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Ok guys, the Dezod kit will begin for me now. I need to first choose a turbocharger and so far I'm bouncing between 2....

Garrett T3 Super 60 -

.63 AR
T3 Flange
Super 60 Trim
Internal wastegate
Approx 320-330whp

OR (what I like more, just more money...)

The Garret GT28RS "the disco potato"

T25 flange, dual-ball bearing turbo
60 AR, 60mm trim, stage one turbine wheel
Internal wastegate
Approx 350whp output


Any other suggestions guys? Or between the two, if you have input on it...

Lemme know!

 
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a .63 a/r is pretty big. lag is gonna be terrible

 
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i say just get the t3 super 60 port it out and you would be very happy with it

 
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I can get the Super 60 with a .48 AR, thanks for noticing that!

Anyone else?

 
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do that

 
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yeah super 60 .48, should be sweet on there

 
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I have a t28 and love itl....i think that its a great turbo (.60 a/r, .48 a/r). Its not laggy (fully spooled at 3600rpm) and has good punch on top end

 
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gt28rs all the way

 
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Put the two side by side...

then pick the T28 because you'll see the difference. T3 super 60 exhaust housing is unneccessarilly big for what it will flow on a 1.7 imho.

 
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IMO, that is the best set-up for our cars

 
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im leaning more torwards the T28 for myself for no other reason than the size

 
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this is a lil harder than i though... if i go with the t28 then its a t25 flange, meaning i can eventually upgrade to an HKS GT turbo, but on the same note dezod would have to order a t25 flange instead of the t28 flange.

Are all t28s water cooled?

 
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alot of the GT turbos are watercooled. But I know everyone is gonna jump onme for this saying"it's too big, crazy lag ect..." But I say go with a T3/T4 I always thought they were too big and too much lag, till i rode in spdrcrchks car. @8 psi it is putting down 200whp which is the best numbers I know to date at that boost. it spools at about 3500rpms and you can just feel the continuous increase in power all the way to redline. Not like alot of turbo 7th where the power eventualy levels off and stays there till redline. But this turbo was niceness. im swearing that T3/T4 is where it's at!

 
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The HKS turbos are nice but simply slightly modified Garrett or DSM turbos. Not worth the $$ IMO.

All of the 28R series are water cooled.

 
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Cant the water cooling be bypassed/not used? and just run the oil feed/drain?

 
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why wouldn't you want to use the water cooling? it extends the life of your turbo quite a bit.

 
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Not that you would WANT to not water cool it, but you could do it for simplicty

 
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Yes but have you driven a car with 200whp from 5000-7500rpms? I'd rather have a turbo that makes 200whp for a 2000rpm+ range than a turbo that makes 200whp in a 750rpm range. It doesn't take a scientist to know which will be the faster car.

 
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yeah but @ 8 psi im driving a car that is gonna run 200whp and your gonna be running about 186 whp. you'll spool and pull off the line but once im in the power band im gonna stay in that 5000-7000 range.if your pulling 200whp you have more boost or more work done then the t3/t4 would pull even more power. what good is 200whp at 2000rpm? other than spiining tire. I launch at 3000 so i would get a nice launch like I do now and run right into boost. it's that almighty sacrifice. either fast spool and off the line power or high end power and greater top end HP. It's all about your personal preference.

 
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oh, when did system efficiency become based on turbos being too big? It's old school thinking... the T3/T4 is like the old huge power 2JZGTE HKS kits. New HKS kits for 2JZ spoool way quicker, and provide broader power band, and more power than the certain parts oversized turbos of the past. Things get updated, the T3/T4 is one thing that should be updated on Hondas. I'm not implying peak power at 2000rpms.... I'm implying that it occur at a more acceptable point than with T3/T4. There are plenty of choices where the power band will actually be of use so you to you on the street and not fall off at the top... unless you drive around town looking for races at 5500rpms+ and make excuses for every race that doesn't occur 'when you're ready'.... then have at 'er.

Even at 15psi where the turbo should have overcome a lot of inefficincies in the system, the last dyno I saw still showed the T3/T4 50whp less than the magical big number that every dyno queen likes to quote (in this case 302whp) at just 5000rpms.... 4000rpms was brutal. I would like to see your friends dyno where peak power is from 5000-redline as I haven't seen T3/T4s follow that yet... and I would reallllly like to see if it is even making anywhere close to 150 (or heck, 130whp) at 4000rpms.

I've been there, done that and moved on to better systems as I don't drive around at 5500rpms looking for battles on the street. Get into any car with instant response and torque (i.e.) any M series BMW and you'll probably think it's twice as fast as your friends Honda. And at anything below 5500rpms, it would be.

Having something that spools quicker will also make the car easier to control. If you get off the gas with your t3/t4 and fall out of the powerband... again you lose the race. Too many ways to lose a race. It's all about making the best compromise for street/strip... and the old T3/T4 really doesn't provide enough useable power gain on most small displacement engines to make me consider it.

 
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I dunno I have a T3/T04 right now. I still like the turbo, it spools decently with a turbo back exhaust and no cat. My electronic boost controller helped too... I can spool below 2000rpms now, and it really hits hard just over 4000rpms. If I have it set for 7psi, and floor it in second gear, I'm making 5psi by 3500rpms so it ain't too bad. I'm just looking for more instant response because drag is not a concern of mine. I'm looking to get some controllable power for coming out of the corners.

 
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I know what point your coming from, But alot of people also drive their cars on a daily basis. Having a gt28 that is going to spool up at 2000rpm for a daily driver is putting some unneeded stress on the engine. im not sure too many people wanna be in traffic and spooling up on and off as soon as they step on the gas. I like the fact that I can shift at just below 3000rpm's and not be in boost when im just going to work or drivinng around town. Do you want to be at full boost all the time? do you race everywhere? It'sa know fact that when you put forced induction on an NA motor that it is going to decrease the life of the enigne. So for a daily driver I belive I like the T3/T4. Im not trying to get anyone heated around here, just stating the high points of the t3/t4.(there are ways to increase spool up time too) But no doubt a gt28 is gonna spool up alot faster and make quick power but on a daily driver thats not what people are always looking for.

 
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If you have an EBC you can always turn the boost way down?

 
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but you will always be making boost there no matter what. on the t3/t4 you won;t start to spool before you shift so it is more like driving stock.

 
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Yes I see your point and I believe you are correct. I just want to know how everyone with a T25 or T28 do it?

 
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Or you can just not get on the gas as much?

Keep in mind guys that a turbo drastically improves the efficiency of an engine. On the highway you BARELY give it gas and it will nicely accelerate on it's on. To me, that's a lot easier on the motor than giving it, say, 80% throttle just to get up to speed. This all comes back down to tuning. A good fuel curve and mild boost, and your engine will be sitting happy. Just keep it cool and change the oil.

 
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super 60 all the way

 
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I'm not convinced that you know where i'm coming from. Peak tensile/compressive stresses (TDC/BDC) increase as square of rpm. It is therefore less stress on your motor to make peak power earlier in the rpm band. You keep going back to 2000rpms and it's a moot point. I wish you wouldn't as it is confusing the issue. I'm trying to point out that for a daily driver, having that broader power band, even 1000rpms earlier would be 10 times more enjoyable and with a properly sized turbo you could make more average power and be the quicker car on the street, at the track, AND still maintain your gas mileage/life of motor just if not better as now you are not revving to 5500rpms just to make decent power. Sorry for the run-on sentence.

The fact is that guys are putting on a turbo that makes my old 1.3 DOHC Suzuki with stock motor look like it has a 5th cylinder, has the better flowing head, and would be more enjoyable to drive at 10psi (one of those being true as it has a 600lb. weight advantage and made over 193whp peak at 11psi). Even though the turbo on my 1.3 was not ideal, it still makes just as much at 4000rpms (despite aforementioned handicaps), more power at 4500rpms, at 5000 dip in torque due to running stock head at over double it's stock hp, and from there it's all fun and games again. I can gaurantee that if I built a system for the D17 it would make 200whp while running very very close if not same boost as the T3/T4, would get good gas mileage, and would be a very reliable set up as efficiency is more than just a big turbo. I know my Swift still maintained over 40mpg on the highway... maybe there is something with knowing how to tune as well. If you are driving above 4000rpms on the highway, you should be watching the cops on your tail, not your gas mileage.

If you want to talk about bad and 2000rpms being bad on the motor talk nitrous, not a properly sized turbo.... nitrous is bad because of the rate of change of torque... it's like taking a sledge hammer to the rotating internal components. A turbo that you can control with smooth power delivery on, is best. There are just too many circumstances on the street for the t3/t4 to lose out, and so far I don't see the high points you mention as I have never experienced those problems, even on a turbo that spools 1000rpms earlier.

As for traction.... the ol Swiffer making just as much power as low boost T3/T4s in 600lb. lighter shell had little problems with respect to change in torque while in gear. Only issues were between gears and trying to get off the line... just as would be the issues with a t3/t4. The benefit going to the turbo that spooled 1000rpms earlier in case traction ever caught at the wrong time as the vehicle would otherwise 'bog'.

Taken into consideration that I'm positive I could build a system that makes just as much peak power, makes it earlier and longer, still maintains excellent driveability around town, provides opportunity to win a few more races when not at 5500rpms, still gets excellent gas mileage, all on a turbo that spools 1000rpms sooner... where are the high points?

 
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well i'll have it all installed by the end of sept. i have a few short cuts to speed up spool time, i'll be sure to scan the dyno run and show you where it's making boost. It starts at about 3200 rpms which isn't too high. im looking to make in the 300whp range and a t28 isn't gonna cut it and still be in effeciency range, but a t3 super 60 prob. would but i've heard that on our cars from a few members that they spool at about 3ooo anyway. I know a GT28R would do it and give me some quick spool and good power but thats a little too much $$$$ for me. so I don't think this is a bad choice. I may go t3 super 60 later on but im gonna try out the t3 t4 and i can always just swap out the turbo later. Am i right for the amount of power that my goal is?

 
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Well, I'd still prefer to try something like an EVO 16G or big 16G over the T3/T4 for even that power level... although I do understand cost issues. On the bright side, a good new turbo is something you should only need to buy once for many many years (and perhaps several engines. ). I just think people should start to explore other options than the T3/T4 as there should be many a 'hot' combination for street/strip cars.