drhawkinz

I was replacing my LCA bushings since they were torn and decided to replace the ball joints since I was in the area and they have 160K on them. I purchased a set of Moog ball joints which have a ring at the top with vertical ridges.



When I tried to press it in to the knuckle it moved a little bit and then was really hard to get any leverage on the ball joint. So I popped it back out to figure out what I was doing wrong. When I did I noticed the vertical ridges were digging into the knuckle.



Does this seem normal to anyone or is something wrong?

RIPSAW

Do you have something to measure with like a caliper to check OD on the old as compared to the new?

drhawkinz

unfortunately nothing that is that accurate.

RIPSAW

Sort of looks like you got it in far enough that it was at the full diameter of the new part when you look at the grooves. Of course, it's going to groove all the way down which if you had a hydraulic press would probably be no big deal. Obviously a lot more than the original. Guess Moog errored on making sure they were tight. Years ago I was rebuilding my 69 Firebird and the aftermarket were so oversized, I had to grind a bevel. They were however pressing in a stamped plate and went. Since then I stick to OEM replacement parts for most repairs. You really need to get you a dial or digital vernier caliper from harbour Freight. Only $20.00. Usually on sale for $10.00 all the times.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

Those ridges help the ball joint secure itself. Wheel studs have them also.



I installed Moog on mine and didn't have any issues with them. The snap rings are an added protection to keep it from popping out. I don't believe OEM ball joints have a snap ring.

drhawkinz

Ended up getting a set of Duralast ... Duralast ball joints from auto zone and they went in about as expected. I went by pep boys to see if they could push them in and some bushings and the guy said they didn't do that kind of work and were closing in 40 min so they were in clean up mode.

But I ended up going to harbor freight and getting a 12-ton press so we'll see what happens tomorrow.

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

I have that press, its a decent press. I recommend the bearing press kit they sell also, it worked great for my wheel bearing.

mikey1

you need to measure the hole before installing new ball joints,

read this thread....and read the service bulletin i have attached in that thread....(courtesy of ezone).....

https://www.civicforums.com/forums/3...nts-again.html

emich

snap rings are good idea on aftermarket ball joints. Ones on my civic 2001 a ball joint without snap ring popped out hitting the abs ring on the axle above and destroying it.

mikey1

snap rings will not prevent this, they are not there to hold the ball joint in place

ezone

Right, the snap ring cannot support the weight of the car in the event of a failure.

Sometimes I like reading what I wrote years ago LOL

RIPSAW

Actually, the snap ring may be more a faux list of benefits for sale. As designed, even if it got loose in the bore, the joint is not coming out of there as long as the nut is on the end.

Being loose would play heck with alignment and noise but so will a worn out ball joint. Guess it would beat itself out from the top if you did ignore it long enough and drive the Baja run on ever wacky Thursday or routinely drive over curbs like some do on here..

drhawkinz

yeah it's pretty nice. would be nicer if it was taller, I'm 6'4" so the work space is below my waste so just sat in a chair while operating it. haha

Yeah I saw the service bulletin. I was worried about getting the moog ones in since they were so tight. Then if they drive those groves through the entire knuckle and something happens where I have to replace them again. Is that going to prevent the next ball joint from sitting in there as tight as possible.

I put the Duralast ones in (rubber boot was def not as thick as Moog's, but they weren't dry rotted like the factory ones haha) and got everything back together and the steering/suspension feels pretty awesome!

GolNat

iTrader: (7)

So what is it for? Snap rings can withstand forces in excess of 8000 lbs and are used for securing axial loads. Did Moog not add it for this intention?


The castle nut should have stopped it from coming out. No cotter pin?

edit- Like RipSaw said, it should not come out because of the nut but will be loose and not able to align.

emich

Snap rings will prevent this. They hold the ball joint in place preventing it from going up. The weight of the car here doesn't play any role. Think about it.

RIPSAW

I am thinking real hard and since the wheel is on the ground attached to the knuckle, the car is pushing down on the lower control trying to pull the ball joint on thru the knuckle in the way it was pressed in from the top. On the rebound however like when the wheel is hanging, it would pull in the way of the ring. However, you are correct that the ring will keep it in place and the lower control rod going up till it bottomed out on the knuckle. However, it's not going to let the wheel flop out so long as the nut is on the ball joint. Could be one of those is the sky falling or is the ground jumping up. Also, I am just thinking and was wrong on a couple things over the years. This may take a NASA engineer. I am only a Nuclear Engineer

emich

He He The sky wasn't falling. The incident with my civic 2001 I describe earlier happen while I was turning and going over a speed bump. It was the original Honda ball joint. Since then I use only ball joints with snap ring.

ezone

The lower ball joints are not weight bearing on this setup, the strut/spring carries the weight.

Even with that said, there is still a significant amount of force the ball joint is subjected to, and the interference fit between knuckle and joint must be able to withstand every bit of those forces.

IF the opening in the knuckle is worn enough that the ball joint slips and it must rely on a snap ring to keep it from going all the way out (or up, into the CV joint) then there is a huge problem and that particular ball joint should never have been installed in that particular knuckle.

Honda has an oversize joint listed in the bulletin linked earlier, along with a way to gauge the opening for the joint.
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I've seen other situations where a joint did not fit tight in a control arm, the snap ring could not keep it in place either. I tack welded the joint to the arm in that situation.

drhawkinz

the strut pushes the knuckle into the lower control arm. When the wheel is attached and on the ground the knuckle can't push past the tire so the downward force into the LCA would be less with the car on the ground than when the car is off the ground I suppose.

In order to dislodge the ball joint you would need to reduce the space between the knuckle and the LCA. A massive down force could push the knuckle down into the LCA so that it has no choice but to pop back up out of the knuckle (assuming the LCA is strong enough not to rip out of the car). Maybe if a truck T-boned you right at the wheel you could get these kind of forces.

I guess like wise you could have a massive force push the LCA up into the car, into the knuckle, into the strut. Say for example if you ran over a curb at pretty good speed or ran over a fire hydrant. And that could possibly dislodge the ball joint as well.

Regardless, the OEM one without a snap ring was in there for 13 years and still needed to be muscled out with the removal tool. So not sure how important this snap ring is or if it's just there to give you a warm fuzzy feeling.

.....i hate when we all post something at the same time hahahha

mikey1

emich

I am glad we are on the same page regarding how thinks works.

mikey1

i don't think you have very good reading comprehension skills