Gamer539

So I am reading up on the suspension FAQs and stickies, and all the difference things you can do with your suspension. Is there a preferred order of modification for most performance increase in handling? There's just so many mods or parts like springs, coil-overs, sway bars, strut bars, tie bars, camber kits, tires, etc. Basically looking for order of best bang performance for my buck, and order of mods that I should save up for.

Side question: do these take away from ride comfort compared to stock, or will some have no effect to comfort level?

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

everything affects ride quality, including tires. most likely you will get a firmer ride with less bounce.

1. tires (most increase by far)
2. springs and shocks
3. energy suspension bushings
4. sway bars
5. strut bars
6. camber kit (wont do much except make it so you can align the car after adding lowering springs)

sl33pyriceboi

iTrader: (3)

^camber kit should go with the springs/shocks. its a must =]

Zzyzx

gearbox, Drop all those down a spot and put DRIVER as the #1 thing that has the greatest influence on how a car handles.

Curiouz_G

iTrader: (1)

qft!

metalviper

iTrader: (13)

seat time! i wouldnt say a camber kit isnt helpful, a good alignment can greatly alter handling characteristics

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

I would bump the sway bars up the list a bit the rear sway bar is one of the best mods out there. and with all the choices out there I would say don't worry about full coilovers just get a nice set of shocks/struts and a good set of lowering springs. Coilovers have a tendency to have so much adjustabilty that it is not necessarily the best thing for some one just getting into suspension it is like Zzyzx said driver first.

katzenjammer84

Upgraded swaybars really only hold their merit if you compliment them with beefier endlinks.

cwo715

iTrader: (13)

im just using this as a template gearbox..

ok so IMO

1. Falken
2. Tokico or KYB for struts / Eibach for springs (IMO eibach has great ride quality)
3. yes
4. progress or rsx pull offs
5. neuspeed
6. spc

gearhead337

I AGREE DRIVER #1,You need to learn there difference between Oversteer and Understeer.Once you learn that you will be able to make your own decisions on what mods to buy,but to tell you the truth a good DRIVERS EDUCATION TRACK DAY will help more than any mod. Learn how to go fast with a stock car and some basics and then you will be able to determine the handling characteristics of you car.....being a front wheel drive its naturally going to want to understeer there are ways around this,for example a technique called the "scandinavian flick" is very useful in getting a front wheel drive car to oversteer or pivot.Another technique is called THROTTLE LIFT OVERSTEER this works especially well when coming into a corner fast in a front wheel drive car that likes to UNDERSTEER . Anyway hope this helps lata.....

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

oh yeah NEVER NEVER NEVER buy cheap $50 tires. i learned my lesson. switching from $100+ tire to a $50 tire made my civics cornering go from bmw to kia lol. even with all my suspension mods, cheap tires totally killed the way the car drives.

heres what i have:

1. fuzion Hri tires (used to have bridgestone turanza which were awesome but discontinued now)
2. tokico HP blue and eibach prokit
3. ES front lca bushing and rear sway bushing, you can always do more like the rear control arms and front sway bar.
4. rsx rear sway
5. neuspeed upper strut bar (one piece)
6. SPC camber kits front/rear

Jayg8881

Hey has anyone tried the Progress Alignment kit, cause I am going to get a camber kit soon and I was wondering which to get. This kit is for sale at Dezod motorsports for 220. Plus I have heard some bad things about bolt cambr kits. Basicly if you drive hard the lose there camber. Well that is what a guy said in another forum. Oh and Falken tires are really good I had some old civic and the impressed me.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

FAIL!

beefier endlinks are not going to effect the way the sway bar works. an endlink is an endlink. the only time you can make the endlinks cause a different result out of the sway bar is if you change the length. The reason they sell beefier endlinks is cause some people got it in there head that with a bigger sway bar the OEM endlinks would snap or break. The fact is OEM endlinks breaking is a lie!!! Honda endlinks are really tough and can hold up to pretty much anything you throw at it or with it. the only time you might want to run the beefier endlinks is if your running the ASR 32mm rear bar but that comes with endlinks.

the whole beefier endlinks thing is bs and great way to make money off some that doesn't know any better or is paranoid that the stock ones might snap.

BJanzen

iTrader: (2)

I thought I remember Gearbox saying he went through a couple sets of OEM endlinks? I guess Gearbox can confirm this or deny this. Just a random thought from a long while ago.

mrplow123456

I love suspension stuff and I'm too poor to get the best parts so I'm stuck with blown oem struts, neuspeed strut bar, and some kuhmo tires. One thing I wish though, was that I could still have my Dunlops that came on these rims. It was one of the best handling low profile tires I have ever experienced and performs exceptionally well in all elements, even after the severe wear placed on them by the previous owner. I never once had my tires spin due to lack of contact. Alas, those days are over and trying to get the Tein coilovers.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

ive broken oem endlink once with rsx 19mm bar yes (usually only one side breaks and you can feel it in the steering that something bad happened). my second set of oem didnt break but i switched to better ones shortly after. i now use dezod front and rear endlinks no problem. maybe it depends on driving style or some other factors. its just me but the oems dont look very sturdy. its a weak design and small daimeter connecting rod.

mrplow123456

I tend to disagree with this. Coilovers are expensive and have a lot of options like you said, but a set of struts with coilovers is typically around the same price but has less options and its just like car audio, you need to match your springs with you shocks just like amps to subs. A lower spring rate then the strut will cause the strut to fail/give out/whatever prematurely. Whereas the other way a higher spring rate will cause the ride to be very rough and the struts unable to do their job.

I prefer the adjustability with the coilovers bc its a good way to experiment and learn plus if you ever want to use the features, they are there and you don't have to abandon the previous setup and buy something new. Plus buying from a large name, they have everything matched right and have a lot of tech support to learn about this stuff.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

yeah the price for full coils vs separate parts is pretty similar. i paid $280 for used tokicos, $100 for used prokit springs, $125 for new camber kit, and maybe $350 for install and alignment. i guess thats a bit cheaper but with new parts it would be few hundred extra. adjusting is great but i would be way too lazy to change it.

mrplow123456

Yeah I agree with you, unless you race and need different setups all the time its a lot of something most people don't need. But at the same time it's nice for when you want a softer ride, or even stiffer ride, you can change it or have a shop do it without costing an arm and a leg to get all new springs and shocks again.

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

the reason I say don't go with coilover is there is too much adjustabilty for the average person. they are perfect for the guy that runs the same lap time day in and day out no matter what the conditions are. But I can't count how many times I have gone to Auto-x and seen somebody spending the whole time trying to adjust the coilovers to get faster lap times when really they need to work on there driving first. I had a buddy with a miata that would not stop playing with his setup trying to get better time. Finally I stopped him after one of his runs cause he was complaining that he didn't have it set up right I told him to give it to me and I took it out and knocked 6 secs off his time thats a **** load in auto-x!!!

Moral of the story: stop messing with **** and just drive!

and thats why coilovers are bad IMO too much adjustability the average person that has them won't just buy them and leave them alone they will want to mess with them all the time.

Coil overs are better than anything else but it's kinda like the darkside it's easy to get sucked in


as far as the endlinks are concerned I will agree that they are pretty flimsy looking I have never had one break on me and I throw my car alot hard then almost everyone. I am now faced with the problem that the car stalls from throwing it to hard cause the pickup in the gas tank starves from throwing it. before I was starving the oil pick up and killed one motor from driving so hard. I know have that fixed with an oilaccumulator but that should give everyone a general idea of how hard my car gets pushed. I'm used to fixing broken **** lol

Zzyzx

Dollar for dollar, you'll end up with better components if you piecemeal the suspension together in most cases.

Sure a set of lowering springs + Bilstiens may cost as much as your run of the mill pre built "coilover", but you can be dam sure the Bilstiens are a better damper then what you'd get with that "coilover".

Zzyzx

Dollar for dollar, you'll end up with better components if you piecemeal the suspension together in most cases.

Sure a set of lowering springs + Bilstiens may cost as much as your run of the mill pre built "coilover", but you can be dam sure the Bilstiens are a better damper then what you'd get with that "coilover".

mrplow123456

Are you sure about that? Most companies don't offer coilovers as a convience but because most are capable of offering more then what standalone struts can offer. Take Tein for example. their basic coilovers, MSRP $900, offer more then most reasonably price struts do. And I know Bilstein is a very good company but it's hard to find a lowering spring that matches the quality of them.

Plus there is a reason that only the best things are coilovers. Anyone who does autoX or any kind of severe handling will tell you it's more convient for a whole package that can be adjusted together. I'm not saying every coilover is good, but chances are, you buy from a reputable company, you will have no problems racing on them.

gearbox

iTrader: (95)

just get a set of tein superstreet and call it a day lol. my biggest concern with combo coilovers is eventually the shock part will go bad and then youre stuck getting whole new assemblies or sending the old ones to tein for rebuilding. vs just buying a set of new shocks and throwing them on.

metalviper

iTrader: (13)

Id have to strongly disagree with your statement. coilovers are not that versatile. most ARE made as a convenience and most are marketed as an all in one package, which is far from the truth when seeking performance. if you ever look at damper dynos youll see teins are no match for koni, bilstien, and other high end damper systems.
have you ever done autox? honestly if i wasnt so lazy to replace my rear disc brakes with drums, i would compete as stock. its not the car its the driver that wins races. you cant just put an expensive suspension system on and expect to be fast.
as for the endlinks, ive done a few autox events with a rsx anti-roll bar and never snapped my endlinks. ive been running a progress bar but havent autoxed with it yet and ive had no issues.

katzenjammer84

Bud, the main reason behind selling them isn't because the Honda's are prone to snapping. Your torsional rigidity is only as good as your weakest component. You can have a large swaybar with stock endlinks and realize little benefit because the stock endlinks can only handle so much load before "twist." The stock endlinks are the equivalent to a wet noodle.

This is fairly common knowledge, or so I thought. In addition, many aftermarket end links are also adjustable, whereas stock units are not.

metalviper

iTrader: (13)

sure the endlinks are the weakest link. but dampers and travel will also effect the load that a specific endlink will have to handle and for what period of time. and how do you know that the endlinks cant work within the upper limits of load transfer of you suspension? ive used my stock endlinks with a 19mm types bar, and a progress bar. Ive been able to tripod the car numerous times on and off course. that means theres lots of load transferred to the outside rear wheel. that seems pretty strong to me. I dont plan on upgrading my endlinks until they do break. which may happen when i get softer rubber

Jayg8881

Hey Viper, are those KSport upper pillowball mounts hard to install? Because they say that they are for their coilover setup, because I don't want to use the standard camber correction bolts (I have heard that they will shift out of camber Adjustment).

bomerman19

iTrader: (1)

The endlinks don't tend to flex as much as you would think since the way they are angled they tend to mostly get pulled straight up and down. Maybe this summer I can slide the video camera up into the bumper when I Auto-x so I can get video footage of of what the endlink is doing I have seen a video of a honda before but that was back in like 2002 or 2003 and I can't find it.

Also If progress doesn't feel like the stock endlinks are sufficient enough they would included some in like they do on the 24mm adjustable bar. If any one would know what the stock endlinks can take it would be progress especially considering the stock honda sway bars.


Little secret: those OEM stock bars that go on the civic their not made by honda. hehehe

Curiouz_G

iTrader: (1)

ya'll scared the OP away ahah.

OP, if your still reading, i say just some sticky rubber on your stock rims for now and go out and play around. after all, no matter how good your suspension is, its no use if theres no contact with the pavement