should i use e-manage or vafc2 on my setup? TURB SWAP QUESTION
09-17-2005
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should i use e-manage or vafc2 on my setup? TURB SWAP QUESTION
i just bought a turbo kit off 2k1civic17"gabe its the tsi kit (not sure if its the extreme kit but i guess thats all they sell for d17??) it has 2 extra injectors and im wondering whats best for me to get?
e-manage or vafc-2??? i can get either one at like 35% off or something
i need whichever one is best for me because im doing an ex headswap so ill also need it to be capable to be wired in to control vtec so i dont need the ex ecu (i know vafc-2 can do this but can e-manage do this too?) also if i use one of these will i have to toss out my current fuel management thing?(cheapo one came with kit)
this kit came with a garret m24 (i was told this is same thing as t25) can i just swap this turbo out with a t3/t4 or would i need to do any slight mods or is it just impossible?
e-manage or vafc-2??? i can get either one at like 35% off or something
i need whichever one is best for me because im doing an ex headswap so ill also need it to be capable to be wired in to control vtec so i dont need the ex ecu (i know vafc-2 can do this but can e-manage do this too?) also if i use one of these will i have to toss out my current fuel management thing?(cheapo one came with kit)
this kit came with a garret m24 (i was told this is same thing as t25) can i just swap this turbo out with a t3/t4 or would i need to do any slight mods or is it just impossible?
09-17-2005
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junk the extra injectors, upgrade your current ones and run them with the emanage..best practice i think.
09-17-2005
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As far as between the two for fuel/ignition management the e-manage is superior. I dont have Vtec on mine, but as i recall the e-manage is supposed to be able to control it. You may want to search 7thgencivic.com some more As far as turbo upgrade i would suggest GT28R, or possibly GT28RS both may require min piping re-fabrication to the turbo , T3 wont bolt up to the manifold!
Originally Posted by tfnaaf
As far as between the two for fuel/ignition management the e-manage is superior. I dont have Vtec on mine, but as i recall the e-manage is supposed to be able to control it. You may want to search 7thgencivic.com some more
Last edited by tfnaaf; 09-17-2005 at 06:40 PM.
09-17-2005
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Rep Power: 256 I dont think there is m24 turbo exists..Why would you think that this is what you have???
I know 2k1civic17"gabe has/had TSI extreme with t25 ball bearing turbo.
As far as upgrading your existing torbo, even to t28, dodnt even think about it without moddifying your current TSI manifold and donpipe. t28 has t3 size compressor housing and to accept it you will have to position turbo on a slight angle to the engine block. Oh, well, if you want to go upgrade route, then - you might want to just sell this kit and buy the whole new one with bigger turbo.
What you have now, as it is, good street turbo kit, you dont need no fuel managment upgrades at all, none.
You can run 10psi easy on LX with good tune.
P.S. You will be definately recomended to get e-manage with rsx injectors.... this combo - 8 psi MAX, less than what you have already !!!
off topic, I know 2k1civic17"gabe has his kit run with MAP black box. I will tell this - dont use it, not worth it - idle is rough and you will need to cut wiring to connect it. For the best results use "Synapse missing link". Buy one form dezod he has best price. Trust me, you dont want to miss out on the missing link.
I know 2k1civic17"gabe has/had TSI extreme with t25 ball bearing turbo.
As far as upgrading your existing torbo, even to t28, dodnt even think about it without moddifying your current TSI manifold and donpipe. t28 has t3 size compressor housing and to accept it you will have to position turbo on a slight angle to the engine block. Oh, well, if you want to go upgrade route, then - you might want to just sell this kit and buy the whole new one with bigger turbo.
What you have now, as it is, good street turbo kit, you dont need no fuel managment upgrades at all, none.
You can run 10psi easy on LX with good tune.
P.S. You will be definately recomended to get e-manage with rsx injectors.... this combo - 8 psi MAX, less than what you have already !!!
off topic, I know 2k1civic17"gabe has his kit run with MAP black box. I will tell this - dont use it, not worth it - idle is rough and you will need to cut wiring to connect it. For the best results use "Synapse missing link". Buy one form dezod he has best price. Trust me, you dont want to miss out on the missing link.
09-17-2005
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Originally Posted by 03-Acura-1.7-EL
I dont think there is m24 turbo exists..Why would you think that this is what you have???
I know 2k1civic17"gabe has/had TSI extreme with t25 ball bearing turbo.
As far as upgrading your existing torbo, even to t28, dodnt even think about it without moddifying your current TSI manifold and donpipe. t28 has t3 size compressor housing and to accept it you will have to position turbo on a slight angle to the engine block. Oh, well, if you want to go upgrade route, then - you might want to just sell this kit and buy the whole new one with bigger turbo.
What you have now, as it is, good street turbo kit, you dont need no fuel managment upgrades at all, none.
You can run 10psi easy on LX with good tune.
P.S. You will be definately recomended to get e-manage with rsx injectors.... this combo - 8 psi MAX, less than what you have already !!!
off topic, I know 2k1civic17"gabe has his kit run with MAP black box. I will tell this - dont use it, not worth it - idle is rough and you will need to cut wiring to connect it. For the best results use "Synapse missing link". Buy one form dezod he has best price. Trust me, you dont want to miss out on the missing link.
I know 2k1civic17"gabe has/had TSI extreme with t25 ball bearing turbo.
As far as upgrading your existing torbo, even to t28, dodnt even think about it without moddifying your current TSI manifold and donpipe. t28 has t3 size compressor housing and to accept it you will have to position turbo on a slight angle to the engine block. Oh, well, if you want to go upgrade route, then - you might want to just sell this kit and buy the whole new one with bigger turbo.
What you have now, as it is, good street turbo kit, you dont need no fuel managment upgrades at all, none.
You can run 10psi easy on LX with good tune.
P.S. You will be definately recomended to get e-manage with rsx injectors.... this combo - 8 psi MAX, less than what you have already !!!
off topic, I know 2k1civic17"gabe has his kit run with MAP black box. I will tell this - dont use it, not worth it - idle is rough and you will need to cut wiring to connect it. For the best results use "Synapse missing link". Buy one form dezod he has best price. Trust me, you dont want to miss out on the missing link.
Last edited by tfnaaf; 09-17-2005 at 07:50 PM.
09-17-2005
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Rep Power: 272 i ran a custom kit running a vafc2 and rsx injectors... so i say ti all depends on how cheap or expensive you wanna be. i have seen or read somewhere here that did my DIY on the head swap use the emanage to control vtec.. at first i think he got the vafc2 then sold it and got emanage
09-17-2005
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Originally Posted by 03-Acura-1.7-EL
P.S. You will be definately recomended to get e-manage with rsx injectors.... this combo - 8 psi MAX, less than what you have already !!!
As far as this goes....unless you plan to make over 250 hp at 8 psi, you can run much more than that with rsx injectors. If you took the time to understand and try learning a little about fuel injection than what you saw someone say on a forum, you would understand that "how much psi your turbo is pushing" is not the key factor to properly sized injectors.
Fuel pressure plays a big part, so does your brake specific fuel consumption, target horsepower, number of injectors and duty cycle.
I'm really not trying to be a jerk to you, man, but it seriously gets annoying watching people post up incorrect information as fact.
Back on topic, nicrom, the reason that most people recommend emanage over vafc has alot to do with the ability to adjust your ignition timing which is a necessity when boosting. The base emanage is ok, but as far as I'm concerned, it's very inferior to the emanage ulitmate for alot of reasons, accuracy most of all.
Anyways, do some more research and come to your own conclusion. If you want to know what type of injector to use, it really depends on all the factors I mentioned above. I am about to do a quick thread on proper injector sizing so keep an eye out for it.
09-17-2005
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Rep Power: 285 answer to you guys.
i say m24 because thats whats stamped on the housing.
yea that whole emanage plus type s injectors only good till 8psi thing....i didnt believe it anyways.............bs
andyman, you just said something about 250whp at 8psi....is that really possible? please pm me (so thread doesnt get off topic) on how to do it.
as for prices guys, i dont want to go cheapo way out then regret it so id rather wait to install the kit and save money for the best one, plus i get most things 35% off or so through my brother.
ive done lots of research but i could never really find what i was looking for so i think what i need is someone to tell me , this is good for that but that is better for this blah blah so keep posting people.
i say m24 because thats whats stamped on the housing.
yea that whole emanage plus type s injectors only good till 8psi thing....i didnt believe it anyways.............bs
andyman, you just said something about 250whp at 8psi....is that really possible? please pm me (so thread doesnt get off topic) on how to do it.
as for prices guys, i dont want to go cheapo way out then regret it so id rather wait to install the kit and save money for the best one, plus i get most things 35% off or so through my brother.
ive done lots of research but i could never really find what i was looking for so i think what i need is someone to tell me , this is good for that but that is better for this blah blah so keep posting people.
09-17-2005
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Rep Power: 285 also one reason i was leaning towards vafc-2 is ease of use, i notice e-manage needs a laptop (is this correct??) so does the emanage come with the software for me to hook up to it and start tuning for myself. (i wont tune till i thoroughly understand this all)
09-17-2005
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Originally Posted by ncirom2003
also one reason i was leaning towards vafc-2 is ease of use, i notice e-manage needs a laptop (is this correct??) so does the emanage come with the software for me to hook up to it and start tuning for myself. (i wont tune till i thoroughly understand this all)
Yes you need a laptop and you need to buy the software program to tune unless you have the profec b.
09-17-2005
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Rep Power: 285 well im getting the vtec head ( i think) but people have been saying on here that the emanage will still work for what im doing, is this wrong?
how much is the software??? and how would i tune the e-manage with a profec b?
how much is the software??? and how would i tune the e-manage with a profec b?
09-18-2005
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Rep Power: 272 if anyones reading my post let me repost it
i ran a custom kit running a vafc2 and rsx injectors... so i say ti all depends on how cheap or expensive you wanna be. i have seen or read somewhere here that did my DIY on the head swap use the emanage to control vtec.. at first i think he got the vafc2 then sold it and got emanage
okay now let me tell you this.. i maxed out my injectors at 7psi with the stock injectors.. then when i had the rsx injectors i was able to run 15psi with no trouble... and i think there was still more room to boost... that was before i sold my injectors to someone. forgot who...
i ran a custom kit running a vafc2 and rsx injectors... so i say ti all depends on how cheap or expensive you wanna be. i have seen or read somewhere here that did my DIY on the head swap use the emanage to control vtec.. at first i think he got the vafc2 then sold it and got emanage
okay now let me tell you this.. i maxed out my injectors at 7psi with the stock injectors.. then when i had the rsx injectors i was able to run 15psi with no trouble... and i think there was still more room to boost... that was before i sold my injectors to someone. forgot who...
09-18-2005
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Rep Power: 285 nice, so far i think im gonna sell the fuel management setup that came with the kit and im going to buy the e-manage ultimate (so much better than the blue one plus not much more expensive cus this one comes with the software (other is 100 more) and im going to find type s injectors)
do you guys think ITR injectors would fit in my car? theyre from a 98-01 itr, the paper said theyre 440cc. what cc are the type s?
do you guys think ITR injectors would fit in my car? theyre from a 98-01 itr, the paper said theyre 440cc. what cc are the type s?
09-18-2005
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Rep Power: 280 the emanage WILL control vtec. I am also running the Emanage with the ex headswap. I had the vafc2 at first then ditched it for preparati on of turbo. the emanage is far superior to the vafc2 as far as precise tuning goes. Don't let the need for a laptop scare you off, the program is easy to figure out and there are lots of educated people on the forum that know how to use it.
09-18-2005
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Rep Power: 285 the need for a laptop is somewhat why i want to buy it, i feel like it will be easier to go through, im going to look into buying the ultimate tomorow
09-18-2005
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Hmmm... Emanage Ultimate vs VAFC2,
The VAFC2, very good improvement from the first one, you can fine tune the amount of fuel in from 3000 to 7000 rpm ("controlling your vtec"). You can password protect you fuel map so someone cant steal it use it. This is a piggyback so you can use it with your stock ECU (you probably know this already).
Emanage Ultimate-
-Piggyback EMS,
-Option to switch between two maps A or B (Street or Racing)
-A/F target map for self tuning to speed up initial tuning time
-Increased number of input and output ports and numberous built in adapters Various Correction Maps (for Acceleration, Speed, Temperature, Ignition, & A/T Trans)
-A new extensive multi-channel datalogging system with map tracing for easy tuning
-It has a nice sofout 02 tware for your laptop called the "Software Support Tool" and it uses the USB speedy connection for tuning, monitoring, and datalogging
Plus: If you need a laptop, you can use mine, we tune together and mess around with the software. Thats if you dont have a laptop when you receive your emanage ultimate.
From Greddy:
"Ideal for optimizing and fine-tuning for performance products like exhaust, air intake, intercoolers, boost controllers and turbo upgrades, the e-Manage Ultimate and do it better than any other system on the market today."
The VAFC2, very good improvement from the first one, you can fine tune the amount of fuel in from 3000 to 7000 rpm ("controlling your vtec"). You can password protect you fuel map so someone cant steal it use it. This is a piggyback so you can use it with your stock ECU (you probably know this already).
Emanage Ultimate-
-Piggyback EMS,
-Option to switch between two maps A or B (Street or Racing)
-A/F target map for self tuning to speed up initial tuning time
-Increased number of input and output ports and numberous built in adapters Various Correction Maps (for Acceleration, Speed, Temperature, Ignition, & A/T Trans)
-A new extensive multi-channel datalogging system with map tracing for easy tuning
-It has a nice sofout 02 tware for your laptop called the "Software Support Tool" and it uses the USB speedy connection for tuning, monitoring, and datalogging
Plus: If you need a laptop, you can use mine, we tune together and mess around with the software. Thats if you dont have a laptop when you receive your emanage ultimate.
From Greddy:
"Ideal for optimizing and fine-tuning for performance products like exhaust, air intake, intercoolers, boost controllers and turbo upgrades, the e-Manage Ultimate and do it better than any other system on the market today."
09-18-2005
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Rep Power: 303 A laptop would be nice. But i use a desktop in my garage and tune it from there, and also have my Digimoto scan tool hooked up to it so i can also read the ECM codes . A laptop would BE sooooooooooo much easier but it can be done with a desktop . As far as what horsepower is made at what PSI, is all dependant on what turbo your running along with other factors. One turbo may make 200hp @ 8psi on XXXX motor while another turbo will make only 150HP on the same XXXX motor @ 8psi
09-18-2005
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Originally Posted by tfnaaf
A laptop would be nice. But i use a desktop in my garage and tune it from there, and also have my Digimoto scan tool hooked up to it so i can also read the ECM codes . A laptop would BE sooooooooooo much easier but it can be done with a desktop . As far as what horsepower is made at what PSI, is all dependant on what turbo your running along with other factors. One turbo may make 200hp @ 8psi on XXXX motor while another turbo will make only 150HP on the same XXXX motor @ 8psi
09-18-2005
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Originally Posted by siharathb
Hmmm... Emanage Ultimate vs VAFC2,
The VAFC2, very good improvement from the first one, you can fine tune the amount of fuel in from 3000 to 7000 rpm ("controlling your vtec"). You can password protect you fuel map so someone cant steal it use it. This is a piggyback so you can use it with your stock ECU (you probably know this already).
Emanage Ultimate-
-Piggyback EMS,
-Option to switch between two maps A or B (Street or Racing)
-A/F target map for self tuning to speed up initial tuning time
-Increased number of input and output ports and numberous built in adapters Various Correction Maps (for Acceleration, Speed, Temperature, Ignition, & A/T Trans)
-A new extensive multi-channel datalogging system with map tracing for easy tuning
-It has a nice sofout 02 tware for your laptop called the "Software Support Tool" and it uses the USB speedy connection for tuning, monitoring, and datalogging
Plus: If you need a laptop, you can use mine, we tune together and mess around with the software. Thats if you dont have a laptop when you receive your emanage ultimate.
From Greddy:
"Ideal for optimizing and fine-tuning for performance products like exhaust, air intake, intercoolers, boost controllers and turbo upgrades, the e-Manage Ultimate and do it better than any other system on the market today."
The VAFC2, very good improvement from the first one, you can fine tune the amount of fuel in from 3000 to 7000 rpm ("controlling your vtec"). You can password protect you fuel map so someone cant steal it use it. This is a piggyback so you can use it with your stock ECU (you probably know this already).
Emanage Ultimate-
-Piggyback EMS,
-Option to switch between two maps A or B (Street or Racing)
-A/F target map for self tuning to speed up initial tuning time
-Increased number of input and output ports and numberous built in adapters Various Correction Maps (for Acceleration, Speed, Temperature, Ignition, & A/T Trans)
-A new extensive multi-channel datalogging system with map tracing for easy tuning
-It has a nice sofout 02 tware for your laptop called the "Software Support Tool" and it uses the USB speedy connection for tuning, monitoring, and datalogging
Plus: If you need a laptop, you can use mine, we tune together and mess around with the software. Thats if you dont have a laptop when you receive your emanage ultimate.
From Greddy:
"Ideal for optimizing and fine-tuning for performance products like exhaust, air intake, intercoolers, boost controllers and turbo upgrades, the e-Manage Ultimate and do it better than any other system on the market today."
09-18-2005
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Rep Power: 285 hmmmm see now that post yo quoted ^ made sense, in fact pointed out the reasons i want the ultimate not the blue, but if its not sure whether or not it will work i dunno.......
i mean isnt it jsut the old one with a few more options?
i mean isnt it jsut the old one with a few more options?
09-18-2005
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Originally Posted by ncirom2003
hmmmm see now that post yo quoted ^ made sense, in fact pointed out the reasons i want the ultimate not the blue, but if its not sure whether or not it will work i dunno.......
i mean isnt it jsut the old one with a few more options?
i mean isnt it jsut the old one with a few more options?
09-18-2005
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Rep Power: 0 The Ultimate is proving very difficult to work on many cars according to some customers. I am sure the D17 could be made to work again. We made it happen with some research, trial and error, Opto & honda service manuals.
09-18-2005
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Originally Posted by 03-Acura-1.7-EL
has his kit run with MAP black box. I will tell this - dont use it, not worth it - idle is rough and you will need to cut wiring to connect it. For the best results use "Synapse missing link". Buy one form dezod he has best price. Trust me, you dont want to miss out on the missing link.
also how is that thing different? for 60 bucks i dunno if id rather just deal with a rough idle at least for a little while
09-18-2005
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Rep Power: 325 I say go with the ultimate. Mine will be here tomorrow and I'll be installing it next weekend and I will get it to work and post up a new DIY for it when I am able. Anyone who knows anything about tuning hondas shouldn't have a problem getting it to work in your car.
09-18-2005
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Originally Posted by andyman97
What are you basing this on? Seriously, if you don't have any factual reason to back up your post, only what you've seen other people say or what you "think," you shouldn't post it as fact. I don't know how many times I've said that it really bothers me when people look for info and get the wrong information.
As far as this goes....unless you plan to make over 250 hp at 8 psi, you can run much more than that with rsx injectors. If you took the time to understand and try learning a little about fuel injection than what you saw someone say on a forum, you would understand that "how much psi your turbo is pushing" is not the key factor to properly sized injectors.
Fuel pressure plays a big part, so does your brake specific fuel consumption, target horsepower, number of injectors and duty cycle.
I'm really not trying to be a jerk to you, man, but it seriously gets annoying watching people post up incorrect information as fact.
Back on topic, nicrom, the reason that most people recommend emanage over vafc has alot to do with the ability to adjust your ignition timing which is a necessity when boosting. The base emanage is ok, but as far as I'm concerned, it's very inferior to the emanage ulitmate for alot of reasons, accuracy most of all.
Anyways, do some more research and come to your own conclusion. If you want to know what type of injector to use, it really depends on all the factors I mentioned above. I am about to do a quick thread on proper injector sizing so keep an eye out for it.
As far as this goes....unless you plan to make over 250 hp at 8 psi, you can run much more than that with rsx injectors. If you took the time to understand and try learning a little about fuel injection than what you saw someone say on a forum, you would understand that "how much psi your turbo is pushing" is not the key factor to properly sized injectors.
Fuel pressure plays a big part, so does your brake specific fuel consumption, target horsepower, number of injectors and duty cycle.
I'm really not trying to be a jerk to you, man, but it seriously gets annoying watching people post up incorrect information as fact.
Back on topic, nicrom, the reason that most people recommend emanage over vafc has alot to do with the ability to adjust your ignition timing which is a necessity when boosting. The base emanage is ok, but as far as I'm concerned, it's very inferior to the emanage ulitmate for alot of reasons, accuracy most of all.
Anyways, do some more research and come to your own conclusion. If you want to know what type of injector to use, it really depends on all the factors I mentioned above. I am about to do a quick thread on proper injector sizing so keep an eye out for it.
Forgive me please! I know what I was takling about, but I was drunk that day! I know you are ringht, I'have shoud explain myself! Oh, I feel guilty, ( and you are to me like:
) I need to be panished for this! Its all my fault and I admit it! 
You are the man!I need to be cleared of this, so let me
I know I can help, I know the STUFF!
So, tell me I'm good!
SO, let be it!
09-18-2005
#28
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Rep Power: 285 ^WTF! lol anyways.........
andyman, be sure to hurry up on that diy, im going to hold off on my decisions to see what ya do.
btw do you guys know if injectors from a dsm (1st gen eclipse) will fit in our car? i saw alot on ebay that were like 440 cc or sumthin, some used some not.
andyman, be sure to hurry up on that diy, im going to hold off on my decisions to see what ya do.
btw do you guys know if injectors from a dsm (1st gen eclipse) will fit in our car? i saw alot on ebay that were like 440 cc or sumthin, some used some not.
09-19-2005
#29
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Rep Power: 325 No, you can't use dsm injectors without modifying the fuel rail. And if you use that size injector, you probably won't clear the tps. You'll either have to use rsx injectors or find a different manifold. This information is all over this section of the forum. You should really do some more searches before posting anymore questions.
09-19-2005
#30
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Rep Power: 285 ^ well, given that this thread is already started and its easier to just ask a quick question than to deal with the stupid search button which barely comes up with threads specifically on what you need, ill post my questions in here.
