webster426

I have a 2003 Civic EX and am getting my struts replaced. Company uses either KYB or Monroe struts. Any reviews on these brands? I could not find any good reviews online; only from tireexpert.com and they seemed to be decent. The car is for my wife who commutes 100 miles a day and is pretty much all highway. The vehicle has 180k miles on it and they have never been replaced so......

I did not have the time to do the maintenance myself, just wanted to know what your thoughts were. Thanks...

MindBomber

Monroe struts are junk.

KYB GR-2 are a good OEM replacement.

green01civic

I second this.

I'm sure there are junkier struts than monroe, though...

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

Monroe? SHE was great! ahhh marylinn
Is there such a shock that is branded monroe? I believe they could not be called that...
GR2's is the choice fer ya

webster426

They put the KYBs on the front and the Monroes on the back. Anyone know the laws on charging for parts? These mthr fckrs charged me double for every part they installed....including $89.99 for fkn front break pads. Sorry for the language but I just got raped...is this legal?

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

if you agreed and paid for them, i would guess it is as any exchange unless godds are damaged or different than what is advertised. Consensual does not constitute rape

webster426

I have been looking it up online and overcharging for parts is illegal. They doubled the price of parts on pretty much every item. Not to mention, there is something called "credit disputes" where consumers have the right to fight wrongful charges. I paid over the phone and did not have the reciepe in front of me at the time.

Either way, this could easily turn into a legal case.

MindBomber

I'd go back to the shop and demand they swap the rears for kyb, you shouldn't have been given 2 different sets of struts, that's not the proper way to do things.

green01civic

It's par for the course for them to markup the parts costs, to expect otherwise is nearsighted. Think about it, first of all, they aren't shopping around at a discount parts store (like rockauto), they're getting the parts locally, which is going to cost more money... and chances are, some guy in a truck is delivering them (probably with other parts they need that day, but I digress). So right away, they're passing the retail plus delivery costs on to you. On top of that, their markup has to cover things like if the part doesn't work, being able to fix the part a second time at their own cost (this is an aggregate cost of doing business, that they're covering in the markup). And on top of that, they want to make some profit.

You can dispute it with your credit card company, but if they have your prior authorization to do the work, I can't see how they're going to find in your favor. Did they give you any idea of the costs prior to service? If they did, you're double SOL.

You want to save some money? Next time do it yourself...

johndeerebones

WELL SAID!!!!

Been a WELL TRAINED and CERTIFIED mechanic for 12 years. Sick and tired of the general public thinking that every mechanic is out to a$$ rape them....
I strive to be honest and fair and any mechanic that is worth his salt does too. The same people that b!tch about the high cost of mechanic work are the same people that sit on their a$$ all day and gripe if they aren't making 40 bucks an hour. They wouldn't know a hard honest days work if it hit them right in the face. Go to the independents if you want, but they are paying a mechanic 10 bucks an hour...Dealers are paying 20 to 25 locally. Who do you think is gonna attract a "good" mechanic?

Sorry to drop a few choice words and not picking on anyone individually at all, just struck a nerve....

MindBomber

I'll add to this, I'm not a mechanic, but I'm a trades person.

Mechanics are not very well paid, unless your being paid set rate and your extremely fast then you have little hope of making more than $35 an hour, regardless of whether you work at an independant shop or at a mercedes benz dealership. On top of that you are required to spend 10, 15, 20 thousand on more on your personal tools.

The shop itself needs to cover massive overhead; the morgage on a commercial building, massive insurance premiums, tens of thousands of dollars in tools and maintenance on them, staff wages, utilty bills. It all adds up to a big number, so beyond just an hourly rate, shops and trades people mark up our discounted materials just to earn a living.

I don't know the specific laws of where you live, but we mark up our materials 2000% to cover overhead (I operate a $400k truck). Other contractors I know mark up between 100% and 200%, if a customer offers to supply materials that's fine, but they pay 50% more on labour to cover our lost income.

There are plenty of crooked mechanics out there, but aside from the monroes in the front and kybs it all sounds fair.

+1 rep to johndeerebones and green01civic, I might need to write a sticky up on just why mechanics charge what they do.

webster426

First and foremost, I always do all my own work on my vehicles. I am out of town and my wifes car got in a jam that needed a quick fix. I do NOT trust mechanics and have always done my own work on my vehicles. I knew the hourly conditions when the car was dropped off, but I was unaware of the HUGE mark up on all of the parts. I paid $600 for labor for fron rotors, all four struts, oil change, and an obvious alignment. That is more than fair for less then 4 hours worth of work. Secondly, KYB, Monroe and CEL are all available locally.

Like I said, I do not deal with mechanics because I have a general distrust for them for obvious reasons. Labor is for profit, parts is for parts. I do not pay taxes (nor does anyone else) for labor. That is why there is a difference between the two. When you throw in 100% overhead on parts to "increase profits" it is a scam and misleading to the customer. That money should be added into labor.

I am a blue collar worker and I do not make a lot of money. I am not some dude sitting behind an office chair making 100K a year complaining about an $1800 service that was only $600 in parts. I knew I would be paying more for labor and I also knew parts were marked up. But this list goes as follows:

Monroe struts available for $90, paid $180 for a total of $360
KYB struts available for $115, paid $230 for a total of $460
Front rotors available for $40, paid $120 for a total of $240
Front brake pads available for $20, paid $90 for a total of $90.

Total parts cost is around $620, and was billed $1150

I do not know where you are from, but $600 in for hours is a **** load of money ($150 an hour if you cant do the math). You add in the overhead on the parts and we are talking about $1130 in profit in for hours, or $282 an hour. Like I said, I am blue collar, so I do not want to hear about any mechanic (especially this one) who has been in business for 12 years and has charged me $282 an hour.

You are damn right I am going to fight this BS and your damn right I am going to win. I plan on getting a lawyer involved if they refuse to refund my money. I will be happy to return them their overpriced parts!

MindBomber

First off, don't take anything said directly or indirectly to you here to personally, forums aren't often the most gentlely worded places but it's generally all said with good intentions.

I know friends of mine who are mechanics work off the book labour times, which means that even if it only takes 4 hours to complete the work they'll bill you for the 12 hours estimated that it takes. That may explain the high labour costs and minimal amount of time.

Marking up materials is standard procedure for any business, like I said above, it may not be as fair as straight labour + parts in every instance, but generally it's the most fair system on both sides of the transaction. I certainly don't feel like I'm being unfair to customers with our companies mark up.

A friend of mine recently had her front struts changed replaced with KYB struts on her 02 and paid $600, I would've done it if I weren't to busy with school.

Did you agree to authorize the total cost of the work before the started?

lazlong

I hate to break it to ya but, $1000 is about what anybody would have to pay for the work listed.

Before I had my impacts I had to get the rear struts/springs replaced by my mechanic 'cause the bolt was rusted tight and we broke my brand new breaker bar in the attempt. I had the parts and do you know what he charged me for labor? $320- Just for the rears. Which would be half of what you paid for labor on back and front.

Standard parts pricing around here is 120% markup so, you paid less than I would have if I had to buy the parts from the mech.

Standard labor costs at an independent around here is about $120/hr so, you see, $150/hr isn't all that high.

I would definitely make them put the same brand all the way around though.

You seriously need to relax, you're gonna have a coronary. Go out and drink a beer or smoke one or whatever you do to relax and take a nice deep breath and RELAX. We all feel raped by the mechanic at times, it's just part of life. You got a fair deal (minus the monroe/kyb bit) for some hard labor you didn't have to do.

lazlong

I feel ya brother. Around here at the independent it's $15-20 ASE certified but, you can make more than 100K specializing. Several of my friends work at Meineke and make over 80-100K. One is a suspension specialist, one is a diagnostic tech (L-1 ASE), and one is an A/C man (Texas). You can make anywhere from $20-45 at the dealer around here depending on experience and how many certs the dealer is willing to pay for. Of course, it's all contingent on if you're fast enough.

I will go to local Honda shop for parts and supplies all the time (they are really nice and will bend over backwards to help me, even the owners) but, won't take the car to them for work as they charge twice as much the the independent Honda guy. That is of course, if I actually had to take it to the mech. Been able to do everything myself for 3 years now.

That all being said, the dealer's techs are ok but, tend to just replace parts until it's fixed and charge you for them all. Don't get me wrong, I know there are good ones there, they just hide them way in the back. lol. The independents tend to be faster, cheaper and don't bring out the service adviser and the manager to back them when they know they F'ed up.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

webster,
i see you are abopve the average newbies - good argumenting!
but i still think you are not going to win that... it's just normal work prices from what i see...
green01, johndeere, the more i read the more i respect you guys

webster426

Well, I appreciate all of the advice and the mechanic is still going to get a mouth full on monday. Legally, I have the right to return the products (parts) that I purchased, but cannot argue about the labor fees.

I have three things going in my favor: the estimate was for $1750, but they said it would end up being a couple hundred cheaper because they were not replacing anything on my rear breaks. Secondly, I did not sign any form agreeing to any work being done or any amount due for the service. Lastly, I paid over the phone and never signed an authorization reciept for my credit card.

I will be more than happy to
-bring them the parts back and recieve a full refund
-have the total bill adjusted to reflect an increased parts price, but maybe at like 10-20%
-call the credit card and dispute roughly $500 of the total bill

TiggerDX

iTrader: (1)

So they gave you an estimate of $1750 to which you agreed (over the phone) and if you read your receipt it probably states that the estimate can increase by 10% without additional authorization. The bill went up $50 from what you agreed to, and you want to get a lawyer involved. Don't think you will win this one. Because they gave you an estimate and you agreed, you have to pay the bill. You paid over the phone which is just as binding of a payment as if you had handed the card to them.
I really don't see your issue here. You know up front what the cost would be. You had them complete the work, and now want to bitch about it.

green01civic

Toma chocolate, paga lo que debes! Can you submit your case to The People's Court? I'd love to watch the judge dismiss your case.

sdaidoji

iTrader: (1)

to be honest, i imagine price for parts going even higher in your area... another insurance premium going up for customers returning a good working part that was new but is now used...

webster426

I agreed to $1750 for all work which was supposed to include my rear drum brakes (parts and labor). So yes, the actual cost and the estimated cost should not be so close. They would probably charge $70 per drum break and atleast $150 for labor based off their other charges. Thats around $300 bucks off the quoted price so I should have paid around $1450.