheap deals and assuming I can sell some parts I don't need off of that EP3 I could EASILY clear this K24A2 swap for maybe $2000 or $2500 at the end of the day. That is cheaper than my entire budget for the D17 turbo build parts, not including tuning. It would be a bit silly not to.
Edit: And if anyone is interested, I'm going to have a K20A3 for sale here soon out of this EP3 in Louisville, KY. Just in case anyones looking lol.
They're Hasport ESK2 mounts from an old build. In fact, he seemed to be a frequent goer of the forums back in the day. His username was Sniperscouts I believe. I mentioned that I messaged you but couldn't remember your name on the spot but he knew exactly who you were lol. He told me he re-did the motor mount inserts and they hadn't been used yet.
He had an EM2 that he was throwing a K24 in but told me he just let the project sit for a couple of years and he finally decided to just start selling off the parts. He moved to my area and has a bunch of k-swap parts for sale. He said he was excited to meet a local EM2 owner looking to do a build like he did. He said he was convinced he'd never sell them.
Oh, wow, That's a username I haven't seen in quite some time. Yeah, I know who that is. sniperscout, no s at the end. lol. Never met the dude IRL, but I know exactly who that is. In fact, My brain stopped reading after "sniper" and filled in the rest. That's awesome man, definitely reputable. You have my blessing
Originally Posted by crazicardi
The wrecked EP3 I found is a 5 lug and I'll definitely be doing the 5 lug conversion on all four corners- I picked up some '04 RSX Type S wheels for cheap. Curb rashed to hell but I'm restoring them and painting them, then I can clear the Type S big brakes lol.
Yeah, that's why I mentioned the 5-lug conversion and the rear disc swap while you're at it. IIRC, the only 4-lug EP3s were 02-03. Maybe just 02's. If you can get them to fit, I'd say try and find a set of 17-19 sport hatchback OEM wheels. lol. People sell those at a real good price. They gonna be way the hell too wide without mods tho. 215 was about the max you could go with the 7thgen without rubbing and no modification, 225 if you were feeling frisky. 17-19 sport rims rock a 235 treadwidth with an 8" wide wheel. 7thgen, I think 7-7.5 was about the threshold
Oh, wow, That's a username I haven't seen in quite some time. Yeah, I know who that is. sniperscout, no s at the end. lol. Never met the dude IRL, but I know exactly who that is. In fact, My brain stopped reading after "sniper" and filled in the rest. That's awesome man, definitely reputable. You have my blessing
Yeah, that's why I mentioned the 5-lug conversion and the rear disc swap while you're at it. IIRC, the only 4-lug EP3s were 02-03. Maybe just 02's. If you can get them to fit, I'd say try and find a set of 17-19 sport hatchback OEM wheels. lol. People sell those at a real good price. They gonna be way the hell too wide without mods tho. 215 was about the max you could go with the 7thgen without rubbing and no modification, 225 if you were feeling frisky. 17-19 sport rims rock a 235 treadwidth with an 8" wide wheel. 7thgen, I think 7-7.5 was about the threshold
Lol awesome to hear that Sniper has a good reputation. He seems like an incredibly smart guy. Saw his white S2K when he sold me the mounts & conversion harness.
I'll probably stick to the Type S wheels- I like they styling a bit but also they're the smallest wheels I can fit around those big brakes. I don't know, never been a huge fan of those massive wheels on older cars. So 16 inches feels pretty massive to me lol. No clue what tire specs I'm going with though
Plans for a 300whp on my D17A1 
