hunnyjb

After visiting a few other website forums and reading through the suspension FAQ here i seem to get a few different opinions on adding a camber kit. I have a 2 door and have had neuspeed sport springs put in a few years ago but just recently im starting to burn through tires much quicker. I've read that a camber kit is uneccessary for just daily non sport driving and that getting an alignment would fix tire problems right away. Obviously i can go and get a alignment to see if that works but i'd hate to waste money just to have to go buy a camber kit and then get another alignment if it doesn't. Can you guys help me on this?

Also...i've seen people recomend ingalls and spc camber kits...any1 have any insight to revo? i was thinking about goin for the revo cc70-2088 recommended in the faq.

I'd appreciate any feedback, thanks in advance

xRiCeBoYx

iTrader: (22)

The OEM rear upper arm isn't adjustable so an alignment isn't gonna do anything to fix your tire eating problem. That's what the camber kit for the rear replaces, and it makes it adjustable..

I've been rocking an SPC camber kit ever since I first dropped my car back in 2003 with tein s-tech springs

Speed9117

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, just get the camber kit now and save yourself money later.

I have the SPC camber kit as well with Eibach springs and I've never had a problem.

hunnyjb

thanks for clearing that up, can you also explain why people only suggest replacing the rear camber kit? Is it a waste to get a front camber kit as well?

also, I really need to replace my shocks and im leaning more towards ride quality than performance. after reading the suspension FAQ i apparently need to measure something if im interested in the koni yellow's, so i then started leaning towards the KYB AGX , but then another forum suggested those would blow just as easy as the OEM would if the drop is too low. I know the neuspeed sport is 1.75 in the front 1.50 in the back, but since my car has been lowered for quite a bit now im assuming the drop is probably more than that...which brand should i go with if i dont want to worry about blowing shocks again?

MindBomber

If you're lowered on stock shocks without an alignment you'll burn through tires guaranteed, the toe is probably way off.

Tokico HP, Tokico D-spec, Koni STR, Koni Yellow and KYB AGX would all be fine choices to use with Nuespeed lowering springs. What forum instructed you that using KYB AGX would be unacceptable?

hunnyjb

i didn't realize it, but its a thread from this very forum

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/4...-ex-coupe.html

heres another thread..the guy doesnt say exactly it would blow but he implies that the warranty voids anything lower than 1.5 and there is a reason for it..

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=291037

MindBomber

The posters who created those threads were considering pairing Nuespeed [B]Race[/B springs, where you're using Nuespeed sport springs. Race springs go much lower and have much higher spring rates than sport, if memory serves, they're actually the most aggressive spring made for 7th gens, which is why AGX would not be acceptable.

Toe kills tires, not camber. Tires can handle a bit of camber without getting completely eaten. In my opinion rear camber kits are unnecessary for certain suspensions, it all depends on the specifics of the set up and way the car is driven. Front camber bolts are almost never necessary.

(since you had very few posts, the site automatically picked up the posts you made with links as potential spam and that's why they didn't appear. I approved them for you.)

hunnyjb

so from what it sounds like..just to make sure i got this all right

for a neuspeed sport drop in a non "performance driving" situation...

1. front camber bolts would be unnecessary
2. rear camber kit would be unnecessary for certain suspensions (could you expand on this? )
3. alignment needs to be done immediately to correct toe

for the shocks im still needing a little more direction, im still leaning away from the agx just because they mentioned anything under the 1.5 drop is not suited for it when neuspeed sport is 1.75/1.50 (neuspeed race is 2.25/2.0)

which shocks should i go with where i can be a complete idiot ( i wont have to measure something or have to make an alteration to make sure it fits properly ), have better ride quality, and wont have to worry about it blowing out due to it not being able to support the drop i have. Though money is a factor if you could list me some i can figure out the expense part of it myself.

again i really appreciate the feedback u guys are awesome.

MindBomber

1.) Correct, you need to be very low for it to be necessary.

2.) Whether or not a camber kit is necessary depends on spring rates and damper valving. In very basic terms, a stiffer ride will induce more aggressive wear on tires and exaggerate the effect of a minor amount of camber.

3.) Yes, toe kills tires worse than camber ever will. Use google images to compare toe and camber wear, it'll make things clear.

All KYB AGX shocks are sold with the spring height limitation as a stipulation to warranty claims, without taking into consideration the actual valving of the damper relative to the springs rates. I would theorize, KYB does that purely to simplify things for the average consumer.

KYB AGX valving stiffness relative to factory.

#1 = 95(5% softer than Factory)
#2 = 100(Factory damping force)
#3 = 107.5 (7.5% firmer than Factory)
#4 = 115(15% firmer than Factory)
#5 = 143.5 (43.5% firmer than Factory)
#6 = 172(72% firmer than Factory)
#7 = 197.5 (97.5 firmer than Factory)
#8 = 223(123 % firmer than Factory)

Stock spring rates:
Roughly 150F/250R

Neuspeed Sport spring rates:
200F/280R

Pretty close to stock, Spoon springs for example are closer to 400F/480R.

Anything above the forth stiffness setting at 15% firmer than factory should be within tolerance for KYB AGX.

Koni Yellow are basically the best you can go without spending $1200+
Yes, installation requires modifying the stock strut bodies, but that's more intimidating than it is difficult. They're around $650.

Tokico D-spec are very comparable to Koni Yellow, but not quite as good. They go right in however, no modification of strut housings needed. They're around $850.

Tokico HP are probably the most common strut owned by members of Civicforums. Gearbox has them currently, xRiceboyx and I did in the past, they're a great product that have been on the shelves for a long time. They're slightly stiffer than factory and can hold up to a 1.8" drop. I scored mine for $375 on ebay.

Koni STR are becoming increasingly popular among 7th gen owners, but they weren't released until 09 and they've been planning catch up with Tokico to gain a following ever since. They should be comparable to slightly better than the HPs. They go for around $450.

I can speak for pretty much everyone here and say, we're always happy to help clarify things for someone who has done their own due diligence prior to posting and actually listens. Surprisingly few people do that...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Koni yellows are your best bet, anything above and beyond that your looking into a coilover set like Progress or Tein SS.

I think the rule of thumb is if you drop it more than 1" or 1.5" you will need a rear camber kit. The front camber kit consists of two bolts and shouldn't cost you more than 30 dollars, so you might as well get that too.

hunnyjb

you guys have been great help, thanks for explaining this to a noob, im going to go with the KYB AGX and hold off on the camber kit for now. one last question, my front shocks are obviously gone as i go over speed bumps every day but my rear shocks for some reason seem to be fine. Is there any danger in only replacing the front struts for now and waiting to do the rears later?

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

If your lowered the struts won't hold up for long. The shocks just don't last when they are forced down that's why it's in your best interest to replace all four at the same time. Another reason is the AGX will ride differently than the stock shocks. So you may run into issues driving it with two different types of shocks installed. If you were going new OEM on front and old OEM on back I'd say it's okay but if your going to replace 2 with AGX go with all four.

Scenemaker

As long as you get a good quality camber kit from a known brand and don't buy ebay crap, no one can say that buying a camber kit is bad. Not needed, sure you could argue that but you cannot argue my statement, you make the decision.

As for replacing just the front, how do you know the rear are still good? Did you take them off and check them? How many miles are on this car? Stock struts are generally **** by the time you reach 100k. Now factor in that you have changed out the springs. Just replace all for and get it over with. If you don't have the cash, wait a month.

Of course someone is going to come in and argue that everything I have said is wrong cause they have done this or that or a friend has, so I shall leave you with one thought. Do it right the first time and have the peace of mind that comes with that.

krudmuphin

iTrader: (1)

Not to steal anyone's thunder, but how do coilovers come into play?

I know the consensus is that a drop of 1.3-1.4" or more will require a rear camber kit, but compared to springs/shocks, a coilover set is a bit more firm, correct? So with their different spring rates, is there a considerable difference in the requirements needed for camber kits to be installed?

At the moment, I'm looking into Tein's new Street Basis coilover set which is rather soft compared to most coilovers. I'm having a difficult time finding a good comparison spring/shock setup, but I'd assume the Basis has a similar spring rate to the Basic becasue it is a redesign.

If I drop my EM2 about 1.5" on these coilo's, would the situation be any different or would the same rules apply and a camber kit would be necessary? (Obviously I know it's better to have one than not, but I'd rather not spend the money on one right now if not necessary)

Thanks. And great information below, very insightful!

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Tein Basis are not very good coilovers. They are tein's bottom of the barrel line and tend to fail. That being said, the reason they are soft is because they only allow for a small drop of about 1.5 inches I think. Regardless of how you drop it, you will need to get a camber kit if you go lower than let's say 1.3 inches. I'm not totally sure of the max tein basis will drop you car, but I know if you max it out they will fail prematurely.

Your better off to spend an extra couple hundred bucks and get a decent set of coilovers that are fully adjustable. Remember, do it right the first time, not second or third.

krudmuphin

iTrader: (1)

I don't plan on maxing it out....ever. They say the Basis (not to be confused with the older "Basic") goes down to about 2.4" which is way too low for my daily driving situations. I'm guessing it to be about 1.3"-1.5" all the time except for mid-winter driving so the bursting is not a huge concern as I take very good care of my car. Hmmm...

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

I'd still get something a little bitter

krudmuphin

iTrader: (1)

Makes sense yeah, but the Basis MSRPs at almost $900 and I have the opportunity to get them brand new for $700, so it's tempting. The Tein SS is outta my price range. And Teins are green, I like green

MindBomber

Of course, a camber kit is always a worthwhile purchase, but if you're on a tight budget it is one that can be avoided. The lower end - Megan, Hardrace camber kits work well at about $100-120. They don't have the same degree of adjustability as SPC or Ingalls, but you won't need it. Lots of people are using them here with great results.


I like green too

If you can get basis for $700 that's a good purchase, they are valved different that the prior basic model so they shouldn't blow so easily. I would encourage picking up a camber kit if you go with something adjustable height.

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

my spc went to ***** and rusted like theres no tomorrow and the rubbers all ripped that was only 3 years old.

i now have ksport which have lasted a year so far without any problems... we'll see how long it last.

BlueEM2

iTrader: (1)

Hmm.. I gotta say 700 is really good I'd buy those too I'm still on my stock suspension however, and will stay that way probably until the car bites it

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

negative camber gains are related to the suspension geometry. the lower the static height is, the rear will spread its legs more, while fronts will not (struts).
so, spring rates does not play much in here, unless you really pushing the car to its limits.

OP, yer fine for years but now it's not.
so, toe sounds like culprit unless yer car is going lower by the passing year. then if it's lower now than then, i would say yter struts are dying.

hunnyjb

yeah it's kinda funny actually, ive had these springs on the car since 2006 but my shocks/tire tread only started giving me trouble just recently. I guess ive been pretty lucky...but then again im a pretty reserved driver.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

in other words, are your car lower than before? if not, just get an alignment and correct toe.

krudmuphin

iTrader: (1)

I'm probably going to buy a Megan rear camber kit soon...
EP3s, EM2s, and RSXs all use the same size control arm, right?
And with less than a 2" drop I shouldn't have to bother getting front camber bolts?

MindBomber

Yes, don't worry about front camber bolts, unless you feel like spending $30 to add another item to your mod list.

Yes, they are the same length, but they don't have the same bolt pattern.

krudmuphin

iTrader: (1)

Different bolt pattern? As in if I order Megan arms that are stated "Compatible with 02-06 RSX, 01-05 Civic, EP3" they may have to be modified in order to fit? Finding parts for EM2s is a pain

MindBomber

The camber arms are the same.

The control arms are different.

krudmuphin

iTrader: (1)

Oh, pfffft, sorry, wrong terminology.
Now my worry is gone, haha