KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
#31
Turbo Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner. Rufus, you have to open kmanager and open your map to change anything. Sorry, I figured you knew that already. Do you have a copy of the map that you're running right now?
#32
Premium Member
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 355 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
Either way, the car actaully gets turned after the turbo goes on, so right now I'm just in discovery mode.
#33
Turbo Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
Those things aren't going to cause a cel for an o2 sensor. You can get him to email you the map you're using or you can just download it from your ecu and play with it from there.
#34
#36
Turbo Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
Lol, if you don't think kpro is user friendly, just try using the AEM EMS. Did that work out for you Rufus?
#37
#38
Registered!!
iTrader: (16)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: vallejo, cali (nor cal)
Posts: 2,046
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 270 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
^^ i do but its from a 05-06
ok so lemme get this straight i can use a 04-05 dx primary o2 as my oem wideband 02 instead of a rsx o2 for my k swap? or is this mainly for the guys with kpro and a d17?
sorry kinds brain dead right now from work today.....
ok so lemme get this straight i can use a 04-05 dx primary o2 as my oem wideband 02 instead of a rsx o2 for my k swap? or is this mainly for the guys with kpro and a d17?
sorry kinds brain dead right now from work today.....
#39
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 272 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
FYI: dont ever run no o2 sensors if its a daily driven car. Its good for a temporary thing but not all the time.
When you dyno tune a car you tune the upper rpms... essentially roughly 3000 and up depending on the tuner. Your o2 sensor is what keeps the a/f ratio within spec when your on and off the gas in daily driven circumstances.
If only some of my customers who have tuned k20's in there cars can attest to the fact of piston rings going bad. Seals going and so forth
When you dyno tune a car you tune the upper rpms... essentially roughly 3000 and up depending on the tuner. Your o2 sensor is what keeps the a/f ratio within spec when your on and off the gas in daily driven circumstances.
If only some of my customers who have tuned k20's in there cars can attest to the fact of piston rings going bad. Seals going and so forth
#40
Turbo Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
I disagree. I haven't run close loop at all, either with AEM or Kpro. It depends on how well your tune is setup.
When you're paying for a tune, you're paying to have the computer tuned for all load and pm positions, not just a few.
And yes, all of the newer Hona widebands are interchangeable, they all read on a 0-5V scale. There may be some wiring involved but they will work.
When you're paying for a tune, you're paying to have the computer tuned for all load and pm positions, not just a few.
And yes, all of the newer Hona widebands are interchangeable, they all read on a 0-5V scale. There may be some wiring involved but they will work.
#44
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 272 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
I disagree. I haven't run close loop at all, either with AEM or Kpro. It depends on how well your tune is setup.
When you're paying for a tune, you're paying to have the computer tuned for all load and pm positions, not just a few.
And yes, all of the newer Hona widebands are interchangeable, they all read on a 0-5V scale. There may be some wiring involved but they will work.
When you're paying for a tune, you're paying to have the computer tuned for all load and pm positions, not just a few.
And yes, all of the newer Hona widebands are interchangeable, they all read on a 0-5V scale. There may be some wiring involved but they will work.
I could get the worlds top tuners in here to say the same thing but we know thats not gona happen... and it wont do any good because your nothing has gone wrong with your setup yet.
Long story short its not healthy. Its like pumping 87 gas into a performance car. Its works but you know u shouldnt.
Another FYI.... honda sensors are not full wideband... there known to be as semi-wideband because TRUE wideband uses a 5-wire sensor versus the standard 4-wire the rsx 02-04 uses. If i remeber corretly the lowest the stock sensor can read is 11.3ish.. around that ball park where some after makrtet ones can go as low as in the 9's.
To help you out in getting the knowledge of o2 sensors out to the public here is a general rundown
Narrow band o2 sensors work by the difference in oxygen levels between the exhaust gas and outside air creating a voltage difference across a ZrO2 Nernst cell. They don't require any power to produce an output, and the ECU can just read the voltage from the narrow band sensor.
Wideband o2 sensors add an oxygen pump cell and reference cell with heater to the Nernst cell. A controller regulates the current through the oxygen pump cell and also the heater current. The ECU cannot read a wideband sensor and there must use a wideband controller to run the o2 sensor. The wideband o2 sensor does not produce a voltage, but rather the amount of current through the oxygen cell tells us the AF ratio. The amount of current varies by o2 sensor but some are as low as +- 1mA full scale.
... read this
http://hondata.com/techclosed.html
i'll post up more after my nap.. been up all nite...
#46
Turbo Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
The only thing I have to really continue disagreement with is the tuning part of your post.
Closed loop is a tool to help you achieve the best driveability. You still have cells within your fuel and ignition map to get the optimal throttle response and fuel economy when driving partial throttle. A tuner can't predict every condition, such as ect's at startup and intake temps for all season, so the tune at partial throttle is set for the conditions when the car is on the dyno.
When the car is off the dyno, conditions change from day to day, which can alter your afr's, hence the purpose of running closed loop, just for better driveability.
So you're telling me you don't even set the ignition timing for partial throttle driving? If that's the case, how are you going to get a car with a high lift cam to even run, because it won't run off the same ignition timing as a stock motor would?
As for the world's best tuners go, I know quite a few tuners throughout different parts of the country and have had my car tuned by some very well known names like Jason Herrerra (st00pidfast), Tony Paolo (t1racedevelopment), and they ALL have tuned my partial throttle.
Now I'm not a tuner and don't pretend to be but I'm not the average guy who has no idea what's going on with his engine....
Closed loop is a tool to help you achieve the best driveability. You still have cells within your fuel and ignition map to get the optimal throttle response and fuel economy when driving partial throttle. A tuner can't predict every condition, such as ect's at startup and intake temps for all season, so the tune at partial throttle is set for the conditions when the car is on the dyno.
When the car is off the dyno, conditions change from day to day, which can alter your afr's, hence the purpose of running closed loop, just for better driveability.
So you're telling me you don't even set the ignition timing for partial throttle driving? If that's the case, how are you going to get a car with a high lift cam to even run, because it won't run off the same ignition timing as a stock motor would?
As for the world's best tuners go, I know quite a few tuners throughout different parts of the country and have had my car tuned by some very well known names like Jason Herrerra (st00pidfast), Tony Paolo (t1racedevelopment), and they ALL have tuned my partial throttle.
Now I'm not a tuner and don't pretend to be but I'm not the average guy who has no idea what's going on with his engine....
#47
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 272 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
Well you gotta remember i aint in this for the argument nor am i looking for one..
What i was trying to get at was the post you originally made about not never needing an o2 sensor. Your taking it beyond what i originally was trying to state.. im not talking about cams, nor am i talking about ignition. I used tuning from a general perspective thats why i didnt go into detail about it. If you look at my original posts my concern was the fact about the o2 sensor and keeping the car in closed loop versus open loop in an on/off gas situation, temp, and other conditions that arise from DD
Im talking about how from a tuning perspective you shouldnt be driving in open loop nor without an o2 sensor for long periods of time. Its a temporary thing
Now i know you aint a tuner. At the same time i am a tuner but however i dont pretend to be the greatest tuner. Just adding my 2 cents and situations based on experiences
What i was trying to get at was the post you originally made about not never needing an o2 sensor. Your taking it beyond what i originally was trying to state.. im not talking about cams, nor am i talking about ignition. I used tuning from a general perspective thats why i didnt go into detail about it. If you look at my original posts my concern was the fact about the o2 sensor and keeping the car in closed loop versus open loop in an on/off gas situation, temp, and other conditions that arise from DD
Im talking about how from a tuning perspective you shouldnt be driving in open loop nor without an o2 sensor for long periods of time. Its a temporary thing
Now i know you aint a tuner. At the same time i am a tuner but however i dont pretend to be the greatest tuner. Just adding my 2 cents and situations based on experiences
Last edited by xproductionz; 03-02-2008 at 10:16 PM.
#48
Premium Member
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 355 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
So how long is it safe to be running without an o2 cuz I've been doing it for a week and potentially may need to do it for 2 more. Car isn't under boost though. Once the turbo goes on, the car gets tuned with an o2
#49
Turbo Guru
Thread Starter
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Rockville, MD
Age: 44
Posts: 4,078
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rep Power: 326 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
I have not been using an o2 sensor for the past 9 months. My compression across all 4 cylinders is within 5 psi of 150.
#51
Its a celebration bitches!
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: LA, CALi
Posts: 10,216
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 379 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
im over at k20a.org, clubrsx.com, and myspace. lol, i can't take this d17 crap anymore...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=142179651
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=142179651
#52
iTrader: (14)
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 3,120
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 272 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
im over at k20a.org, clubrsx.com, and myspace. lol, i can't take this d17 crap anymore...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=142179651
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...ndid=142179651
k20a.org
built4race.com
clubrsx.com
mypsace.com
hondata forums
haha.. all with the same user name
#53
Premium Member
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 355 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
I want to order my o2 today, can someone tell me the various sensors I can use? It's an 02 CRV 5 SPEED ECU.
I've been told I need an 02-04 RSX Primary, but what else works? I've also read that the 05 Si uses the same o2. Can someone confirm/deny this?
I've been told I need an 02-04 RSX Primary, but what else works? I've also read that the 05 Si uses the same o2. Can someone confirm/deny this?
#55
Premium Member
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 355 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
Are those wideband? I thought although they can be a wideband, they still throw different voltage.
#58
Premium Member
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario
Posts: 9,137
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Rep Power: 355 Re: KPro and o2 sensors? WTF? Learn how it all works...
Wow all other o2's are $200 while the 04 DX is 130.95 + tax. That just saved me $70!