Intruder

Hey all. I wanted to post this because there hasn't been much discussion about front sway bars on this forum. Decreasing the size of the front sway bar will decrease understeer in the same way increasing the size of the rear bar will.

Now 01-02 Civic EX Coupe's (possibly others, not 100% sure) have a 25.4mm front sway bar while the 03 Civic EX Coupe has a 15.9mm. After adding the 19mm rsx rear sway bar last year and still being unhappy with the handling I decided to try the new front bar (a few other member os this board have done this as well). Three weeks ago I installed the new front bar and the corresponding bushings (uses the same mounts), threw my summer tires on, set my koni's, and went for a week-long driving spree.

The handling is amazing, it is actually a bit more oversteer than I wanted, but once I "re-learned" the handling of the car it became a blast. Turn-in response is greatly increased and lifting the throttle mid-apex can bring the rear tires around on you in a hurry(in the rain this caused a very scary sideways moment ). The overall straight line stability of the car is not compromised, but sudden movements can unsettle the car (i.e. dodging a deer) and cause a bit of wig-wagging to get back on track.

All in all this mod made the biggest improvement in handling to date for the cheapest price ($52 in parts at your local dealer). Installation took 1.5 hours and is fairly easy to do once you get the midpipe unbolted so you can remove the bar.

Zzyzx

Did that a few months ago and ran at the Phoenix SCCA Solo 2 national tour in the rain.... The car was VERY stable and even with an underpreped car, when it was wet out I was with in .5 seconds of the leaders.


I acutally ran the car with out a front anti-roll bar for a month.... Very fun. Oversteer was just a throttle lift away.


Current setup for STS autocross:
Eibach Pro Kit springs
19mm rear anti-Roll bar
16mm Front Anti-Roll bar

Only missing shocks at this point.

Sickboy

iTrader: (3)

I have an 03 and actually went in the opposite direction by adding a 25.44 mm front swaybar after using the 15.9mm and the RSX 19mm combo. I agree with Intruder about everything except that at high speeds (i.e. 80mph) there is definetly less wandering and more front end stability with my new 25.4mm front bar. The trade off is obviously way too much understeer. 16/19 setup is good for autocross, especially with better springs. 25.4/22 setup I believe would be best for the street on otherwise stock suspension.

Zzyzx

Eventually I plan on going the 16/22 mm route

Sickboy

iTrader: (3)

^Then get some race springs, over-inflated firestones in the rear, and have some fun.

Boilermaker1

iTrader: (16)

I need to tinker with this some more i guess. I'm still running 25.4/19, but my springs are 503/559.... I was actually fighting a little oversteer last time I had the car out. But before I change that, I need to get the tire pressures dialed in and figure out what the car actually will do. Then I'll mess with that.

half_n_half17

I've got both progress bars, 27mm in the front and 22 in the back and i really like the way it handles. I had the 25.4 in for a while, but i prefer the stability the bigger front bar brings. Yeah my *** doesn't slide out anymore, but then i'm not autoxing... i guess it all depends on how you're going to use your car. BTW the 27/22 combo is way way better than the stock set up for the 01-02 ex coupes!

Zzyzx

^^ true, Its all about how you want the car to handle and what you can control.

Me, Since I've learned to drive (Thanks to autocross) Tossing the rear end in a corner isnt really a big deal to me any more. I've learned how to control it and learnd what not to do.

This is why I'm weary about reccomending a 22mm Rear bar to people that A. dont have that much experiance driving at the limit and B. Have a relitivly un modified suspension.

tcostello3

I'm gettin' ready to put new swaybars on the wifes Ep3 this weekend. Will her factory ones fit right onto my 03 Ex Coupe?

Intruder

The rear bar will fit definitely, I do not know about the front one (but it probably won't fit).

Your wifey drives the ep and you drive the coupe, sounds like such a fun honda family

Zzyzx

The Rear will fit .....

tcostello3

It'll be a very happy Honda family as soon as I can get a K20 into my Ex. This year must go! That's why I keep doing all the good stuff to hers. All I'm doing this year is rear disc conversion (thought about stealin' hers ) & suspension stuff. Hers is so quick&tight but I love my Coupes and will never own a hatch (unless we get a real typeR)

Thanks for the input. I may try the front and see how it goes. Looks for results Saturday or Sunday.

Roy

I have the 25.4/22 setup with goldline and koni. It's an ok setup. But i'm still not happy with the way the car pushes on mid phase. I'm thinking of trying a smaller front bar, but 16 is too small.

82801BA

I just wonder if the 25mm front sway bar is solid or hallow. I know that the 15mm sway bar is solid steel and the one RSX has (23mm) is a hallow tube. Wonder what the difference is.....
Anyway, I have 15mm in front stock(ready to put RSX-S strut+spring), 19mm RSX-S sway bar and DC5-S strut+spring in the rear, the car just sits funny(the rear is 2 inches higher than the front)......

Zzyzx

Tortonally there isnt a whole lot of difference between a Solid and Hollow bar. Yes the Hollow bar of equal size will be weaker, but not by much (it really depends on the thickness of the wall on the hollow bar).

Roy, The 16mm bar may be perfect for you. I know I love how my car handles now (16/19), but I'm planing on getting a 22mm (preferably adjustible) rear bar in the future.

82801BA: what Car do you have? cause if itsn not an Si, then the Springs from the RSX may be to long, and there are more favorable spring rates out there. Remember that the RSX was tuned for comfort too. so It really depends on what you are looking for.

82801BA

I think the problem now is with my front still with stock EX shocks. The car just sit unbalanced(sometimes it's just a little harsh). May be the front RSX-S shocks will correct it.

82801BA

And, since the RSX-S and the EX has only 200 lbs difference in weight, I don't believe the car will have any problem to put in any parts of the RSX-S suspension. Correct?

Zzyzx

its more of a Spring length issue, as in the springs on the RSX are longer then whats on the civic (on the front at least), so your car will ride higher. also, I'd do Koni shocks before I went with RSX OEM, the valving on the RSX shocks will not be much higher then the civics.

pbfoot

iTrader: (2)

how is the body roll with the thinner front bar? i mean theres less understeer, but are there any sideffects?

oh, and anyone know how thick the 2003 LX sway bar is? the 2001 ones have the thickness on hondaautomotiveparts.com but the 2003 parts dont have that. i dont know if the EX is the same thickness as the LX on 2003...i know the shape is different tho cause of the header.

Zzyzx

Its not bad, havent really paid much attention to it. as far as sideeffects... To get better tire wear you'll want to run more negitive camber on the front, due to the increased camber change. Thats about it. 2003: all of the front bars were 16mm (I think the sedans had the 22mm front bar, but I'm not sure), 2002 Had a 22mm front bar on the sedans, 25.4 on the coupes, 01 had 25.4 on all.

82801BA

I'd rather go with 15mm in the front, as it is a smaller bar and even the junk yard guy told me that, "you better remove the front sway bar if you want high speed turn"

Zzyzx

Removing the front bar, while fun (I did for about a month) will actually make High speed corners Much more Dangerous, as the Rear end will want to come around much sooner. Its great for autocross, where corners are Mid to low speed, but for a road cours its way too much.

82801BA

So does it mean that HX and DX will be a lot dangerous to drive on highways?

Zzyzx

Grrrr....Stupid double post

Zzyzx

Not nessisairly, as they don't have rear bars either. Remember its not about the size of the bar, its about the roll resistance on the front of the car Vs the rear (Roll Couple) This is going to end up a Long thread If I have to explain Handling Dynamics, Just Read this and this Then ask about any thing else you dont understand.

Oh ya, Techinically the 03+ Front bar is 15.9mm but its just easier to say 16mm

JCap

iTrader: (1)

So what is better for street?

I have a 01 EX and I'm about to go and buy a 19mm RSX bar and a Neuspeed Upper front strut bar. Should I also change my front sway bar? I drive my GF's 1.7EL all the time and love the handling compared to my car.....

Zzyzx

Run the 19mm rear bar for now and see how it feels, if it still understeers to much for you then get the smaller front bar. or a larger rear if you've got the $$$

JCap

iTrader: (1)

cool thanks

Intruder

just an update, after losing the back end on a few turns, and stability problems above 70 mph, I am going to put the 25.4mm bar back on. The car wanders above 70 mph almost as if the caster were out of spec, but it isn't. And I'd prefer a bit of understeer over a bit of oversteer (when I have any weight in the trunk things get really hairy when I turn in)...

Zzyzx

^^ Check your alignment, If the car wanders you may have to much toe out on the front. also if the rear end comes around to quickly you may have too little toe in on the back.