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Well GM has decided to sell there stake in suburu. Toyota is set to pick up half of GM's shares. I think the Toyota-Suburu combo would be interesting. I can see suburu using Toyota for there hybrid technology and add it to certain models in there line. Toyota would benefit by adding a sport brand without alienating there current customers. It seems inline with Toyota's new committment to become more sporty and come out with more aggressive designs. I can see how the suburu engineers can help Toyota out on more aggressive designs.

You guys think Toyota will become the new GM? Buying stakes in companies where they have little market representation. I think experts estimated that Toyota is set to over take GM as the number one producer of vehicles in 2007 or 2010 or something.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=107494

 
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There has been talk about this for a while. There are proposed talked of a mega-merger with GM and Toyota to create one big super company (that would be scary). I highly doubt that will happen though, the government would step in to prevent something like that from happening.


OH YEAH...It's "Subaru" NOT "Suburu".

 
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I like my toyota but want a subaru. Maybe I can have a toyobaru!!

 
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or a subayota

 
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So why did they discontinue the Supra in the states...also with the advent of their Celica GT you would think that they could start with already exsisting models and beef them up some....

Nice sig Tem!!

 
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I really hope that Toyota and GM dont merge. That would kil the Toyota image as quality n reliable cars.

 
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i think toyota needs 1 more branch for just sports cars. they have the spo-com scion, the everybody brand toyota, the luxury brand lexus. they need 1 more for just sports cars. they they would appeal to everyone.

they could sell that rumored super tc they are making, a new gen celica, a not-as-shitty-as-last-gen mr2, and a new supra. that would make so much money!

 
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hmmmm a corolla with a boxer engine?

 
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why does everyone like boxer engines? I really think they are a pain in the ***, take up alot of horizontal space, and sound pretty ugly. the only reason people like boxer engines is cause there are 2 good ones so far; the original beetles' and the new stis.

the original beetle engine ran forever, so thats why people like that them.
the STi is about as trendy as furry snow boots and pink skirts so thats why people like them.

no offense to STi fanboys; i respect the cars power and engineering, but i dont care about it at all anyone.
to boxer engines.

 
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I think with increasing gas prices the sports car market is going to be declining, Toyota could make a lot of money if it could makes sports cars that had power, but maintained some persuasion of fuel efficiency (ie: hyrbid-gasoline engines, VVT-i engines that only made a lot of power when revved to hell, etc.).

I'm curious to see if Toyota buying all this stock actually causes any change in the way that Fuji/Subaru is run or not, as from what I've read, GM didn't have a huge hand in development (kind of like Ford w. Mazda) and just occasionally borrowed parts (ie: the new Saab 9-2X/Impreza).

Looking at Toyota's sports car concept that was released a few months back (can't recall the name offhand, it was just a bunch of letters, kind of like the HSC concept), Toyota doesn't need the help of another company to make a proper sports car.

What Toyota does need though, is another brand, not Subaru, to market their cars under (much like they did w. Scion in the US). Overseas esp, Japanese cars just aren't construed as true sports cars and when you compare them to German and Italian offerings the logic eventually just rolls back around to "So what, its a Honda/Toyota/Nissan, they haven't got any finesse." they need to dispell their economy car image if they're going to be selling anyone anything sporty anytime soon, they need some cachet.

 
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dont porsches have boxer engines too??

 
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i was just trying to fit in......


just cracking a stupid joke hehe

 
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They probably discontinued the supra doing that time probably for the same reasons honda discontinued the prelude. The prelude and supra both had there own platforms and were low volume cars. Honda discontinued the prelude to make more odesseys, Toyota discontinued the supra and replaced it with is300. Mini vans aren't as cool as sports cars, but they make manufacturers more money.

The supra and prelude maybe cars everyone wants, but at the time they were cars no one would buy. Toyota has seen a recent comeback of sports cars and roadsters with the success of the 350z and g35. Thats why there bring back the supra.

 
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Supra died because of emmisions. It is no longer being sold anywhere that I know of.

They are only talking about owning shares of Subaru, not the entire company. Look at Ford and Mazda, Ford own like 60% of Mazda, yet mazda and Ford only share a couple base plantiforms and 1 engine block (just the block, not even the same crank and pistons). I mean Toyota is only looking into buying 50% of GM's shares, that comes out to what... 25% of Subaru... that's not really enough to make much difference.

 
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Yes they do

 
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i'm sure, they could've made the supra meet emission standards. The is300 for example uses the same supra engine and meets emission requirements.

The was talkin about Toyota picking up half of GM's stake in the company. That could clue into some alliance not merger talks or just cooperation on certain projects. Even a 10% stake in the company makes them affliate companies and gives some tax benefits for example if your going to do part sharing or platform sharing components. Most people are under the impression, different car companies buy shares of other companies to control the company's operations. In most cases they do it for tax and financial reasons. Its easier to move money around in affilated or sister companies rather then give loans or special contracts. There taxed differently.

 
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The Supra used (as well as the NA), the FI 2JZ, the IS300 uses only the NA 2JZ, a Supra would hardly be a Supra if it wasn't FI, and it seems to be more difficult to meet fuel emissions if you're running FI (just look at Subaru having to reclass one of their vehicles as a light truck to meet emissions standards). Thats probably why they couldn't make it meet the standards. Plus, FI is always a wee bit more of a warranty liability than NA is, (poor example) but look at all the FI RX7 owners who had to have thier engines replaced courtesy of Mazda.

 
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if VW can make turbo cars that meets emissions, i'm pretty sure Toyota can as well. The supra died because it was on its own separate platform and had declining sales. In the late 90's people were buying SUV's and Mini Vans. It didn't make any business sense to continue with a car that costs a lot in R&D and had little return.

 
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VW's 1.8T is low boost though, if you look at it's output, esp. on earlier models, seeing a 1.8L block boosted you'd think the numbers would be higher, but they're not. Same w. their present 2.0T.

The car did have things in return too, as was mentioned the engine was later used in the IS300 which (I guess after people stopped buying only SUVs and minivans) became something of a sucess. Its not like research knowledge gained from one car can only be applied to that one car.

 
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it should be pretty interesting 2 see what they come out with

 
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Why? Production costs. The Supra (and MR2 for that matter) was an engineering masterpiece, but costs were high, not many were made, so Toyota just wasn't making much profit from them.

 
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Are you forgetting Porsche?

And listen guys, they ARE NOT bringing back the Supra. Toyota has NEVER revived an old car and called it the same thing. Even the new MR-S was not an MR2. The MR2 and Supra were low market, expensive sportscars that made the company little money and eventually sold at a loss, so they were discontinued. When you're making the money Toyota is, sportscars are much less important, as they're more of an image type thing, that helps get a companies name out.

As far as Toyota sportscars, I'd bet my money it would be some kind of Hybrid. Toyota is afterall the company who invented hybrid technology. They make a TON of money from it. Hybrid Hondas, GM's, Fords, yeah they are ALL paying Toyota for the technology. Also, just an FYI, yes the 2JZ-GE is used in the IS300, but it is NOT the same engine as the 2JZGTE or GE from a Supra. I mean, it is, but there are major differences. For example the Rods of an IS300 are TINY compared to a Supra GE/GTE engine. This is probably in part due to VVTI, since 1998 Supras (w/VVTI) also have weaker internals than 93-97 models.

Im definately happy to hear of this alliance though, since I'd love to see some AWD Toyotas. Sure theres the Matrix XR, and the old All-Trac, but Toyotas AWD systems suck. The XR's system can't handle much power, which is why the matrix XRS w/ the 2ZZ-GE is FWD not AWD. So if they can gain some AWD knowledge from Subaru and maybe some more agressive styling for their youth-marketed cars I think it'd be a major success. And maybe we'll see greater quality / reliability from Subaru, although I think they make pretty good cars right now.

 
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Are you kidding? If Toyota would be willing to bail out GM like that, the US Govt. would jump at the chance.

Toyota and GM already have a joint venture, that goes back to Reagan's Buy American regulations to allow foreign manufactures to operate in the US. It started with Geo and changed to Prism a Corolla clone. The only thing left of it is the Pontiac Vibe a Matrix clone made in California that people will not buy because it has the Pontiac name on it.

 
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Well, technically, they already brought the Supra back once, as if I'm not mistaken there was no 1993 Supra, though this -has- been a bit of a longer hiatus than a year

 
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this should be interesting...

 
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The is300 was never a success in terms of sales. The inital sales were decent then tappered off. Even Lexus admitted there were at least 1000 things wrong with the original is300 in there statement about the new is300. The only thing the old is300 did was bring in younger buyers to the lexus brand. its a great car, but it wasn't the 3 series fighter it was intended to be.

More people were willing to spend 30k on a vehicle that can carry 5 people rather then a sports car that can only carry 2 people, hence death of supra.

 
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There is hope that the supra will be back. Toyota is thinking about adding a super car into there line up. there just not sure whether its going to be a Toyota or a lexus. They basically need something that will combat the Skyline when it comes out in 2007.

At the moment Toyota has enough cash to experiment with different cars.

http://www.edmunds.com/future/2007/l...7/preview.html

the info is a little old but it does mention a supra

http://www.edmunds.com/future/2007/t...4/preview.html

 
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check it out guys, just as i predicted. Toyota bought shares of suburu so they can work on projects together. Toyota is having suburu design there next generation of compacts with the suburu AWD.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=107935


Seems like Toyota is well on its way to become the next gm.

 
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Someone should Photochop a Toyota and a Subaru together just to see what it looks like. Make a Corolla in winning blue with a hood scoop and some gold BBS rims

 
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AWD corolla....lol. Actually a awd super charged TC would be nice.