crossfire

I just recently got my 94 Civic EX due to giving the wifey the New 2010 Ford Focus SE that I just got to get around in. I decided she should take it since it's more reliable then her old 96 Acura Integra LS. So here it goes... My car has around 155k on her and I'm going to do a turbo D series for now till I get some more after the major items that need to be replaced since the kids I bought it from didn't really take good care of here. I least this thing is RUST FREE!

When I bought her!

Painted Black 5 Spoke 14" Honda Wheels, Black Fenders, Black Hood, **** Dirty Interior, Shitty Suspension (Ebay Coilovers), 4" Ebay Muffler (Sounded like --- RICE!) etc....



Decided that the black rims had to get redone and the fenders and hood w/ gray primer before I paint her...



Got Rid of the Ebay Muffler and replaced it with Dynomax 2.5" tip axle back muffler. I noticed that the previous guy at least installed a new CAT and newly bent 2 1/2 exhaust pipe to the back. (Nice! Saved me some money) Now she's nice and quite only when I want her to be ....



Also noticed when I started to take of the rims for paint that the pass side axel boot was shot to hell and need to be replaced so WHALA!!! New Axel!



The trunk wasn't working for me since I believe he spilled some oil or maybe soda in the trunk so I had to rip it apart and sand it down and paint it. Don't mind the silver it will be repainted white when I get my car color paint to redo the exterior paint.



This is what happens when you go cheap and buy from ebay...

Front Coil



Rear Coil ( I actually had to cut the rear strut since the car was riding so low that the struts took a crap after the abuse they took. )





When they guy installed the top hats I guess he didn't use the correct hex key and stripped the crap out of the struts hex key hole..

crossfire

I decided to go with these... Sportline Springs w/ 1.5 drop





Bare drivers side rear...



Out with the Old....




In with the NEW!!!

New KYB struts in the back. I didn't go with blues since I got these for almost free from my car place.



All installed on the Right!



All installed on the Left!



Close Up Please !



After I installed everthing I noticed when I was going to throw this cap out that it actually had my rear passengers site top hat bushing insert so I guess I'm ripping that side apart again to put it back in. This things was like seized to the damn cap...



MORE TO COME HAHAHA

MindBomber

Nice project!

crossfire

Thanks!! Having a child and a wife requiring my attention alot doesn't really help much since it takes most of my time but it'll get done in time.

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

Looking good in the de-ricerfication stage. Muffler is a tad bit big but I guess I need to choose my battles. Are those discs for the front or back? Are you planning on keeping those wheels?

crossfire

The rotors are for the front since I do have rear drums. As for the rims I'm not sure.. Why do you ask?

Mad Dog Tannen

What calipers are you talking about?

I hope you are putting those rotors in the rear, because those are not vented. They do look nice all slotted and such. I do like fresh rotors.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

y did u get drill/slotted rotors? u know ur braking gets worse when you put them on ur car? you lose too much surface area. i suggest u sell those while they still look new to someone stupid on this forum. and buy urself some OEM blank rotors + hawk HP pads. and get some stainless steel lines as well. ur braking will be amazing.

Mad Dog Tannen

I am sorry but you need to read up on your brakes some more. You are partially right. Slotted rotors take away a little surface area. But they also allow gasses that are trapped between the pad and the rotor to escape essentially counteracting an affect similar to hydro planing on water. they keep a clean surface on the pad so brake dust doesn't build up. The surface area can be made up for with good pads.

crossfire

^^^ This is true but what sl33pyriceboi said is also correct. I don't agree or disagree between both posts but I decided to go this route because I was think the same thing as Mad Dog Tannen just posted. Everyone know the difference between both blank or slotted / drilled calipers give but I guess it all comes down to what someone wants to put on their car. I just decided to go this route since I had them on before when I had a civic and never had a problem. But thanks guys!

crossfire

Sorry I meant rotors...

Mad Dog Tannen

So are you going to put non vented rotors in the front?

02civicsi02

Nice work man keep it up.

crossfire

Yup! Most definetly they're going on since I already got them and are ready to go. I'm going to have to strip the calipers from old red paint and redo them in silver. Also noticed the my brake pedal seems to loose pressure when I hold it down when stopped. So I got a new brake master fluid cylinder and that's going in when I do the rotors.

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

How much did you pay for those rotors? I don't think you want to use those up front.

Mad Dog Tannen

I agree. I would only use vented in the front.

crossfire

Actually I'm going to stick with these because they're slotted / dimpled rotors and not slotted / cross drilled rotors. I want to try these out and see how they'll handle when braking with being dimpled and all.

Close up Shots





For braking that goes above and beyond high performance, check out our Summit® ultimate performance brake rotor and ceramic brake pad combos. The rotors have wide slots and diamond grooves to dissipate heat and give you firm braking, and they look great doing it. They're machined from premium-grade cast iron to strict tolerances for exceptional balance and OE fit, and they're given a zinc dichromate coating for rust resistance and good looks. The included low-dust ceramic pads improve braking performance and pedal pressure to complete your ultimate performance upgrade. The combos include a pair of rotors and a set of brake pads.





I just got my brake master cylinder in...





What do you guys think should I go with the rotors and just get slotted?

Mad Dog Tannen

From what I have read venting does more to dissipate heat than anything else. You may get worse braking just because those are not vented. Just my .02

That's all I am going to say about that. Otherwise your ride looks good so far. Keep up the good work!

Nosepicker

Subscribed. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

02civicsi02

The slotted are alot better than the slotted and drilled when tracking or auto x cause the drilled rotors become weaker and can warp alot easier especially when high braking and hard turning. The dimpled and slotted are good though cause they are not drilled all the way through.

I have the power slotted rotors on mine with hawk hps pads and i love them. The braking improved tremendously.

Mad Dog Tannen

Agreed. Cross drilled are garbage. The only exception is if they are made of extremely resilient material and are replaced often.

02civicsi02

Some of the really expensive drilled and slotted rotors are good because they are made of a very good material and durable for when they are drilled and then they reinforce them more after drilled. This is another reason why they are so expensive expensive.

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

Those are not vented rotors. I'm fairly certain you are going to run into heat issues running those on the front, even if they do fit, which I doubt they do.

02_d17a1_dx

iTrader: (1)

Sorry to tell you man, but those are DEFINITELY REAR ROTORS, either do a rear disk swap, or send them back to summit and ask for front rotors, you may have ordered the wrong ones by accident or they may have even sent you the wrong ones, your front pads wont even cover that whole rotor.

Caymanized

Wow, nice indeed! What models did the 5 spokes come off of? I am mad in love with the wheels and progress so far.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

double post FTL!!!!!!

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

ok. time to educate the noobs that recently joined....

dear Mr ''Mad Dog Tannen"..........

please read the following......

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

HAHAHAH. please dont embarass urself. i think you are the one that needs to do the research. let me give you a little history lesson on brake pads....

the reason y cross drilled rotors were designed because the older generation brake pads would emit a gas when compressed against the rotor. it would create a small gaseous barrier between the pad and the rotor. so then ppl started cross drilling the rotors so that the gases would have a place to go.

now a days, the technology for the pads are way better and they dont emit a gaseous layer like the old times.

so really, ther are no point for getting drilled rotors. mostly just for looks.



Ok I'm hearing a lot of conjecture, and people are STILL blowing money on shitty rotors, so I will tell you all why blank rotors are better.

The reason for the creation of cross drilled rotors initially was to remove the "gasses" from the brake pads. HOWEVER, most of your modern brake pads (Axxis metal, AEM semi-ceramic) do NOT produce gasses when heating. This was on bad brake pads used in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, asbestos was also used, and we dont use that either.

The other reason is so called heat dissapation. I don't have my physics and thermo books with me, but the logic is that the holes in the rotor are suppose to allow the brake pad to cool. So...air gets into the rotor from the inside of the vents. If you have a back rotor which is solid, air gets into these holes how? If your stopped, you are leaving air inside these holes sandwiched between the pads, thus creating air with a rising temperature. Its increasing in pressure from the heat, which I guess you "could" call a gas that would affect braking. So the cross drilled rotors do not remove any gasses formed by brake pads (because there are none created anymore) but could possibly inhibit the creation of "hot spots".

Cross drilled rotors have LESS contact area because of the holes.
But if the rotor is cooler, its better, right? Well no, because these rotors are not cooler. THe heat is generated from the pad/rotor contact. What removes heat the most effectively? When stopped or moving, the pad transfers heat into the rotor because its made of cast iron. the rotor has a lot of surface area and even vanes in it. But the little holes allow air in this surface contact, and you can transfer more heat into a solid big *** chunk of cast iron more than you can into the air. Don't believe me? Touch some steam at 150 degrees, then touch a piece of hot metal which is at 150 degrees. Which burns your hand? the metal. So let the heat transfer into the metal, because since it has so much more surface area, dissapates better.

Safety!!
Cross drilled rotors can crack! I have seen them!!


Even racing teams will reccomend AGAINST cross drilled rotors.


Companies that sell cross drilled rotors that are redrilled may not be structurally sound. I have actually seen pictures of rear Integra rotors that have had hairline cracks turn into the rotor actually breaking apart!

Do your homework. Even Porsche and Ferrari will admit that the cross drilled rotors they use are for looks. So if you are one of those kids who thinks the little holes look cool, get a name brand drilled rotor like Ferrari does. The REASON Ferrari's 'holed' rotors are alright to use is because they are CAST with the holes in them, so they are not actually drilled into cast iron rotors. Cheap drilled rotors are not safe, and even the good ones are not necessary. Why do Ferrari do it? People THINK they want it, and it sells. If you don't believe me, go into the business world. You will learn that pretty soon, you can sell utter *poopy* if people THINK its better.

Information I gathered from http://www.pdm-racing.com/
says:


"KVR Crossdrilled Rotors

Why should you upgrade to cross drilled rotors?

Simply stated, the function of any vehicles brake system is to stop the vehicle. This is accomplished by absorbing the kinetic energy stored in the moving vehicle, and converting it into heat. The friction caused by the brake pad rubbing on the rotor is the source of this heat. The more quickly and efficiently that heat can be absorbed and dissipated, the more quickly and efficiently the car will stop.

There are several contributing factors to this heat reduction. One of the most common sources of heat is from the gases produced by the bonding agents of the brake pad burning off. Under severe braking, this can actually produce a boundary layer of gas that pushes the pad away from the rotor, which can lead to excessive brake fade. The cross-drilled holes in a rotor provide an escape path for these gasses (de-gassing or out-gassing are common terms), and allow the pad to stay in contact with the rotor. As well as de-gassing, cross drilling or slotting will provide better wet weather braking as water is swept through the holes, or down the slots.

A vented rotor can be viewed as an air fan. When in motion, the vents draw air from the center of the rotor outward. This air flow, over an increased internal surface area, effectively dissipates rotor heat. Cross drilling adds to this air flow, as well as providing additional rotor surface cooling. "

This company is just telling you that the rotors may be cooler, however they fail to mention that the holes really do create a more than substantial decrease in surface area, thus less braking, thus less heat created, thus the less heat CREATED will leave the rotors cooler, the holes barely do anything! Its the less braking lowering the temperature!

Slotted rotors-
Find me a company that uses stock slotted rotors. They remove brake dust, but if you study braking systems, you find that with modern cars, flat blank rotors and semi-ceramic pads, the brake dust causing the rotor to slip on it is almost non-existent. But the brake dust doesnt need all those lines. Notice how most front brake pads (and most back) have that line down the middle to give essentially two bite points. If OEM or racing companies found it to be a benefit, they would do it.

PROOF OF IT ALL:

Find me an F1 car as of now that uses cross drilled or slotted rotors.
They all use full carbon rotors and carbon pads. Are they drilled or slotted? No.

If they helped the fastest cars in the world, wouldn't they use them? Its basic calculations that show the lack in surface area does not make up for the possible loss in temperarure. They use brake cooling air ducts insted.

BIG BRAKE KITS:
Some have asked if the big brake kits are worth it. This is sort of a relative question, but the simple answer is no. Regarding the big ones with drilled rotors, if you know that they are cast that way, at least they wont crack. I will still advice against them.
In terms of a big brake kit, I have seen some for Civic DX models. Civics have the small pad, small caliper, and a 9.5" rotor. The big rotors are 12" in diameter, ok so the overall diameter is close to that of an Acura RL (1999). But the sweeping area (the area that the pad can grab) is still the same if they use the same caliper and same pad. If you have the same pad and caliper, you are using the same rotor surface, just farther out, so it will increase braking from stock. However, if you were to change knuckles, etc, and get Acura RL caliper (larger piston than your civic DX piston), RL pads (much bigger and taller), and RL rotors 11.8" but much more surface area is touched, then you have a better brake setup because you have OEM parts, and a better grip on more area of the rotor. The downfall is added weight (since big brake kits are usually 2 piece and lighter) but the benefit is that you have so much more stopping. Ok, so the big brake kit will have less unsprung and rotational mass (so a little better accelleration but less braking), but they tend to run over a grand, and you can use OEM parts to build a better setup for half that.

IN CONCLUSION:
Don't buy slotted or cross drilled rotors, blank are better, and stop better. Physics people, get me my formulas and help me out here.

If you must get rotors with designs on them, get the slotted ones by a good company, and DON'T get blank rotors redrilled with little holes all over them. IF you absolutly must have the rotors with holes cause you like em, get them from a company that casts the rotors like that. I have seen rotors break and this is for your safety!

REMEMBER......
Your car will only stop as fast as your tires will allow. All the braking in the world wont work if your tires are bald and on ice!!

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

stock civic rotor that has losted a lot of surface area due to all that fancy art work on it (what is that? like a 9" rotor?):


and a proper rotor that could [kinda] sacrifice rotor surface:



ps, no offense crossfire, i am just trying to make a statement.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

hahaha.... most people with such a light car like him does not push their brakes close to the limit to create brake fade on the streets/canyons.

if u had good pads...such as HAWKs HPS pads that were made of ferro carbon, he would not even come close to brake fade, which is caused by cheap brake pads and a few other variables like expansion of the brakefluid (in the lines).

u wanna know when rotors get REALLY hot? race track. as seen here:


pretty wicked huh? u think they rotors are cooling it fast enough? this is why the pad compound is very important.


also, a last note before i go to sleep.

the "cooling" effect "drilled/crossdrilled" rotors.

did u know that generic rotors that cost the sub $1000 (or even 500$) dont have correct air channels? most drilled/crossdrilled rotors that are cheap dont have the proper vented air passages to make them correctly cool the rotor off. most aftermarket drilled/crossdrilled rotors are 3rd party drilled....and most of all, from a generic blank rotor....eeek.

this is what a properly vented (means it takes TRUE advantage of air cooling "drilled" looks like:


oh yea, they are also in the ball park of $5000 a pair.