cinaibur

iTrader: (5)

So I've been thinking what way I want to go with my car. I've spent most of my time on non-power upgrades.(stereo, wheels, suspension, etc.) I think that I want to do a NA build. I don't see a lot of guys doing it. I know that it's hard to gain large amounts of power doing this with our motor, but that's ok. I'm not going for huge power gains. I just want to toy around with the d17 a bit until I graduate and can afford something better. I was thinking of starting with this: (not a complete list by any means, just to get the ideas rolling)

I/H/E
d16y8 mani with larger TB
RSX type-S injectors
E-manage
internals(would like to see what I can do on the stockers first)

What do you guys think. Is this an admirable goal? I would like to be able to get in the 150-170hp range. All comments and suggestions welcome and appreciated.

spoonEM

iTrader: (15)

dont waste your money on NA. boost or nothing. haha. Youll spend just about as much doing a nice NA setup as you would with a turbo setup.

Theres no need for the d16 mani either. The reason people switch to that manifold is because it is aluminum instead of plastic to withstand high pressure situations. Theres also no need for the injectors unless you are going turbo. Emanage is crap, if you want a decent system, go with the AEM EMS. As far as internals, that will obviously help with a decent tune, but honestly, once you spend all that money, you will be disappointed. If you want to see a nice NA setup, search for the user djmota. Thats my buddy oscar, he has the nicest NA setup compared to any Ive seen on here. Im sure hell be happy to answer any questions you have.

MarchMadnessisM

sorry prob a stupid question but wuts NA?

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

cough go to my thread cough in sig cough but ya seriously i have soem things im going over and its going to cost me a pretty penny but im ok with that. so come over and check it out

lordhelmet

iTrader: (3)

Go for it. As for anyone that is going to flame Cinaibur for not going turbo... leave him the freak alone. Let the NA guys go NA.

Im not quite understanding why you want injectors and the d16 intake it this point in time though. I think you would want a camshaft before you get that stuff. Buy a stage two NA cam and go from there.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

NA- Naturaly aspirated. Aka, no boost- an all motor build.

DJmota's profile: LINK

NA build research thread:
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...d-10-13-a.html
NA build comment thread:
https://www.civicforums.com/forums/1...ment-here.html

There are only a few other members that have done NA builds. Yeah, your not going to make 300hp, but you'll beat the boost junkies off the line, and suprise a lot of ppl. I for one am doing a stage 2 NA build... which is on hold due to college. But I hope to claim the crown for the best NA setup one day.

MarchMadnessisM

ahhh thanx haha

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

i will try and take that crown triz lol i hope i can get this thing started by this summer. as for the power gains your looking for that would not happen without some major money i think its about 1000 for just a stage 2 camshaft and valvetrain upgrade(necessary). and that would only give you 130~150 depending on the fuel management and tuner. so the range your looking for will require internals indefinitely. but dont get discouraged NA is still an option.

metalviper

iTrader: (13)

im on the NA bandwagon too. i have rsx injectors, an ex head waiting to do a pnp job, some 12.5:1 pistons. just waiting for some more money so i can get a stg 2 cam and valve train, crower rods. and also a new block to be sleeved and notched. i wana rev to 9k lol
eventually kpro and an lsd!

metalviper

iTrader: (13)

btw if i were to go boost i wouldnt hold out on internals. so in fact it is cheaper than boost! ha!

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Do you really need thoes injectors? Stage three is said to rev that high, stage 2 = 8k. But thats what crower says, and of course thats on the D16, so could it be safely done to rev that high, who knows? Hey civicdriver, your into emailing peoiple! I will email them near the end of the week if you dont.

civic-driver

iTrader: (4)

who did you want me to email? lol i guess its late and im not quite getting it. and i think fuel management should be top on the list for any good build.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

There are turbo'd vics out there that burn more fuel then these NA setups probably will, and can still survive on the stock fuel pump... I wont upgrade the fuel system till I see its being restrictive, or being stressed.

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

As dopes6something found out, the stock pump and returnless system is good up to 274hp on a boosted Civic. So that means less money to fork over on an NA or mild boost application since you don't really have to mess with anything aside from the injectors.

Da1lyDr1ver

iTrader: (6)

For anyone thats considering a N/A build, i have a Crower stage 1 N/A camshaft thats still brand new in box. Its a straight drop in application with no need of new springs/retainers.

i got a new car, so i have no use for it.

PM me if you're interested!

Sorry for the plug.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

those mods you listed are basically useless. you may even lose power from the larger tb because air will not be flowing as fast. the problem with a small engine like our d17 is you have to realize that making things bigger isnt gonna help. if you have a turbo shoving tons of air in, then yes bigger tb, larger header pipes, big ported runners are all great things. do that on this na motor and youre gonna have no power below 6k rpms. rsx injectors are a waste, our stock ones are nowhere near full duty cycle and are even fine for a few pounds of boost. emanage is also a waste, a simple vafcII is all you need for fuel tuning. it will add more fuel than you will ever need, esp considering how rich our cars already run in stock form. but if you have money to waste, i would do a stage 1 cam, mild pnp head with angled valve job (no milling the head), intake, header with stock size ports or similar like the DC, exhaust max 2.25 inch diameter piper, cam gear, and vafcii to tune everything on the dyno. you will prolly be as fast as a stock civic si around 140whp. assuming you have a manual.

cinaibur

iTrader: (5)

Sorry for not answering. I fell asleep early last night. I know that I need internals. I just wanted to get the easy stuff out of the way first. i.e. I/H/E. As for the y8 mani, It has longer runners that the p.o.s. one on the d17. Longer runners = better for NA. I might even go with the edelbrock or skunk2.

metalviper

iTrader: (13)

most likely no. but when i bought them i figured i would use them, plus they were only 50 bucks with like 20k miles on em so i might as well incorporate them. well im still debating on a stg 2 or 3 cam. im thinking stage 2 with a vafc2 tune. then get kpro to change the rev limiter. and eventually a stage 3 cam (maybe).

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

stage 3 cam is gonna be crazy, say goodbye to having a normal idle. ive heard one and it makes our civic sound like a v8 mustang lol. get a stage 2, with cam gear and vafcii and tune both.

djmota

iTrader: (34)

its all about choke points. the head is a major one you wont see the benifits of the y8 mani without a good port job and a cam. then exhaust, long tube race header is your only option.... forget running a cat The HP race header or DC race header are your only choices unless you go custom. hondata kpro or ems is a must for any half serious build. You can run a stage 3 cam but expect your idle to be set around 1500 rpm. mine is at 1000 rpm with the stage 2. also my stock injectors are at about 75% duty cylce with a stock bottom end, so take that for what its worth. When you start out pricing this stuff you can expect to spend around 3000.00 before you even open up the block. If that doesnt scare you then cool go for it. and keep us posted.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

If you want a good manifold I would check out the guys at http://jdmfabtech.com/ from what I hear the make really awesome manifolds. I think I also remember boilermaker saying something like the design of our stock manifold is actually a lot better than the older side tb mounted manifolds are the only down side is that the plastic balloons under high boost, but the plastic also dissipates heat better. But don't quote me on that.

DsevenEm2

iTrader: (6)

err wrong! kinda..

you cant just use that as a general statement. its not ALWAYS true.. that can definately vary between motors. the d17s current oem manifold is not that bad in design. its got a central top mounted TB design that lets there air "fall" in and gets mostly equally distributed among the cylinders. the only fault with this manifold is its material. plastic=not good for high pressure. side mount tb manifold designs usually have a harder time getting air EQUALLY to all cylinders.. obviously the cylinder getting the best air flow would be the closest one to the throttle body.. so actually, the stock manifold isnt that bad of a choice for an n/a setup..ecspecially at this point where R&D is limited for the d17. you should focus on other things such as fuel delivery and timing (ie head and EMS). tuning is the key..

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

^^ Saying R&D reminds me of the R&D support thread I created a while back that ended up sizzeling out for some reason, maybe someone will bring it back.

metalviper

iTrader: (13)

so rsxs injectors might be required...hmmm. ya well so far ive spent 200 on a ex head, 400 on pistons, 50 on injectors. i didnt expect it to be cheap, just cheaper than doing a turbo build. i mean still gota get sleeves, and rods thats pretty much another grand. and all the machine work. damn. but im too interested in doing it that unless i suffer some severe money problems im gona do it. even if it takes another year!

DsevenEm2

iTrader: (6)

word thats where i got it from LOL maybe we should bring it back...hm

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

LOL - Nope!

FGCOUPE

N/A costs a heap!

look at big block set ups....
it costs like x2 more to jump a badass V8 off the line in amparts then it does to produce the same or more HP boosting a ricerocket.

TRIZ

iTrader: (14)

Thats kuz work has to be had on twice as many cylinders with a V8. Twice as many internals, head work and block work.

metalviper

iTrader: (13)

well see if you figure in NA internals (pistons, rods, cam, springs/retainers, PNP, sleeves, hot tank) and Turbo internals would be the same then how is it more expensive? i mean in a turbo I wouldve had to do this plus the actual turbo setup so factor in another $3-4K. plus its a lot easier to hide an NA build from cops. so to me cost of turbo>cost of NA

*and i dont mean internals are the same i mean cost for each is

speedfoos

iTrader: (17)

Yeah, I forgot you live in enviro-**** land. But for the same HP goals (and more) as your NA setup you don't need internals for the turbo.