Boggie1688

So my cars lowered on ksports, has roll center adjusters and rear 22mm sway. This weekend I went to an autox event, and my car had so much body roll. I am on the stock alignment, is this why I got so much roll? I need help trying to eliminate body roll anyone have suggestions?

Heres a pic of the roll.

tuningmycivic

iTrader: (11)

that really doesn't look that bad...i'd look into a stiffer spring rate and maybe a bigger sway for the front

HyeHonda05

iTrader: (7)

try a bigger front sway...look for either the RSX Type-S 23mm or an 01-02 25.4mm Front sway...the civic sway is wayyy cheaper too...I got mine for 30 shipped......also, try to do an autocross alignment....I dont know what the settings would be but I am sure some of the members where would be able to tell you what to set your camber and caster and your toe......

Boggie1688

Stiffer springs are a possibility. I'll look into that.

Doesn't a front sway promote understeer?

tuningmycivic

iTrader: (11)

depends on what your other settings are.. you could always let off the gas a bit to fix that...

jonathan_20

shock more stiff, race coil with high spring rate,strut bar neuspeed etc..,sway bar progress technologies 24mm full ajustable ( come with tie-bar ) , X brace 4 points or 6 points, remove isolation, spare tire, light mag (oem= very heavy...SI= 18-19 lbs each ) try all that first!

enjoitofer

c pillar bar?

Da1lyDr1ver

iTrader: (6)

a C-Pillar bar is useless for our cars. it does more good for hatchbacks than anything else.

anyways, i'm sure he already has his spare tire out of his trunk if he's autocrossing in that pic. i'm assuming he has to pass tech inspection and thats one of the things they look for in terms of safety.

i also dont see how removing insulation from the car will help with body roll either.

just get thicker sway bars (progress for the front and RSX-R for the rear). a strut bar (neuspeed), and consider getting a springs with a higher spring rate.

Zzyzx

Ok, Your setting the car up for compitition.... So, One thing you need to learn is to Ignore bodyroll as it is a Very poor indication on how well or how poorly a car is handling. The second is to absolutly, Positivly DO NOT INCREASE THE STRENGTH OF YOUR FRONT ANTI-ROLL BAR. that is unless you want more understeer and the amazing ability to put less power down coming out of turns.

What should you be paying attention to????

1. How is the car handling? Too much understeeer? Does it feel like your hitting the front bump stops? If you are running in to understeer, where in the turn is it happening?
2. Watch your tires for roll over, how much? What PSI are you running and whats your alignment look like.



BTW, Chassis braces do precisely squat when it comes to chassis roll.

Zzyzx

Just some shots of my car in compitition running substantually softer springs then you and a 15.9mm front anti-rollbar for compairision.

filipinoguy05

iTrader: (1)

thats some serious roll! how fast were you going on those turns? looks pretty cool though!

metalviper

iTrader: (13)

wow i wana do this so bad!!!

Zzyzx

Its autocross so somewhere between 0 and 60 mph

Kevbotron

iTrader: (1)

crazy roll... and in stock seats too!

Boggie1688

Thanks Zzyzx for confirming that increasing the front sway only increases understeer.

The car never hits the bumpstops, never understeers, and handles pretty damn good. I'm running the falken azenis rt-615s at 34psi all around. With the ITR rear 22mm sway the car feels pretty neutral. If anything it helps the car rotate a lot better.

One of the problems I had at that autox was that it felt like the tires were not gripping. I dunno if it is because I didn't get a chance to warm them up...etc, but the whole time I had this eerie feeling the car was kinda slidy.

What kinda alignment do you recommend?

Zzyzx

For compitition on this car... At least -2.5 Deg camber on the nose. a comprimise for street + comp would be between -1.5 and -2.5.


34 psi with the stock alignment seems low, Have you chalked your tires to see how much roll over your getting? Back when I was running the RT-215's on a stock aligment I had to run around 45-48 on the nose to keep the tires from rolling on to their sidewalls too much. Once I got a more compeditive alignment on it (-2.5) I was albe to drop the front PSI to around 35-38 depending on the track. The rears pretty much stayed in the 30-32 range. For more rotation you could try increasing the rear psi above that.

as far as the tires feeling slipery... were you being smooth entering and exiting the turns or were you being jerky with the controls?


What Region are you running with in SOcal?

Zzyzx

All you have to do is find out what SCCA region is near you and contact the Solo 2 Chair. They'll be able to get you all the info you need on the sport.

Boggie1688

What alignment are u running in the rear? The Azenis run out fast as hell so I'm getting some Ecsta ASX for DD and a new set of rims for the azenis. I'll try a compromise between the stock and full race alignment and see how that goes.

I don't jerk the wheel...I'm pretty damn smooth with it. I don't know if it was the track condition or what. Maybe I'm just use to canyon roads and how the turns are long and car kinda squats down. Autox tracks are soo tight and back to back.

Boggie1688

Zzyzx

Right now I'm running about -0.5 on the rear and zero toe. On the front I run 1/32nd toe out.

Autocross is a tricky sport, you'll have to learn to transistion the car quickly and smoothly to be fast. And dont be afraid to nail a cone here or there, as if you dont hit an apex cone evey once and a while... it just means you arnt getting close enough to the cones. I use to clip the cone edges with my rear tires in Slaloms... the course workers hated me for that, as they werent penaltys and they'd have to check nearly every cone in the Slalom.

Zzyzx

Yeah the car looks fine in those turns. More negitive camber & more seat time!

zps2004

iTrader: (4)

If you want a set of stiffer rear springs let me know because i have a set of 9.3kg rear springs for the k-sports.

tuningmycivic

iTrader: (11)

^ lmao @ sig

Boggie1688

Yea I know you got springs for sale...I just dunno if I wanna go through with it or not. I don't know how the car will respond with stiffer springs.

zps2004

iTrader: (4)

It will rotate a lot better. If i was still going to run with my coils i would definatly put them in. ksports come with soft springs in the rear. well for autocrosing and track anyway.

Zzyzx

Curious, but how many events have you run with the current setup?

Boggie6868

iTrader: (1)

Sorry new account, Boilermaker banned my other one because he couldn't handle a joke.

Anywayz, this is my first autox event. But I've had this setup for well over a year and done a fair share of testing it on the canyon roads. I really love my setup and i'm trying to make changes that would make it feel completely different.

Zzyzx

"Testing on Mountain roads" isnt testing the cars handling. as you'll never get the car to 10/10ths.

Run a dozen or so autocross events and you'll have an entirly new perspective on driving a car at its limits.

Boggie6868

iTrader: (1)

Oh yea agreed, I never run more than 7/10s on the mountains.

Thats why I've been trying to get into autox soo badly. Even at the event that I just went to I was afraid to push it hard. Not to mention I'm not use to having a thousand or so people watching. I'll be trying to hit up some events in so cal when I go home for summer. Boy I can't wait.

MrXclusivE

iTrader: (8)

bigger front sway bar? are u kidding?

look into getting camber plates to be able to run more negative camber, also look into increasing the presure in the front tires because most of the roll could be coming from the tires, if u have adjustable struts u might want to try setting them on a stiffer setting. also when taking the turns try jerking the wheel a bit if you're not getting the grip u want, it helps gain more momentum towards where u want the car to go, there's many more things that can be done like getting stiffer springs etc... but I wouldn't go there if I were u. You can't get rid of the body roll 100%, and its not really a huge deal, u'll learn how to live with it after u get some more experience, I used to be paranoid about these things too lol, just get out there and have fun