Huge wings on FWD
Thread Starter
Why is my vagina bleeding?
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Rep Power: 305 
Huge wings on FWD
Lets say a civic was tuned and was capable of speeds excess of 150mph,
Would a large rear wing help to keep it more stable? Would you want more down force in the back like that on a front wheel drive car?
Would a large rear wing help to keep it more stable? Would you want more down force in the back like that on a front wheel drive car?
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,604
Likes: 0
From: Grapevine, Texas, US
Rep Power: 0 
still wouldn't help. And you would have plenty of down force in the front considering the engine and the tranny are weighing it down.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: TX
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by nindoo
Lets say a civic was tuned and was capable of speeds excess of 150mph,
Would a large rear wing help to keep it more stable? Would you want more down force in the back like that on a front wheel drive car?
Would a large rear wing help to keep it more stable? Would you want more down force in the back like that on a front wheel drive car?
Originally Posted by Master
still wouldn't help. And you would have plenty of down force in the front considering the engine and the tranny are weighing it down.
the air flowing underneath a moving vehicle creates lift, this happens at any speed, although it is exagerated as the speed increases. aerodynamic bits and pieces are used to create negative lift, or downforce, to provide more traction as speed increases as opposed to less.
Thread Starter
Why is my vagina bleeding?
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Rep Power: 305
Originally Posted by JamesL
the air flowing underneath a moving vehicle creates lift, this happens at any speed, although it is exagerated as the speed increases. aerodynamic bits and pieces are used to create negative lift, or downforce, to provide more traction as speed increases as opposed to less.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: TX
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by nindoo
At normal high speeds would a front air dam and skirt make a diff on traction, lets say speeds between 100-125mph?
if you are driving 100-125mph on the highway in a straight line (which is
btw) then the difference wont be as apparent.maybe you could clarify what type of driving you intend on doing... and then i could help you more. aerodynamics are infinitely more important on race cars than they ever will be on street cars "driven fast on the street".
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,604
Likes: 0
From: Grapevine, Texas, US
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by JamesL
i suppose it depends on different factors, but in general, if a civic was capable of speeds in excess of 150mph, then the downforce provided by the stock body (wingless/air dam less) would probably be lacking.
im not sure where you are making that up from... why do you think race cars have front air dams and/or rear wings? downforce has nothing to do with the engine and the tranny... that is simply weight weighing down the car. downforce is, hence the name, a force created by airflow over and around an object. air dams and spoilers/wings create downforce, not heavy engines.
the air flowing underneath a moving vehicle creates lift, this happens at any speed, although it is exagerated as the speed increases. aerodynamic bits and pieces are used to create negative lift, or downforce, to provide more traction as speed increases as opposed to less.
im not sure where you are making that up from... why do you think race cars have front air dams and/or rear wings? downforce has nothing to do with the engine and the tranny... that is simply weight weighing down the car. downforce is, hence the name, a force created by airflow over and around an object. air dams and spoilers/wings create downforce, not heavy engines.
the air flowing underneath a moving vehicle creates lift, this happens at any speed, although it is exagerated as the speed increases. aerodynamic bits and pieces are used to create negative lift, or downforce, to provide more traction as speed increases as opposed to less.
With only going 150 mph it would still not be needed. Just lowering the car can help with the down force. As in making less space for air to go under the car to cause lift. You wouldn't need a front air damn. Shoot look at all those muscle cars they don't have air dams or wings at that matter. Sure they are rear wheel drive but they give the speeds that we are talking about and they don't need anything.
Autocross Junky
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,211
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Rep Power: 381 
People seem to forget... as speeds increas, so does a cars tendency to oversteer.... SO... as JamesL said, if you are on a race track then Yes a wing of some sort may be of use. (down force is free traction afterall).
The big thing I see though is that people seem to think that the Dinky little wings they put on their cars will help..... when 1. its too small to make a noticeable difference (Except by adding more drag) and 2. its attached to the weakest piece of sheetmetal on the car(the deck lid).....
If you want to learn more about aerodynamics in regards to Racing cars...
Book
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...16617?v=glance
websites
http://www.belmont.k12.ca.us/ralston...ar_Racing.html
http://www.gmecca.com/byorc/dtipsaerodynamics.html
The big thing I see though is that people seem to think that the Dinky little wings they put on their cars will help..... when 1. its too small to make a noticeable difference (Except by adding more drag) and 2. its attached to the weakest piece of sheetmetal on the car(the deck lid).....
If you want to learn more about aerodynamics in regards to Racing cars...
Book
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...16617?v=glance
websites
http://www.belmont.k12.ca.us/ralston...ar_Racing.html
http://www.gmecca.com/byorc/dtipsaerodynamics.html
Autocross Junky
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,211
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Rep Power: 381 Master, think of this.... in an F1 car they have both a front and rear wing.... those wings are used to create extra traction for the corners.. on average the speeds in which an F1 car takes a corner is between 60 and 90 MPH.... so your 150+mph thing is bubkiss.
Downforce is FREE traction for the corners If you understood how tires make traciton you would understand this... You are increasing the load on the tires with out increasing the weight of the car!
Downforce is FREE traction for the corners If you understood how tires make traciton you would understand this... You are increasing the load on the tires with out increasing the weight of the car!
Autocross Junky
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,211
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Rep Power: 381 Also, Look at Improved touring cars....
Such as this ITB BMW 2002
notice the big air dam in the front? that really helps these cars, but guess what?? on a race track an ITB car woll only see max speeds of around 110-120 MPH...... and thats at the end of a straight a way... Cornering speeds (where the down force from the air dam is actually usefull) is aroudn 30-60 depending on the sharpness of the corner.
Such as this ITB BMW 2002
notice the big air dam in the front? that really helps these cars, but guess what?? on a race track an ITB car woll only see max speeds of around 110-120 MPH...... and thats at the end of a straight a way... Cornering speeds (where the down force from the air dam is actually usefull) is aroudn 30-60 depending on the sharpness of the corner.
Last edited by Zzyzx; Aug 9, 2004 at 10:38 AM.
Registered!!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 202
Likes: 0
From: TX
Rep Power: 0
Originally Posted by Master
With only going 150 mph it would still not be needed. Just lowering the car can help with the down force. As in making less space for air to go under the car to cause lift. You wouldn't need a front air damn. Shoot look at all those muscle cars they don't have air dams or wings at that matter. Sure they are rear wheel drive but they give the speeds that we are talking about and they don't need anything.
i assume "master" doesnt stand for the degree you have in physics either?
Autocross Junky
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,211
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Rep Power: 381 The problem with the imports sporting the Tuner wings....
1. most are too small to make any signifigant down force.
2. most are not placed in areas of clean air flow.... (thats the reason why these porsche wings, though Ricelooking, are mounted where they are..)
3. They are attaced to one of the weakest part of the car... the center of the trunk.
4. even if the wing is in "clean air" the wing its self is not tuned correctly, causeing more drag then downforce making it worthless.
5. the people sporting these whings never do the type of driving where it may be usefull (Dragrace Vs Road course).
1. most are too small to make any signifigant down force.
2. most are not placed in areas of clean air flow.... (thats the reason why these porsche wings, though Ricelooking, are mounted where they are..)
3. They are attaced to one of the weakest part of the car... the center of the trunk.
4. even if the wing is in "clean air" the wing its self is not tuned correctly, causeing more drag then downforce making it worthless.
5. the people sporting these whings never do the type of driving where it may be usefull (Dragrace Vs Road course).
Registered!!
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 407
Likes: 0
From: Southeastern Wisconsin
Rep Power: 0 
Originally Posted by Zzyzx
The problem with the imports sporting the Tuner wings....
3. They are attaced to one of the weakest part of the car... the center of the trunk.
5. the people sporting these whings never do the type of driving where it may be usefull (Dragrace Vs Road course).
3. They are attaced to one of the weakest part of the car... the center of the trunk.
5. the people sporting these whings never do the type of driving where it may be usefull (Dragrace Vs Road course).
Thread Starter
Why is my vagina bleeding?
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 3,582
Likes: 0
From: Montreal
Rep Power: 305 What is the purpose of roof scoops? Do they have anything to do with down force?
I've learned a lot at this forum, very competent people here.
I've learned a lot at this forum, very competent people here.
Last edited by nindoo; Aug 9, 2004 at 01:09 PM.
Autocross Junky
Hey! Look At Me!! I'm a Supporting Member!!
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 7,211
Likes: 0
From: Las Vegas, Nevada, US
Rep Power: 381
Originally Posted by nindoo
What is the purpose of roof scoops? Do they have anything to do with down force?
I've learned a lot at this forum, very competent people here.
I've learned a lot at this forum, very competent people here.
as far as scoops and downforce.... well they make drag thats about it.
Registered!!
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
From: Dallas area
Rep Power: 0 Most of the WRC cars have roof scoops..
I would think they would do SOMETHING. maybe since most roof scoops you see now don't have an opening, that's just drag.
I don't like spoilers, generally, but I do like roof scoops.
I would think they would do SOMETHING. maybe since most roof scoops you see now don't have an opening, that's just drag.
I don't like spoilers, generally, but I do like roof scoops.
Thread
Thread Starter
Honda Civic Forum
Replies
Last Post
2002ExCivic
7th Generation Civic 2001 - 2005
22
Sep 28, 2015 08:29 AM
tropicola
Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it Forum
5
Sep 25, 2015 07:02 PM
curaze
Mechanical Problems/Vehicle Issues and Fix-it Forum
3
Sep 22, 2015 08:27 AM
