HorrorSkopes

This was my response post to a post but it got no response back...

I beg to differ, the rsx models is acura base model on it's line up, why would honda get rid of it w/ the newly design front and rear fascia, plus the car sales very well and for cheap. The rsx isnt going anywhere period!

You guy cannot compare apples to orange, why does everybody look @ peformance? HONDA had said it many times and made it clear, there are moving to hybrid/energy/gas/electric/safe/relaible vehicles, honda has never been a performance company, us tuners have been the honda performance company.

They don't have to compete w/ chevy or dodge, honda is not in the peformance market. Before honda USDM makes any changes, it has to go thru HOJ, and if that's the case, we would have a type-r civic or integra or even a 200hp civic. You have to look @ it this way, there are 2 companies... honda/acura. Honda says, if you want a cheap reliable gas-saving car, get a civic or if you need a performance on a budge, get a sI. Now, acura stand is, reliable, sporty, performance, fun to drive car. If you really want a 200hp civic, honda will tell you to buy a rsx-s, and in MANY cases, PEOPLE HAVE! Why make a 200hp civic that will take market share from the luxary division of the rsx-s? You pay more, but you get a hell alot more.

From a business stand point, honda has been selling and making money for years w/ the same message and output since the early 90's. Nothing has changed but the engines and chasis. The civic is the #1 selling econ-car in the US and it doesnt have pefromance. Unless the civic looses soooooo much ground work it'll stay that way. We all know the mazda and a few others have bumped the base car HP up, but are those car really selling well? Do a search, you notice even the lesser HP/TRQ civic outsells the others 4-1 in the market. Honda/acura has to keep the market share divide between all there cars like nissan/infiniti and toyota/lexus. Each car has it's on specific market and user base it's pointed at.

People, you have to look @ it from hondas point of view:

Performance on a budge: sI
Performance w/ luxary: type-s
Performance for the track: s2000
Performance w/ track and racing: NSX


I believe that's there stand point and will always be. HONDA over the years w/ less hp/trq on there vehicles has always outshined the competetion, they don't need flashy numbers, just good engineering and focus. Honestly, I wouldnt want a 200hp civic, honda would be loosing focus on there market and share. Toyota is doing the same thing, dropping performance and going a different route and there the #1 car manufactor in the US (soon to be).

P.S. Alot of people wan't more HP out of the civic, because they know honda has cheap cars, but honestly do you think a 200hp civic is gonna cost you... 14-19k the sI cost 19k and some change and is only 160hp, where talking about well over 20k for a 200hp civic, which in the same case that's why there is acura and the rsx and type-s. Honestly, if you want more stock HP for cheap, finish school... get the job, buy you a pefromance car when you have the money. Why would you buy a 200hp civic when it'll cost the same as the 210hp type-s? If I hand the money, hands down id buy a 210hp rsx-s over a 200hp civic.

Sorry for the rant, im looking @ it from a business stand point, not a tuner stand point.

CivicsRdBest

Well, there are some points that aren't covered. The Civic sells so well because it has a ton of choices. Similarly, the F-150 has a ton of choices too. The Civic has a hatchback version, sedan, and coupe, then within those versions there are multiple engines too, like the K20, the hybrid engine and d17's.

The market share and price span covered by the "Civic" overlap a lot of it's competitors cars. Toyota has the Echo, Corolla, and the Matrix, and the Celica in the price range of the Civic, so you would have to combine those sales to compete with the Civic's sales.

Honda is not a performance company, they have slowly shifted away from that. However, they did have fun cars. They were fun because they had good suspension and decent amount of weight. The power side has always been lack-luster. They have also moved away from those good points. The power of your average Civic (a D17) hasn't changed much in the last several years. The suspension for the Civic has changed, and current models weigh a LOT more than they ever did. The only thing missing is the power. Even the Accord has slowly risen in power over the years.

I guess, I'm just saying, from a consumer point, if I wanted sporty I'd look somewhere else, because under the RSX, Honda doesn't have anything.

Blahman2

a cars price isn't entirely based on hp.

Logan3024

iTrader: (8)

what exactly is your point here?

hotrodcivic2004

yeah what response do you want

Logan3024

iTrader: (8)

If you have any doubts about hondas current line-up being weak in power, drive your lancer down to your local honda dealership and test drive an Accord coupe v6 or an S2000, If your still not satisfied, go to your Acura dealer and test drive a A-spec TSX or even a 300 hp A-spec RL or maybe 270 hp TL and of course the Type S RSX, then write a review about how "HONDA HAS NEVER BEEN A PERFORMANCE COMPANY"

jericho73

I don't think he's talking about the Acura brand not being geared towards enthusiests, but the Honda "brand", as opposed to the Honda Motor Co. which obviously controls both. First though, Honda does have at least 2 cars in it's lineup that're performance oriented...the v6 Accord 5-speed and the S2000, and the Si is a fun daily driver. Other then that though, the Acura brand tends to get the higher hp cars, because it's the "higher" brand while the Honda "brand" is the more economical, more affordable "brand". At least in NA, thst is how is marketed, and prolly why Honda chooses to slot some cars such as the Accord Euro-R or Integra under the Acura name in NA.

As far as a 200hp Civic...for a couple of reasons i cant see it. First, sales of the RSX suck as is, and this would kill it. Same company, so why cut off your hand to spite your face? Acura uses the RSX to get young people into it's brand, i dont think they want to lose it. Second, the Civic has always been the affordable, economical daily driver kinda car, even if the 200hp was only a top model, you can't have your top model at 200hp and your base model at 127 or w/e. And if you bump the hp in all the cars, you start to lose some of what makes it an affordable, economical car.

Just IMO.

RedEU

but i just thought being available to the consumer is the most important thing, wheather it sells or not, obviously you cant expect the top model being the best seller, its an image thing, & since the cars (eg. 200hp civic type r, or the rsx type r) already exist in other markets, why not just make them available?

jakejham

^^^ i agree. like they did with the integra type R in the previous generation. limited quantities that would sell like crazy.

Voiceofid

iTrader: (3)

because that will cause the firm to lose money, consider that the tuning side of honda is merely 1% or less of their sales, since most tuners buy the cars used, which they don't profit from.

that's the reason all the 90s import sports car disappeared, that's the reason why the celica is dead, and that is the reason the mr2 is gone

i read from my recent motor trend that honda also scrapped the nsx replacement because it cost too much

jericho73

You can'tgo by other markets when discussing what a 200hp Civic would do to sales of the RSX, as in other markets <except Canada, Hong Kong> the 215 hp CTR, the 220hp ITR and ITS etc, are all sold under one banner, Honda. So competition amongst cars under the same bwnner isn't as important. Here in NA you have Honda and Acura, and HMC doesn't want to undercut the sales of a car in it's "premium" brand for a car in its "economy" brand. Doesn't make sense to do so...as Acura needs the RSX as an entry level car IMO, just as Mercedes needs the Kompresser and whatnot. They are cars used to get younger buyers to be lifelong customes. Honda killed the Prelude off b/c the didn't want a "Honda" car <Lude> taking sales from an "Acura" anymore <RSX>...the s2000 is in a different market so not such a big worry in losing RSX sales to it. IMO.

RedEU

yea, true same thing in UK, where CTR ia available instead of ITR, prolly due to the closeness in performance & price.. another thing is honda has spent so much on motor racing, both on indy + f1, shouldnt there be some road going products that relates to the racing heritage? this is one thing i dont understand. toyota as well, theres practically no sports cars.

CivicsRdBest

I believe it also follows the market. In Japan, in general, small cars are accepeted over SUV's. They can sell both the CTR and ITR there. Here in the States, coupes are very popular, but hatchbacks aren't, so they offer the great performing RSX, even though it is not an ITR.

LogicWavelength

iTrader: (2)

Ok... I had posted this information a while back... but here it goes again. I work for Acura and had a conversation with the east coast rep. His statement was that the RSX is possibly going to have a type r run just before they either kill or redesign it. That is because Acura NA treats the RSX as a Honda, and they are planning something like Hondas "SE" in the last year of that body style.

Next, he also had a word on Honda... In the current market, major companies are trying to appeal to the "fast growing" sport compact market. As it fades into mainstream just as we all start to move on, car companies in the US are producing stuff like the Cobalt, SRT-4, WRX STi, etc.

In order for Honda to keep its hold on the compact car market, it cannot lose this crowd (as being a significant percentage of small car buyers) so it will have to step it up... Honda will never be a "performance" company, but will rather make sportier cars to stay competetive. the 8th gen civic is going to have a K series. even if its a (K18?) or something, it will be DOHC. This will aid the aftermarket in cranking HP more effectively.

So i disagree... Honda is not going to get smaller and more "green" but rather step it up... but not change its image to that of a sporty, performance driven brand. It will simply beef up its cars enough (probably only select trim levels) to stay current with its market.

some of your points are correct - i am not flaming your post, but my information is coming from the company itself. LOL Hope you found it informative.

evopanop

iTrader: (4)

That had to be the most informative post I've read in a LONG time. Also, your sig RULES! I think I need to bust out the digi cam and go take some better pics of my car... think I could bribe you into making me a sig like that? haha