Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
03-15-2007
#42
Registered!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Age: 46
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 228 
so think about it, if you get a pnp head might as well get a block guard.
Ok get a turbo kit and a pnp head and you will be killing it. Also for people with the XFC I have been working on 577cc injectors on a built d17 and the idle that ppl are worried about is not an issue. We have a idle of 14.2 to 15.2 a/f ratio....more to come on that in the future....
Ok get a turbo kit and a pnp head and you will be killing it. Also for people with the XFC I have been working on 577cc injectors on a built d17 and the idle that ppl are worried about is not an issue. We have a idle of 14.2 to 15.2 a/f ratio....more to come on that in the future....
03-16-2007
#45
Registered!!
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Destin, FL
Age: 40
Posts: 153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
03-16-2007
#46
7thgen Power Maker
iTrader: (74)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY, US
Posts: 9,048
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 0 Well power potential could mean a lot if well done and the head is rather restrictive. Example: Our PnP on the D17, making the same peak power on less boost (5 PSI > 3-3.5 PSI) and at less RPMS, 5500 > 4K. That is a net of 20-40whp on 5 PSI. Imagine what 10 is like?
03-28-2007
#49
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
This question really depends on your power goals. Of course you'll make more power with cutting out any restriction. Honestly, if you aren't looking to make over 350 whp, I'd say you don't need it. A stage III cam and pistons and rods are more than enough to get you to that mark with the right turbo. If you're looking 400-450, it may not be a bad investment. I will hopefully find out soon enough.
But look at it from a realistic standpoint. Do you want 250 whp from your d17 and that's it? Get a good t3 super 60 and basic turbo kit with a good management system and call it a day. If that's all you want, you don't need a cam, huge turbo, huge injectors, maxed fuel system, port and polished head, etc. Its overkill. Why spend money on something that's useless?
Say you want around 300 whp and you're good with that. Get all of the above, bigger, better turbo, match your fuel system to the power needs, stage III cam and valvetrain and pistons and rods. With that, you should be well capable of 300.
Say you want 350, do the same as above but make sure you invest in the best parts you can get your hands on as far as flow goes for intake and exhaust.
Basically what I'm saying is the head's ports aren't the first thing to limit power, other things will. Start by looking at what you want, what you need and what you can realistically afford. If you're nowhere near 300 whp, paying to port and polish a head isn't going to give you the best bang for your buck, wait until you need the mod before you're ready to jump on the bandwagon and say, I WANT A PNP HEAD!!!!
Dyno results coming soon?
But look at it from a realistic standpoint. Do you want 250 whp from your d17 and that's it? Get a good t3 super 60 and basic turbo kit with a good management system and call it a day. If that's all you want, you don't need a cam, huge turbo, huge injectors, maxed fuel system, port and polished head, etc. Its overkill. Why spend money on something that's useless?
Say you want around 300 whp and you're good with that. Get all of the above, bigger, better turbo, match your fuel system to the power needs, stage III cam and valvetrain and pistons and rods. With that, you should be well capable of 300.
Say you want 350, do the same as above but make sure you invest in the best parts you can get your hands on as far as flow goes for intake and exhaust.
Basically what I'm saying is the head's ports aren't the first thing to limit power, other things will. Start by looking at what you want, what you need and what you can realistically afford. If you're nowhere near 300 whp, paying to port and polish a head isn't going to give you the best bang for your buck, wait until you need the mod before you're ready to jump on the bandwagon and say, I WANT A PNP HEAD!!!!
Dyno results coming soon?
Last edited by andyman97; 03-28-2007 at 10:04 PM.
03-28-2007
#50
Registered!!
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: May 2006
Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey
Age: 41
Posts: 1,713
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 257 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
Hey sometimes I think you can really be an **** to ppl but I can honestly say your last post was probably the most honest and truth statement I've ever heard on here. I think alot of ppl including myself are thankful for all you've done with your car and the knowledge you bring to the site. I'm glad you've managed to stay to school us noobs and help us learn with you. 
03-29-2007
#51
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
I'm only an *** to people who deserve it. If you post in a thread a bunch of ridiculous misinformation, you deserve to get owned so that next time you know what you're talking about before opening your mouth. That's the only thing about this site I"ve ever not liked. Someone will troll the forum for a couple of weeks or a month or two, then suddenly, they know everything there is to know about turbo systems. It takes time and experience to learn about engines. Don't get me wrong, I will help anyone who has an intelligent question, just ask boilermaker, he'll tell you. But if you don't know what you're talking about and start posting garbage, put on the flamesuit. Nothing personal, just don't post bs and there will be no problems from me.
Anyways, back on topic. Paul, dyno?
Anyways, back on topic. Paul, dyno?
03-29-2007
#52
Registered!!
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2006
Age: 46
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 228 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
Sorry for the delay of results for everyone. We have been really busy at the shop and also had a death in the shops family. So as soon as we get back to full running i will get some more results
04-02-2007
#53
7thgen Power Maker
iTrader: (74)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY, US
Posts: 9,048
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 0 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
Sorry, forgot bout this thread. Trust me Andy, dynos are in the works. We can not get enough fuel on 3 PSI past 4K RPMS with RSX injectors and a Walbro pump. So, soon as we compromise a new fuel system, we will post the full 5 PSI. I anticipate about 30-40whp gain on 5 PSI.
04-02-2007
#54
7thgen Power Maker
iTrader: (74)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY, US
Posts: 9,048
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 0 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
This question really depends on your power goals. Of course you'll make more power with cutting out any restriction.
But look at it from a realistic standpoint. Do you want 250 whp from your d17 and that's it? Get a good t3 super 60 and basic turbo kit with a good management system and call it a day. If that's all you want, you don't need a cam, huge turbo, huge injectors, maxed fuel system, port and polished head, etc. Its overkill. Why spend money on something that's useless?
Say you want around 300 whp and you're good with that. Get all of the above, bigger, better turbo, match your fuel system to the power needs, stage III cam and valvetrain and pistons and rods. With that, you should be well capable of 300.
But look at it from a realistic standpoint. Do you want 250 whp from your d17 and that's it? Get a good t3 super 60 and basic turbo kit with a good management system and call it a day. If that's all you want, you don't need a cam, huge turbo, huge injectors, maxed fuel system, port and polished head, etc. Its overkill. Why spend money on something that's useless?
Say you want around 300 whp and you're good with that. Get all of the above, bigger, better turbo, match your fuel system to the power needs, stage III cam and valvetrain and pistons and rods. With that, you should be well capable of 300.
With respect to the head. Goals are VERY much paced into this item. However, almost every owner on here wants 200whp at a minimum. So if we can show that for our S1 kit with a PnP head @ 5 PSI delivers those results, I could safely say that fits into anyone's goals whether it is 200-500whp. It's time to step this game up a bit. No more tinkering around. 200whp will be a bare minimum to expect from the D17 over the next 2-3 months. Trust me. The world has no idea what is gonna hit them.
04-03-2007
#55
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
The only reason for my changes is because its been more or less uncharted territory. I had no idea what snags I'd hit on the way. Honestly, the only REAL extra money I've spent was on tuning and the exhaust manifold, which wasn't available at the time I put my setup together. The only other things I've done have been add-ons, not replacements, except for injectors.
So it's not like I've spent extra thousands of dollars replacing this part or that part. Also, like I said, it's not like there was a model to go off of for what parts will give you what on a d17, the info simply wasn't there and I had nobody to turn to for answers on what exactly I would need to do what. That isn't the case now. Why spend 1200 on a head when you can spend half that on a cam and valvetrain if you only want 300 whp? Its not a necessity is all that I'm saying. You know as well as I do that making power is in the head. As should anyone else that reads this. But I'm saying it isn't necessary for certain people.
You're talking about someone wanting 200 whp. What possible reason could there be to spend that kind of money on headwork to reach 200 whp at 5 psi instead of 6? You don't even need pistons or rods at that power level, let alone a cam. Why would you even consider spending another 1200? That's why I keep going to power goals. If you want to start at 200 whp, then one day, eventually reach 400, go for it when you can afford it. But there is a big part of the problem. The reason alot of people keep and boost d17's instead of k swaps is because of the cost.
As well as you know me, you know good and well I'm a bargain shopper when it comes to parts. I don't want to spend money I don't need to spend, EVER. That's the viewpoint I'm taking here. That's the viewpoint alot of people take. While its true, you get what you pay for, the same part is the same part.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way knocking the head. It sounds like it will give some great flow advantages and help with higher hp aps. But I'm trying to inform people of the truth instead of letting everyone jump on the bandwagon of...oh, there's a new part out, let me hurry and try to buy it just because its hype, not because I really NEED it.
For people to think they "need" headwork for lower horsepower numbers is unrealistic, it isn't necessary.
So it's not like I've spent extra thousands of dollars replacing this part or that part. Also, like I said, it's not like there was a model to go off of for what parts will give you what on a d17, the info simply wasn't there and I had nobody to turn to for answers on what exactly I would need to do what. That isn't the case now. Why spend 1200 on a head when you can spend half that on a cam and valvetrain if you only want 300 whp? Its not a necessity is all that I'm saying. You know as well as I do that making power is in the head. As should anyone else that reads this. But I'm saying it isn't necessary for certain people.
You're talking about someone wanting 200 whp. What possible reason could there be to spend that kind of money on headwork to reach 200 whp at 5 psi instead of 6? You don't even need pistons or rods at that power level, let alone a cam. Why would you even consider spending another 1200? That's why I keep going to power goals. If you want to start at 200 whp, then one day, eventually reach 400, go for it when you can afford it. But there is a big part of the problem. The reason alot of people keep and boost d17's instead of k swaps is because of the cost.
As well as you know me, you know good and well I'm a bargain shopper when it comes to parts. I don't want to spend money I don't need to spend, EVER. That's the viewpoint I'm taking here. That's the viewpoint alot of people take. While its true, you get what you pay for, the same part is the same part.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in no way knocking the head. It sounds like it will give some great flow advantages and help with higher hp aps. But I'm trying to inform people of the truth instead of letting everyone jump on the bandwagon of...oh, there's a new part out, let me hurry and try to buy it just because its hype, not because I really NEED it.
For people to think they "need" headwork for lower horsepower numbers is unrealistic, it isn't necessary.
Last edited by andyman97; 04-03-2007 at 12:57 PM.
04-03-2007
#56
7thgen Power Maker
iTrader: (74)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY, US
Posts: 9,048
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 0 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
The only reason for my changes is because its been more or less uncharted territory. I had no idea what snags I'd hit on the way. Honestly, the only REAL extra money I've spent was on tuning and the exhaust manifold, which wasn't available at the time I put my setup together. The only other things I've done have been add-ons, not replacements, except for injectors.
So it's not like I've spent extra thousands of dollars replacing this part or that part. Also, like I said, it's not like there was a model to go off of for what parts will give you what on a d17, the info simply wasn't there and I had nobody to turn to for answers on what exactly I would need to do what. That isn't the case now. Why spend 1200 on a head when you can spend half that on a cam and valvetrain if you only want 300 whp? Its not a necessity is all that I'm saying. You know as well as I do that making power is in the head. As should anyone else that reads this. But I'm saying it isn't necessary for certain people.
So it's not like I've spent extra thousands of dollars replacing this part or that part. Also, like I said, it's not like there was a model to go off of for what parts will give you what on a d17, the info simply wasn't there and I had nobody to turn to for answers on what exactly I would need to do what. That isn't the case now. Why spend 1200 on a head when you can spend half that on a cam and valvetrain if you only want 300 whp? Its not a necessity is all that I'm saying. You know as well as I do that making power is in the head. As should anyone else that reads this. But I'm saying it isn't necessary for certain people.
The air delivery and exit of a turbocharged vehicle is heavily wheated by the system and it's components performance and engineering. The intake and exhaust of the system both begin in the same area if I may with the turbo charger. It sucks the air, compresses it and shoots to the IC (if intercooled), and then is cooled, condensed and travels through the charge pipes to the TB. From the TB it shoots into the IM then is divided into the cylinders of the combustion chamber through the head of the vehicle. Now, that it's there the camshaft profile and tuning will dictate how the combustion occurs with the firing order and then the gases are exited into the turbo and the process starts all over again. So, let me back pedal through this ok?
You want a BIG turbo to FLOW a lot, a LARGE intercooler to cool a lot and flow the air of the HUGE turbo, charge pipes to move all that air to the TB, the TB to have it accept more air per plate shift, have the intake manifold hold and move as much air as possible to get to a RESTRICTIVE head that will hinder flow with a camshaft profile that will move the air only as fast as the tune and the head will allow it.
To say a cam is a substitute for cheaper power and the head is not part of people's goals either shows ignorance, honda cheapy mentality, lack of understanding of a turbocharged combustion engine or all of the above. We understand that the item is not in everyone's budget, BUT can play a VERY intricate part if elected no matter the power level and goal.
04-03-2007
#57
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
Well I guess we just have to agree to disagree. You want sales, which I can understand but I think its the blind leading the blind here. Why buy a gt30 turbo if you only want 250 whp? Doesn't make much sense does it?
04-04-2007
#58
7thgen Power Maker
iTrader: (74)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY, US
Posts: 9,048
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 0 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
04-06-2007
#60
Turbo Guru
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: Port-n-polished dezod*updated*
True. We can gadly agree to disagree. Not quite sure what you meant about the blind comment, but ask anyone even not in the field of heads and knows performance. All of what I posted is legitimate info, which can not really be disputed. These units all work in harmony, which is the very premise our performance is acheived to begin with. Who said anything about a GT30?
