andyman97

iTrader: (14)

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. Rufus, you have to open kmanager and open your map to change anything. Sorry, I figured you knew that already. Do you have a copy of the map that you're running right now?

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

It was loaded from another laptop not the one I'm on. The car is 100% stock right now, and we even had to guess on stock injector cc's. The car also doesn't seem to start as quickly as it did with the d17y ECU. I remember the adjustable timing mark being VERY slightly off from zero. I wonder if that combined with guessing on injectors could be the issue with that. I knew it was betweeen 240-270.

Either way, the car actaully gets turned after the turbo goes on, so right now I'm just in discovery mode.

andyman97

iTrader: (14)

Those things aren't going to cause a cel for an o2 sensor. You can get him to email you the map you're using or you can just download it from your ecu and play with it from there.

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

Oh I understand just making new points. I'll play with it tonight.

skipbarber

iTrader: (34)

it's actually really easy.

andyman97

iTrader: (14)

Lol, if you don't think kpro is user friendly, just try using the AEM EMS. Did that work out for you Rufus?

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

Eh just waiting to buy a wideband rsx o2. Anyone have one for sale?

mr_fobster

iTrader: (16)

^^ i do but its from a 05-06

ok so lemme get this straight i can use a 04-05 dx primary o2 as my oem wideband 02 instead of a rsx o2 for my k swap? or is this mainly for the guys with kpro and a d17?

sorry kinds brain dead right now from work today.....

xproductionz

iTrader: (14)

FYI: dont ever run no o2 sensors if its a daily driven car. Its good for a temporary thing but not all the time.

When you dyno tune a car you tune the upper rpms... essentially roughly 3000 and up depending on the tuner. Your o2 sensor is what keeps the a/f ratio within spec when your on and off the gas in daily driven circumstances.

If only some of my customers who have tuned k20's in there cars can attest to the fact of piston rings going bad. Seals going and so forth

andyman97

iTrader: (14)

I disagree. I haven't run close loop at all, either with AEM or Kpro. It depends on how well your tune is setup.

When you're paying for a tune, you're paying to have the computer tuned for all load and pm positions, not just a few.

And yes, all of the newer Hona widebands are interchangeable, they all read on a 0-5V scale. There may be some wiring involved but they will work.

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

I don't wee why it wouldn' work. What do you want for it?

HondaLuver

iTrader: (17)

i love my kpoo

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

Temo where the crap have you been? You still on Myspace?

xproductionz

iTrader: (14)

Remember you are talking to a guy who does dyno tuning. A tune is only done on WOT. Partial throttle is where your o2 sensor kicks in. Closed Loop's whole principle is utilizing the primary o2 sensor in achieving a constant 14.7 a/f ratio.

I could get the worlds top tuners in here to say the same thing but we know thats not gona happen... and it wont do any good because your nothing has gone wrong with your setup yet.

Long story short its not healthy. Its like pumping 87 gas into a performance car. Its works but you know u shouldnt.

Another FYI.... honda sensors are not full wideband... there known to be as semi-wideband because TRUE wideband uses a 5-wire sensor versus the standard 4-wire the rsx 02-04 uses. If i remeber corretly the lowest the stock sensor can read is 11.3ish.. around that ball park where some after makrtet ones can go as low as in the 9's.

To help you out in getting the knowledge of o2 sensors out to the public here is a general rundown

Narrow band o2 sensors work by the difference in oxygen levels between the exhaust gas and outside air creating a voltage difference across a ZrO2 Nernst cell. They don't require any power to produce an output, and the ECU can just read the voltage from the narrow band sensor.

Wideband o2 sensors add an oxygen pump cell and reference cell with heater to the Nernst cell. A controller regulates the current through the oxygen pump cell and also the heater current. The ECU cannot read a wideband sensor and there must use a wideband controller to run the o2 sensor. The wideband o2 sensor does not produce a voltage, but rather the amount of current through the oxygen cell tells us the AF ratio. The amount of current varies by o2 sensor but some are as low as +- 1mA full scale.


... read this
http://hondata.com/techclosed.html


i'll post up more after my nap.. been up all nite...

ronaldo9

iTrader: (6)

Sticky that link that was a great read!!!+1

andyman97

iTrader: (14)

The only thing I have to really continue disagreement with is the tuning part of your post.

Closed loop is a tool to help you achieve the best driveability. You still have cells within your fuel and ignition map to get the optimal throttle response and fuel economy when driving partial throttle. A tuner can't predict every condition, such as ect's at startup and intake temps for all season, so the tune at partial throttle is set for the conditions when the car is on the dyno.

When the car is off the dyno, conditions change from day to day, which can alter your afr's, hence the purpose of running closed loop, just for better driveability.

So you're telling me you don't even set the ignition timing for partial throttle driving? If that's the case, how are you going to get a car with a high lift cam to even run, because it won't run off the same ignition timing as a stock motor would?

As for the world's best tuners go, I know quite a few tuners throughout different parts of the country and have had my car tuned by some very well known names like Jason Herrerra (st00pidfast), Tony Paolo (t1racedevelopment), and they ALL have tuned my partial throttle.

Now I'm not a tuner and don't pretend to be but I'm not the average guy who has no idea what's going on with his engine....

xproductionz

iTrader: (14)

Well you gotta remember i aint in this for the argument nor am i looking for one..

What i was trying to get at was the post you originally made about not never needing an o2 sensor. Your taking it beyond what i originally was trying to state.. im not talking about cams, nor am i talking about ignition. I used tuning from a general perspective thats why i didnt go into detail about it. If you look at my original posts my concern was the fact about the o2 sensor and keeping the car in closed loop versus open loop in an on/off gas situation, temp, and other conditions that arise from DD

Im talking about how from a tuning perspective you shouldnt be driving in open loop nor without an o2 sensor for long periods of time. Its a temporary thing

Now i know you aint a tuner. At the same time i am a tuner but however i dont pretend to be the greatest tuner. Just adding my 2 cents and situations based on experiences

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

So how long is it safe to be running without an o2 cuz I've been doing it for a week and potentially may need to do it for 2 more. Car isn't under boost though. Once the turbo goes on, the car gets tuned with an o2

andyman97

iTrader: (14)

I have not been using an o2 sensor for the past 9 months. My compression across all 4 cylinders is within 5 psi of 150.

mr_fobster

iTrader: (16)

pm'ed you lemme know....

HondaLuver

iTrader: (17)

im over at k20a.org, clubrsx.com, and myspace. lol, i can't take this d17 crap anymore...

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=142179651

xproductionz

iTrader: (14)

same here..

k20a.org
built4race.com
clubrsx.com
mypsace.com
hondata forums

haha.. all with the same user name

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

I want to order my o2 today, can someone tell me the various sensors I can use? It's an 02 CRV 5 SPEED ECU.

I've been told I need an 02-04 RSX Primary, but what else works? I've also read that the 05 Si uses the same o2. Can someone confirm/deny this?

andyman97

iTrader: (14)

Any Honda air fuel sensor. Cheapest are from 04-05 civic dx.

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

Are those wideband? I thought although they can be a wideband, they still throw different voltage.

ronaldo9

iTrader: (6)

Yes, 04-05 is wideband read Andyman's post on this. Sorry if that sounded rude.

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

Not at all. I'm curious to see if costs are less.

Rufus

iTrader: (17)

Wow all other o2's are $200 while the 04 DX is 130.95 + tax. That just saved me $70!

xproductionz

iTrader: (14)

thats how much you can get a rsx sensor roughly for

xproductionz

iTrader: (14)

Thats misleading info right there