Rep Power: 0

OK so I just picked up an 05 EX SE coupe on Thursday with 59k.. Paid to have it certified, extended warranty to 100k.. the full hose job.. Everything went well car is beautiful. First day driving it to work my air bag light comes on, then goes out a couple minutes later, then on again, then off.. I'm thinking ok must be my bookbag on the passenger seat tripping up the passenger airbag. So I moved it to the backseat.. still did it.. sitting idle its off.. get up to around 35mph or so and it comes on and off whenever. After further testing it seems not to matter whether there is a passenger or not.. It comes on whenever it wants to and goes out whenever (while driving, stays off while stopped)

So coming home from work late its dark so I get to admire how bright the headlights are.. Until I notices a flicker.. I figure maybe the assemblies are loose and bouncing on the bumpy road.. Annoyed but I continue home. When I get home I pull into the driveway and by chance I revved the engine to pull forward (manual tranny, still getting used to clutch) but while it revved the lights pulsed again. After further checking if I revved the engine to 2500rpm or higher the lights would begin to pulse.

Anyways, took it to the dealer I bought it from today.. (mind you this is now 48hrs after having the full Honda Certification and such done and taking delivery of this car). I explained in detail to the tech the same info I'm telling you all now.. he shakes his head writes it down, 30 minutes later tells me he threw it on the scanner, no codes, electrical system meets standards and there is nothing wrong with my car.. Didn't drive it anywhere, didn't test anything the way I tested nothing.. put it on a computer, computer spits out numbers, tech tells me all it good and go away..

this angered me.. So I confronted him about the flickering lights and he played stupid and said he didn't see it.. So I jump into the car, start it up turn on the lights and rev the engine.. the lights are pulsing away and he's like I don't see anything.. So I did it again, another customer in the shop talking to another tech saw what I was doing and even she saw the flickering.. At this point the tech shrugged his shoulders and said he'd have to call someone monday but he can't do anything..

So the question is what do I do.. This damn car is supposedly covered 10 ways from sunday.. Little did I know that "this" honda dealership's service department lives and dies by its stupid computer diagnostics regardless of whether or not there is something wrong that can be visibly seen by human eyes.

I've exhaustively googled various forums, wikianswers, and this forum for the last 6 hours. Not only are the limited results not getting me any closer to a resolution but looking at others who've dealt with similar issues I'm beginning to wonder what the hell I got myself into.. If the dealer won't do anything I'm tempted to just tell them to take the car back and cut my losses because if little "gremlin" stuff like this can't be addressed I don't want to even bother fighting the battles of more serious issues.

Any help on the issues, TSB links, or advice on how to handle the dealers crap is greatly appreciated..

I appologize for making this my first post.. I promise that if I keep this car I'll post up with pictures a more appropriate newbie intro.. Thanks again

 
Rep Power: 284

Sorry to hear about your predicament.

I know most of us here with 7th generation civics have the headlight flickering problem. I'm not sure whether it's directly attributable to a certain RPM (so maybe your civic does have some other electrical issues).

As for the airbag light, that definitely isn't normal. Do you have warranty papers? I'd read them carefully to see what they state is covered and what the procedures are for making a claim and/or formal complaint.

Another option may be to see whether your state law allows for you to rescind the contract.

Good luck.

 
Rep Power: 0

Thanks for the reply.. I have the papers that come with the factory original warranty (being its at 59k and only 4 years old) I also got the Honda factory Certified used warranty including the full bumper to bumper 7 year/100k extension.. The problem is the service tech put the car on a diagnostic machine, saw no code and wrote it off saying "the computer doesn't show anything is wrong so can't help you." Despite the fact that if he'd have driven the car around the block he'd have had a better than 50/50 chance of having the light come on.

I'll have to double check the bill of sale but I thought there was a 10 day satisfaction guarantee.. I don't want to have to give the car back.. I was in a situation to have to buy another car so taking this one back really would be counter productive and I surely wouldn't trade this for another car on their lot.

After more searches, could there be a seat sensor or something thats intermittent.. how many airbag sensors are there in an EX with side airbags?

As for the flickering, I think I'm going to get a voltmeter and run some tests.. IS there a way to bypass the ELD to see if that clears up the flicker? I understand it'll kick a CEL but with the ELD bypassed will the Alternator stay in high mode or low mode?

 
Rep Power: 811

headlights are common to flicker, usually because of the weak alternator. you may want to check the factory ground wires for corrosion too, but otherwise there isnt much you can do. the airbag is def a problem that needs to be fixed tho. it sounds like a loose connection somewhere in the system.

 
Rep Power: 0

headlights are kinda common, again, check all grounds and wires for connectivity and corrosion, where u find corrosion clean and reinstall. if not have the alternator tested for output voltage, and if its good, it could be the ELD, or electronic load dector.

on to the SRS light, i would again, check all connectors, if you have one loose, that may be the culprit. if not, just wait for the light to stay on, all SRS components on honda's are covered for life, seatbelts, pretensioners all of it. be patient or take it back, those are your only options

 
Rep Power: 0

Ok popped open the hood.. checked the battery connections.. Everything's tight and pretty clean.. The seemed to have put a nice coating of purple anti corrosion stuff on both terminals.. peeked around for ground wires that are visible from under the hood.. Nothing looks corroded, no wires dangling nor appear loose.. Followed wires to alternator and they looked clean as well.. Where are some of the hidden places I should check for connections?

Alternator load tests from the dealership showed good readings under load and good battery voltages.. That's where my problem is.. because the computer said the voltages were good then there's nothing wrong.. And flickering headlights is apparently just fine and normal. funny how my girlfriends 97 civic with 177k doesn't flicker though.

SRS.. I think I'm going to get a flashlight up under the seats and check to make sure the connectors are good.. I'll pull the battery and disconnect the connectors, inspect, and reconnect them too.. I would think that a tech would have been able to do this and communicate to me they performed such standard troubleshooting and inspection.

Thanks for the suggestions.. Under most circumstances I'd live with "gremlins" being the nature of a used car.. But the fact that I bought the vaseline and opted for the full certification and bumper to bumper extended warranty, I feel that I'm entitled to "like new" quality especially in the first hours of ownership.

 
Rep Power: 811

well they should at least try and fix the problems, theyre just being lazy. for the ground wires, there is one that goes from negative battery terminal to a chassis ground point, and another from there to the transmission. and the third one is a separate wire from engine block to radiator support. you can also check the actual headlight connectors to make sure they are nice and greased up. when the lights are on, see if wiggling the connector causes problems. its common for the lights to dim when accessories are used but they should not be flickering noticably while driving. if you can, unplug one of the headlight connectors and put a voltmeter on it to read the voltage while someone else is in the car trying to make them flicker by stepping on the gas or whatever. then you can see if the voltage is fluctuating and that indicates a problem that the dealership would have to fix. most likely a problem with the ELD not regulating the current properly.

 
Rep Power: 0

Just as an interesting point.. My driver's headlight just blew this morning.. So while going to Azone to get a replacement bulb I decided to check to see if I still had the pulsing on the working light.. yep still there.. So I showed and asked the Azone rep if he'd seen that before? kid looked at me and said "Sorry I don't know anything about Hondas. But I can run a electrical system test if you want.." I'm wondering if Honda's have just become incredibly complex to work on or I'm just that lucky to only talk to the village idiots of this town. Thank god there are places like this where I can actually get help..

I'll have to dig in again tomorrow to check those other ground wires.. I only checked the battery one to the chassis.. I don't know why I didn't think to check for the engine ground wire..

 
Rep Power: 0

hell have autozone run the electrical system test on it, honda could be lying to u about even testing it

 
Rep Power: 0

I got a paper with a print out of battery and charging system.. but to be sure I pulled out my handy dandy Voltmeter tonight just to see.. Cold start up, no heater blower, headlights only on.. I got a consistant ready of 15.86V.. revved the engine would peak at 15.96V.. Lights pulse.. let idle, back to 15.8V.. So went to dinner came back (about 30 minutes worth of driving) kept heater fan on low, stereo low volume, no other accessories running.. pulled into garage turned off headlights and heater.. checked voltage.. sure enough still bouncing 15.6V to 15.8V.

Now I understand under load and such that anything under 16V is supposed to be ok.. But it seems to me that nearly 16V all the time doesn't seem healthy.. My Grand Am with new battery, new alternator, new accessory belt only ever at best pulled 14.7V so over 15V is really suprising to me.

So what do you think.. Am I really reaching on this one or is this thing slowly cooking my electrical system and the cause of the headlight popping this morning.

 
Rep Power: 0

Just went out and tested my girlfriends 97 HX.. cold start no accessories no lights.. 14.55V.. let run idle for couple minutes, fan on low, headlights on.. 14.48V.. rev rpms to 3000.. 14.55V. Hers doesn't have any signs of electrical issues though.. but I figured I'd just shop and compare just incase 15V is something common for these cars..

At any rate, the honda service dept paperwork also showed the load test in the 15.8V range but was stamped OK.

 
Rep Power: 0

**** all that. Take the car back. If you have this many problems now, imagine what it's going to be like 6 months or a year from now. Get your money back and go to a different dealer.

 
Rep Power: 811

whoa having an alternator that high is not okay. thats a huge red flag that it is overcharging and the next disaster youre gonna have is exploded battery (acid leaking all over from the battery being overcharged). i think your alternator is effed and for sure is the reason you prematurely blew a bulb. get that taken care of asap. the highest your charging system should ever be is 14.5v, usually on the newer civics no more than 14.2v and it dips down to 12v periodically. now did you test this right when you cold started the car? because when the car is warming up at high idle on a cold start, 15.5v is normal. but once the car is at operating temp, theres no way it should be above 14.5v max.

 
Rep Power: 0

The test was fairly basic I admit.. Fluke Voltmeter directly to battery terminals..

1. Cold start headlights on, no heater or other accessories on.
2. let idle for couple minutes tested again
3. headlights off no accessories
4. drove to dinner, ate, came back home (maybe 30 minutes worth of in town driving, heater on low, stereo low, headlights on) pulled into garage tested again.
5. let sit and idle for couple minutes headlights, heater, radio off..

All yielded over 15V readings. Honda inspection sheet print off also showed over 15V but considered this to be OK.

The only time I've ever seen consistant 15+V is my friends drag car and that was because he had intentionally put circuitry in place to bump up voltages to the ignition system and fuel pump when at the track.. But that wasn't going thru the entire electrical system either.

 
Rep Power: 0

I think I'm taking it to autozone and have them run a load test and see what they think.

 
Rep Power: 811

well that will only tell you if the battery is bad. you already know the alternator is bad. altho they should be able to tell you how many amps the alternator is putting out. stock is around 70-80 amps.

 
Rep Power: 0

I'm new here, and I'm totally new with Hondas but I figured I'd throw in my .02

I was always taught (and have seen this prove fairly true on a number of bikes and cars) that if you can see a marked change in the vehicle's lighting when the engine is revved that you're looking at a bad stator/alternator or voltage regulator.

That would be where I'd start, so I suppose I'm just confirming the previous alternator diagnoses.

 
Rep Power: 0

Took it to azone.. he ran his tests and said your "voltage regulator is bad" he was getting peaks of 16.4V but was still averaging well into the 15V range.. So I called the honda tech again.. He said he pulled up my diagnostic service paperwork and decided that the alternator needs replaced because the charging tests showed high voltages... REALLY!?!?! WOW!!! Dropped the car off last night, should be done today.. Under warranty.

As for the airbag light issue.. I double checked wiring connections and no light all day yesterday.. I'm hoping that either the electrical system problems or a loose connector is all it was.. Otherwise, overlooking these initial problems I'm liking the car..

Thank you everyone for your help and advice.. Once the weather breaks I'll snap a couple pictures and post up a much more up beat intro.

 
Rep Power: 0

how do i check my voltage?
noob question i kno but is it just from the battery terminals or the alt pos and neg?