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Hello, new here first post other than the intro page. Name's Rich.
Anyone know if the OEM radiators are made in China?
Having a sporadic temp spike in my 04 Civic. Been mining your wonderful site for info, don't want to believe the head gasket is blown at 62K miles.

Thanks
Rich

 
Rep Power: 511

The OEM Denso radiator in your car was probably manufactured in the US, Canada, or Mexico. That's where Denso's North American manufacturing facilities are.

Your cooling problems could be anything, though, really. Thermostat, air bubbles in your coolant.. I'd start off with the small, cheap, easy things before replacing your radiator and/or head gasket. A thermostat change and coolant flush/fill/bleed will probably cost you $20 or so.

 
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xRiCeBoYx
Appreciate the reply, I have picked up the hoses including heater, Factory thermostat and factory anti-freeze. Asking about the radiator since I noticed the passenger side appears to be bent, it is not a straight line vertically. Being an old codger set in his ways I hate taking things apart twice. The AutoZone by me can have a replacement radiator next day though it's sourced from China. I tend to shy away from all things China except for maybe Moo Shoo Pork. I hate to think the head gasket is blown cause I drive this easy and it's stock. My 919 appears to be bullet proof.
Again Thanks for the reply
Rich
P.S. Last time I was in the Vegas area Henderson and Vegas were two distinct towns. Maybe 1974 and my wife and I were on bicycles

 
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Ah, gotcha. How much is autozone charging for a radiator? You can get a Honda OEM one for $245 shipped ($330 if you want it overnighted) from Majestic Honda.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...OR+%28DENSO%29

And since you don't wanna take things apart twice, I'd just bleed and fill your coolant system, see if that does anything for you. Most you'd have to do if you end up replacing your radiator is maybe buy more coolant.

And yea, Henderson is still kind of its own town, though, the lines between Henderson and Las Vegas may be a bit blurred since then. I have a bunch of friends that live way out there, and we say they live out in Hendertucky, BFE, Egypt, the boonies, etc.. haha

 
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$134 lifetime guaranty could have it next day.

Thanks
Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

I hate wasting time and money doing work that wasn't necessary.

Makes no difference HOW you drove it, nor what's been done to it.
It didn't even need to get hot to blow.

Blown is still blown, no matter how much you don't want it to be.

I think 40k is the earliest I have seen it, personally.

 
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So you're convinced it's blown? Are the Civics notorious for blowing head gaskets? Has there been a recall? Changing hoses and a thermostat on an 8 year old car doesn't really seem like a waste of time and money to me. Tossing the radiator in as mine looks like it may have been bent at one time. Then if it persists I'll pop off the head get it surfaced and go from there.

Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

So you're convinced it's blown?

No.
Edit: Head gasket is far more common than anything else mentioned, at least as the first big problem in the cars life.

Are the Civics notorious for blowing head gaskets?

Yes.

Has there been a recall?

No.


Changing hoses and a thermostat on an 8 year old car doesn't really seem like a waste of time and money to me.

Does to me. This isn't the 60's anymore.
Most hoses can last the life of the car now (15-20+ years).
But if it has been overheated, that's another story.

Stat will be easy to change while the head is off.
Please use factory stat.



I can prove a head gasket on that in well under the 1.0 diag charge at the shop. And be able to say exactly which cylinder(s) are at fault.
Zero guesses, zero throwing of unnecessary parts to figure it out.
I apply shop air pressure (170+ PSI) to each cylinder. Watch the coolant level rise on the bad ones.

If it hasn't been overheated, the head will still be flat.

 
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ezone
appreciate your input and experience, my compressor will top out around 140psi is that sufficient to perform said test? If you were anywhere near my location I'd come by and have you check it out. Bought the Honda on their reliability ( lore/myth?). Last ride was a 5.0 92 T-Bird which was the most bulletproof car I've ever owned,200k miles and one water pump seal.
I was hoping the Civic would be like my 919, gas and ride ;-)

Thanks
Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

Maybe? The more, the merrier. Try it.
In the shop, I have 2 fast choices: the leakdown tester, which uses a regulated 30ish PSI, or straight line pressure from an air compressor. I use the air hose almost every time, because I can't discern where leaks are only using the 30PSI.
170 is closer to real working pressures in the cylinder, closer than just 30.

I start with a hot engine, all warmed up. That way if I need to test it cold later, all I have to do is let it sit for a while.
Remove the radiator cap. I then put a Funnel-Fill onto the radiator and add a little liquid.
The whips for my compression tester all use the same quick coupler as the shops air hoses. I remove the Schrader valve from the whip, screw it in the plug hole, rotate the engine to TDC on that hole, then connect the air hose to it.
May show right away, might take a couple of minutes. Depends on the severity of the failure. If nothing at all, then move to the next hole.
Watch the coolant level rise in the neck of the funnel when I hit the bad one. Found the one (or more) that breached.
Then make the estimate to yank the head.


That would make it an "appliance".


HTH

 
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I guess my 919 is an appliance then. As I ponder my predicament I do believe your assessment about the head gasket is correct because I can't see any other reason for the overflow tank being under enough pressure to blow out fluid.
FYI the replacement radiator for $130 from Autozone comes from Canada.
Here's the one from my car.

Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

That wasn't really a jab at you. You would need to understand how we think in the shop.

It's the very reason many states mandate safety inspections.

An appliance user is one that only knows that as long as they can put gas in the car and the car can pull itself under its own power, all must be great.
No matter what noises, smoke, running on two cylinders, or trail of broken parts may be emitted, that car is still moving on its own so therefore all must be great.
Oblivious to any warning signs or problems until the car just can't move anymore. No clue.
It's not a car, it's an appliance.
The car usually arrives on a stretcher.

Then, there are variations of this.

Some PANIC when that check engine light comes on, that is the ONLY way the car can communicate there is anything amiss.

Others just ignore that annoying and unnecessary light too.

Some show up when the car can't stop, been driving that way for the last week.... (My girlfriends son...LOL)

Crisis based maintenance, not preventive maintenance.







Anyway.....
Kinda looks like the radiator got punched about 4th row in. Was the condensor damaged too?
It is amazing how much of a hit some take and not leak a drop.

 
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Condenser is fine, probably replaced. Head gasket was breached in a number of places. I can slip a .0015 feeler gauge between a straight edge and the head. I was going crazy trying to locate the other 2 locating dowels till my son pointed out that only 2 were in the same place in the head and block.


Now it's a waiting game, drop off the head to have it surfaced and hopefully the parts will arrive tomorrow or Friday. Is it unusual for the dowel positions being different from head to block? Was my car assembled from a couple of hulks?
Thanks
Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

Not sure what you mean by this. Sounds hacked? They can remain stuck in either the head or the block when you lift the head up.

There should only be 2 dowels, both on the (forward) side of the deck. (I couldn't remember, had to look that up.) One in the head bolt hole between cyls #1 and #2, the other between #3 and #4.

Dowels are #26 here:

 
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Wait a sec:


Someone with real tools??? WOW!
LOL.


You say "a number of places" like it has low spots. Maybe someone hit it with a 3M ScotchBrite pad and gouged the heck out of the surface? Easy to do on Aluminum.
I use single edge razor blades to scrape. It has an MLS gasket, there shouldn't be anything more than paint stuck to the surfaces.


Anyway...
My bible says (quotes) max head warpage is 0.05 mm (0.002 in.).
And
Max resurface limit is 0.2 mm (0.008 in.) based on a height of 93 mm (3.7 in.).

HTH

 
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Maybe I'll keep adding info like this...


Also, now is the time to zip that aluminum plate from the intake and clean out the carbon buildup from the EGR passages. It really sucks pulling the intake later to do it.

 
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I'm a bit of a tool addict, the next thing down on my addiction line would be .22LR firearms. Tool addiction started in 66 when I worked at a Honda dealer for 8 years. The biggest thing Honda made was a 305 Super Hawk.
So you're saying I really don't need to resurface the head. Here's a pic of the TDC 'tool' I made to verify TDC.

Sorry for the quality of the pics but you get the idea, some plastic rod I had on hand, masking tape and a sharpie.
Now is my passenger side motor mount broken?
And I forgot to mention you guys are the best, I opened all 3 pages on head gasket replacement then carried my laptop out to the garage. Much better than the feeble manual I bought. Many thanks
Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

Did you actually apply air to the cylinders and prove there was a breach before yanking the head off??

I guess that is up to you.. You know a perfectly flat head will seal better than a wavy one, and these engines need all the help they can get.
A light shave?
Just make sure the RA is right for a MLS gasket. Needs to be really fine, almost mirror finish. I sent one head out that came back with a belt sander finish, luckily it sealed up but that was the last work we sent to that machine shop.

Instructions say the head gasket goes on dry.

Wow. I'm almost surprised there isn't a dial indicator attached to that.
I just drop a long screwdriver down a hole and watch it move.

You'd almost need to take it apart and inspect the rubber web, see if it is torn.
Or get the engine running again, and powerbrake it while looking for excessive movement.
Maybe, but not a high failure item IMO.

HTH

 
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I had the radiator out already, and when I pressure tested it, it in fact was leaking.
Let me pick your brain some more, couldn't find my steel blue so a sharpie had to do.

Now with my straight edge ( checked on a surface plate ) and some 2000 grit paper this is what it looked like.


In your esteemed opinion should I have it surfaced? I don't have any personal experience with any of the machine shops so I don't know what to expect in finish quality.
And what is this EGR plate I need to clean?
Very much appreciated
Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

I can't see the same stuff you see, but since you said you got .0015", I'd probably be confident with running it as-is. It's within spec.
I do notice the original machining swirls now, so I doubt anyone went nuts with a whiz-wheel. At 60k this should be the first time it has ever been apart.


The EGR distribution plate is the aluminum section attached to the plastic intake manifold.
It is sandwiched between the head and manifold when assembled.

I can see it in this pic



With only 60k, I may not expect there to be a bunch of carbon buildup, but you may as well clean it out while you can.


Lunch is over, gotta fly.
HTH

 
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Here's the block



I also picked up a trans cooler for it. Now it's a waiting game as I was hoping my box would arrive from Hondapartscheap. And what's the thought on head bolts do I need to replace them?
Thanks for sharing
Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

I seriously like the colors in the first pic. LOL

Reuse the head bolts.
No need to replace, they aren't TTY type. Observe specs and procedures.

(IMHO If they had built it with TTY head bolts, maybe they wouldn't have all the head gasket issues.)

 
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Thanks, much appreciated

Rich

 
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Just a point of interest , a 1 1/16th 6 point socket fits on the 'wing nuts' and you can loosen them with your ratchet.
Also just got a notification from hondapartscheap that my package has just shipped. Hope I don't forget how this goes back together by the weekend.

Rich

 
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Opened my box of parts, ran down to the local dealer and picked up the 4 separate intake gaskets and plug for the camshaft. Took the week off and tomorrow will start with slow deliberation assembling my Civic.
Want to thank all you folks, ezone in particular for the free knowledge and experience.
What's the preferred spark plug and what is this learning my computer has to do when I have it all together?
Will take a bunch of pics as I go.

Thanks Again
Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

I took an old trashy brand socket and chopped 2 slots in the sides. It does wingnuts of many types now, even most spare tire hold down bolts on many other brands of cars.


YW. Donations always accepted.


Catalog says:
NGK- PZFR6F-11
or
DENSO- PKJ20CR-M11
Both are 100k mile plugs.

NGK is much easier to find at parts stores, and most can get them overnight if need be.
(You can use the older NGK ZFR6F-11 plugs if you are on a budget, but they are 30k replacement interval plugs.)

Don't bother using anything but those 2 brands.
Don't let DangerZone con you into anything else when you go get the plugs.

Idle learn.
Make sure everything is right, no vacuum leaks, valves adjusted, and whatnot.

Get it fully warmed up, turn everything electrical OFF, and let it idle for 10 minutes in neutral or park. (It's actually only 5 minutes, but if the fans run you can't count that time.)
That's it.

HTH

 
Rep Power: 252

Dangerzone lol..

 
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I guess this has far exceeded a simple radiator question by now. All my parts are here and have taken another week vacation and will attempt to get this all back together. Side tracked today as my son came by with his Focus SVT with an electrical problem.
I did stumble upon a Honda service bulletin No. 08-098 about 04 and 05 civics with contaminated coolant causing the radiators to corrode and cause overheating. Will cut the top off my old radiator to see what it looks like inside.
Again Thanks for all the help, much appreciated.
Rich

 
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when torquing down the head I almost caused myself a huge dilemma, looking at the Haynes manual for the specs i read it as 14 then 36 and finally 49. I thought it was in/lbs since at the top of the column one of the camshaft bearing caps said 104 in/lbs. Kept staring at that cause my brain was saying that's wrong then glanced at the Nm equivalent and realized my mistake. Guess all the synapse's don't fire well in 99 degree heat and high humidity.
These did not come with the kit.


Some pics


And here's my dedicated tool for the plastic body panel rivets.


ezone I did get the correct NGKs.

Rich

 
Rep Power: 517

Those silicone rubber (blue) gaskets don't seem to ever go bad, they get reused a lot.


I hear ya on that. It's 98 in the shop right now, and I'm changing a cracked block in an 07. I should have taken it into the front half of the building (parts dept or showroom) after I got it out of the car.